Thread: Hip hop bellydance fusion performance

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc3ZcSPOicM]YouTube - Hip Hop Bellydance (Genieshanu & Detention)[/ame]

I always wanted to do fusion. But this is pretty interesting. They combined ancient artforms - melyan dance and bellydance
and have modern and hip hop on stage

I really wish we can do more fusion like this. And i feel hip hop is quite similar to bellydance. Correct me if im wrong :)

..g.:

wellllllllll,

what did you like about the clip?

and why do you think that hip hop is similar?

they were certainly well received!



I

I don't know that I would call that fusion. More like a variety show. The bellydancer only did bellydance.
I agree that sometimes bellydance and hip hip can be similar. A lot of bellydancers take hip hop moves like popping and locking, ballet, jazz, etc. and put them in their dance.
A lot of hip hop dancers also take moves from other dance forms and use them, so authentically, they are nothing alike, but now almost everyone is doing some type of fusion in dancing.

I also find some dancers are very against fusion. Maybe its difference of opinion. But do you think fusion is a good or bad thing? Does it destroy the original artform? Or does it give a new platform for creativity. I always wanted opinions guys :)

I am not a fan of hip hop. But i like the variety they did on stage. Its like ancient art and modern dancing together on stage

A friend of mine said that fusion is a terrible thing. But i dont quite agree with her

I don't think that was fusion. I think that was a bellydancer, and a hip hop group. The dancers did their own styles, so there was no "fusion" going on. It was fun to watch though.

You'll find a lot of discussion here and on other forums about fusion. The universally agreed upon thought, however, is that to fuse different forms you need to be proficient in ALL the forms that you are using.

One of the big problems in our dance right now is that new dancers are starting out taking "fusion" classes without the fundamentals in the styles they are trying to put together. And it is difficult to define what is being fused.

Lets use "tribal fusion" as an example. Sometimes what is called "tribal fusion" is actually a dancer who has trained only in ATS (a group improvisational dance form) performing the ATS movement vocabulary as a solo. Or performing solo in a cabaret style costume. Or an oriental dancer performing raqs sharqi in a tribal style costume. Or adding movements from any one of a variety of Indian or SE asian or Persian or sub-Saharan African or Spanish or Caribbean dance styles wearing any kind of costume they want to wear. Or using traditional raqs sharqi movement or ATS movement vocabulary with non-middle eastern music.

It works when everything is pulled together into a unified whole. It doesn't work when it looks like bits and pieces pulled from here and there.

Souzan

Like Souzan said, the biggest complaint I see about fusion is that it's being done by people who don't really understand one or both of the forms being fused.

For instance, a bellydance student with only a year or two of classes decides to try a Spanish fusion number, so she puts on red and black ruffly skirts and waves some fans around. But she doesn't really understand either form, so it just looks like a mess.

Real spanish/bellydance fusion, done by someone with years of experience in both forms who understands their intersection and differences can be mesmerizing.

Often 'fusion' is used as an excuse for 'laziness.' A common example is a student of a couple of years who likes ME dance but hasn't spent time getting comfortable with ME music, so chooses to dance to music she already knows -- rock and roll or disco, for instance. Those performances are hard to watch.

It's important to learn about the dance in some depth before trying to 'fuse' it with something else.

I am not going to name any names but a teacher here in the DC area did a hip hop bellydance fusion performance with a group of ladies. Long story short - MANY people were offended and one even approached the teacher and stated she was appalled because this teacher chose to dress the students in "hip hip stereotype" gear complete with silver teeth....

I saw it - I was an audience member - and it was not really my thing but I know the ladies enjoyed it.

To each their own....

Originally Posted by ravenadesigns

I am not going to name any names but a teacher here in the DC area did a hip hop bellydance fusion performance with a group of ladies. Long story short - MANY people were offended and one even approached the teacher and stated she was appalled because this teacher chose to dress the students in "hip hip stereotype" gear complete with silver teeth....

I saw it - I was an audience member - and it was not really my thing but I know the ladies enjoyed it.

To each their own....

I'm sorry ... WHAT??? Being from the area, I'd love to know who that was!,m::

Makeda

Toya - I can tell you one thing. She no longer teaches in the area ;-)

Lisa Zahiya (who won 2008 Tribal Fusion Bellydancer of the Universe with a hip hop fusion routine-I think) will be teaching a hip hop fusion class in Reston, VA in November. Check out TirazDanceNetwork for info.

I am not much of a fusion-lover, but I really like hip-hop with belly dance if it's done well.

Ravena, I can only guess who you are talking about...

Originally Posted by SandraDances

Lisa Zahiya (who won 2008 Tribal Fusion Bellydancer of the Universe with a hip hop fusion routine-I think) will be teaching a hip hop fusion class in Reston, VA in November. Check out TirazDanceNetwork for info.

I am not much of a fusion-lover, but I really like hip-hop with belly dance if it's done well.

Ravena, I can only guess who you are talking about...

Lisa was one of my first teachers ... I still consider her my teacher, actually ... and I miss her terribly. She is a fabulous dancer and I encourage any and all to take a workshop/lessons from her.

Makeda

Well, then you will want to come to our workshop, then!!!

I am a big Lisa Zahiya fan!

Eeeek! Ravena! I was there, too, but I think I must have repressed that memory. It was both badly done AND offensively presented.

Unlike, say, this:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WuXV9FrEgw]YouTube - Ebony's Just Begun - hip hop bellydance[/ame]
and this:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9drcpyuRxys]YouTube - Stutterer - fusion bellydance[/ame]
and this:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdWT8XUUnm0]YouTube - Like a bellydancer[/ame]

I think these three very different pieces by DC's own Ebony are great examples of fusion done right. She's a highly accomplished dancer with a strong background in both genres, and she fuses them thoughtfully, with skill, good judgment, and verve. It's often hard for a dancer's stage presence, charisma, and humor to come across on a YouTube video, but this woman has It and I think it shows even in this format. Love her!

Originally Posted by SandraDances

Lisa Zahiya (who won 2008 Tribal Fusion Bellydancer of the Universe with a hip hop fusion routine-I think) will be teaching a hip hop fusion class in Reston, VA in November.

Very cool! Lisa's wonderful.

(Welcome back, Sandra! Hope the weather was cooperative and you had a great vacation. :shades:)

Many times I have seen fusion become "con"fusion when not done with full understanding of all the dance forms involved. I saw a dancer in Chicago perform a "tribal/flamenco/classical Indian dance" piece. Not knowing much about each one of those myself, it was an overly confused dance and I had no way of telling what was supposed to be what. I think that the videos posted of Ebony are some very good examples of good fusion. Kudos!

Phaedra
Madison Multicultural Dancer Center
http://www.madisonmultidance.com

I let 2 students try it, if i remember right not only did it come out horrible, but some bhuzzers lit my bedlah on fire while clanging loud zills in my ears
""""""""""""""""""""""""""'''''--------------,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,___________________ ______>>>>>>>

Crash and BURNNNNNNNNNNNN

Zana: LOL! Another lesson in what NOT to do

I must say - Ebony is amazing! I recognize all the spots where the videos were filmed but have never seen her. I need to get out more....

the posts here are correct, if you're going to fuse two dance forms the dancers needs to understand both. I came from hiphop before starting bellydance and recently fused them for a show. It was fun and the theme was "out of the box" where each performer danced something out of their natural element.

It was fun to fuse the two but fitted the element/theme of the night.

Here's my clip: [ame="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5id_Se_OyI"]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5id_Se_OyI[/ame]

Thanks for posting those clips of Ebony. I'd never seen her before but I really like her groove. When I get to cut loose and not be a "proper" bellydancer I tend to go to the hip-hop end of things myself. She did it right. I've noticed that at the performing arts conferences I go to, the hip-hoppers and b-boys/girls are always really drawn to my bellydancing and start making some cool connections between the forms in terms of how we isolate, hit the beats and ride the rhythms. I've participated in some really fun collaborations. Not everything needs to be fused and not everything gets fused well, but I do enjoy a good collaboration between hip-hop and bellydancing!

Nadira and Ebony, both beautiful.

That music in Ebony's first clip sounds to me like good ol' funk. I didn't know that was considered hiphop music, I like it. Being a George Clinton fan and all.

Nadira's take on the Natacha Atlas song was the best I've seen of that music.

can't get a look at the clips for some reason right now, but unless it's really well done, I have a hard time with fusion, particularly with hip-hop. I've never seen it done well, only by people with little BD training who mixed club moves with bd beginner moves

For me, a lot of hip-hop movements are hyper-sexualized (think rap videos) and I'm doubtful about how well they compliment BD moves, or what kind of image they project.

Secondly, so much of hip-hop/rap that is used for these fusions or that is popular is extremely misogynistic or just far too crass, which really brings the dance down quite a level. I don't understand how that's really an appropriate or tasteful message to send about BD or the performer themselves

I liked Ebony. She uses an old school hip hop style.

I agree with Dunyah, the first clip was funk, in style and music. the second clip didn't look to me like it had any hip hop in it. I loved the third clip.

Nadira, I really liked your performance but I didn't see any hip hop in it except for the Aaliyah style outfit. But I don't know tribal very well so maybe that's why I didn't recognize what wasn't tribal.

Originally Posted by najla86

For me, a lot of hip-hop movements are hyper-sexualized (think rap videos) and I'm doubtful about how well they compliment BD moves, or what kind of image they project.

Secondly, so much of hip-hop/rap that is used for these fusions or that is popular is extremely misogynistic or just far too crass, which really brings the dance down quite a level. I don't understand how that's really an appropriate or tasteful message to send about BD or the performer themselves

That is true that main-stream hip hop is very hyper-sexualized but there is plenty of good hip-hop out there (think- Common, Talib Kweli, Dead Prez, etc.)
Some of the music used is m isogynistic and crass but so is some of the Arabic Pop music we use. I should hope that dancers choose to not perform to anything harmful to our image. But I supposed that may not always be the case.

Originally Posted by najla86

can't get a look at the clips for some reason right now, but unless it's really well done, I have a hard time with fusion, particularly with hip-hop. I've never seen it done well, only by people with little BD training who mixed club moves with bd beginner moves.

The clips were actually pretty good. I really enjoyed the bits I watched.

Overalll, I think the reason many people including myself aren't a big fan of fusion is that it's rare to see really good fusionistas. Why? Because it's very difficult to master not just 1 but 2 dance forms. For vanilla Raks Sharki or Orientale, sure, we also see plenty of beginners but there are far more masters that we can see. Because there are so few good fusionists - and they all seem to inspire a ton of not-so-great copies which is what we see most of the time, the general idea is that fusion dance is going to be amateur.

Originally Posted by najla86

For me, a lot of hip-hop movements are hyper-sexualized (think rap videos) and I'm doubtful about how well they compliment BD moves, or what kind of image they project.

Secondly, so much of hip-hop/rap that is used for these fusions or that is popular is extremely misogynistic or just far too crass, which really brings the dance down quite a level. I don't understand how that's really an appropriate or tasteful message to send about BD or the performer themselves

I've been dancing socially to hip hop for over half my life, but I wouldn't fuse it because I think to successfully fuse it, you need to have studied as a dancer. From the hiphop classes I've taken, I know that it's a very challenging dance style. It's way more than just club moves.

for your last two paragraphs, I do see that angle. As I said in another thread, I don't mind dancing to it in a nightclub or at home, but when I perform for the public, I want them to see middle eastern dance with middle eastern music. [Yes, I do gothic bellydance, but only in gothic bellydance venues. ] I had considered doing a performance to hiphop and/or regueton before, for a bellydancer audience, and I just really had trouble finding a song where I could stand behind the lyrics. With Arabic music, it's so hard to get the translation that we don't have that quandary - not to mention, oftentimes our audience isn't fluent in Arabic either. Actually I disagree that most hip hop movements are hyper-sexualized. There are a lot of different styles, like popping, snaking, etc. Sometimes I would find in my hiphop class that the femininity was missing - that's the extent that sexualized moves didn't show up in my instructor's choreography. He was a guy teaching mostly women, and I think he tended to avoid that kind of movement - that said, there were plenty of moves left after those were removed.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

That is true that main-stream hip hop is very hyper-sexualized but there is plenty of good hip-hop out there (think- Common, Talib Kweli, Dead Prez, etc.)
Some of the music used is m isogynistic and crass but so is some of the Arabic Pop music we use. I should hope that dancers choose to not perform to anything harmful to our image. But I supposed that may not always be the case.

Probably the hiphop that most people have access to is the hyper-commercialized stuff, which tends to stay in the safe topics of sex and violence rather than the dangerous subjects of politics.

Still blows my mind that Sarah Jones can't be played on the radio, when all she did was quote what WAS playing on the radio.
(ref: Sarah Jones :: The Washington post)

Originally Posted by Zana

Eeeek! Ravena! I was there, too, but I think I must have repressed that memory. It was both badly done AND offensively presented.

Unlike, say, this:
YouTube - Ebony's Just Begun - hip hop bellydance

I think these three very different pieces by DC's own Ebony are great examples of fusion done right.

Oh my god, she's CUTE!!! I love her hair. great clip..

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD9yuKPIZ_g]YouTube - RaksArabi Drum Solo Belly Dance (Directed by Crystal Silmi)[/ame]

I like this fusion

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

Probably the hiphop that most people have access to is the hyper-commercialized stuff, which tends to stay in the safe topics of sex and violence rather than the dangerous subjects of politics.

Still blows my mind that Sarah Jones can't be played on the radio, when all she did was quote what WAS playing on the radio.
(ref: Sarah Jones :: The Washington post)

"Your Revolution" is one of my favorite poems. I think I should perform a fusion to that.

that first clip by ebony actuallly rocked my world!!! it was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good!!!