Thread: How cool would cuban dancing be mixed with some ATS...

I saw fanastic latin dancers from Cuba recently and the way those girls shake and wiggle their asses and hips was just amazing! I tell ya know if classes were held for latin/cuban/salsa dancing of that style here I would be just as hooked.

Has anyone seen this style of carnival dance mixed with belly dance??

I had the good fortune to take from Arish Lam of Puerto Rico last year; He was a co-workshop instructor being hosted in Virginia, along w/Aziza of Montreal! He does a fab salsa/bellydance fusion!!!

Cuba doesn't have carnival. There are many different dances and music. Is there any way you could ask someone to what music they were dancing? It would be interesting to envision what you saw and might want to combine. :)

This is an adaptation to Merengue, to which many spanish-speaking nations in and along the Caribbean listen and dance.

[ame=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pzl3tfUzubs]YouTube - belly dance !merengue[/ame]

Were you thinking of something like this? :)

I am afraid that ATS and Cuban sounds like a form of fusion that is best avoided.

I was thinking that ATS and Cuban mixed together might start to look dangerously like modern Egyptian if you did it right. Careful, now.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I was thinking that ATS and Cuban mixed together might start to look dangerously like modern Egyptian if you did it right. Careful, now.

..l;,

Seriously, we don't *have* to mix everything with belly dance just because it involves hip movement or because it's exotic or cool. We can do both!

I've recently returned to tango and I love it. Do I want to mix it with BD? No fear. To me, the only reason you *would* mix would be if the music said so. Merengue and salsa can go nicely with some of the Latin-infused Arabic pop from a few years back, so in those cases, yeah, it's a valid choice. Can't see ATS working as a base though.

Originally Posted by Goldenpear

This is an adaptation to Merengue, to which many spanish-speaking nations in and along the Caribbean listen and dance.

YouTube - belly dance !merengue

Were you thinking of something like this? :)

Thanks for posting that. Very good!

Originally Posted by Goldenpear

This is an adaptation to Merengue, to which many spanish-speaking nations in and along the Caribbean listen and dance.

YouTube - belly dance !merengue

Were you thinking of something like this? :)

Wow. That looks like the finale of a huge show. I like the way the choreo includes all the dancers in different costumes. I assume they were different acts in the show. Cool piece.

yeah, Merengue is popular with latinos but I wanted to point out that its not Cuban.

Cuba has many different types of dances, many influenced by the african slaves that were brought there by the Spanish. There are religous dances that stem from the Yoruba tradition. Secular dances include the Cha-cha-cha, Danzon, Mambo, and Rumba. Cuban also dance salsa and have recently embraced reggueton.

Here are some traditional examples of Cuban dancing:

Orisha:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q7Z9UPIswY]YouTube - Orisha Dance in Cuba: Yemaya[/ame]

Traditional rumba:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO2Wk0r9wac]YouTube - Cuban Rumba - professional dancers in Havana,Vancouver[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByrIM4lpbcs]YouTube - Cuban Rumba dancing in Havana, Vancouver[/ame]

Cuban Salsa: (osbanis is a genius! Check out his dvds)
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YE_QFzce68]YouTube - Osbanis and Rafael with Farita - social dancing cuban salsa[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIrL41p5vLM]YouTube - New Rumba DVD: Osbanis - Iris De Brito[/ame] (Rumba dvd)

Cuban Son:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dEbmylqW30]YouTube - Son - Popular Cuban Dance - Cutumba[/ame]

And before you fuse, Please please be sure to study Cuban dances and its music in depth. You'll realize its not just ass wriggling. That way you can represent our country well and be innovative at the same time.

Originally Posted by Goldenpear

This is an adaptation to Merengue, to which many spanish-speaking nations in and along the Caribbean listen and dance.

YouTube - belly dance !merengue

Were you thinking of something like this? :)

Fatinah, I had my first salsa/merengue classes when I was living in London 16 years ago - I'm sure there will be Latin/Caribbean dance classes somewhere near you. That way you can start learning these great social dances and have fun with them, without feeling the need to mix them with ATS or whatever. Wait till you've learned how to do ATS first!

I am sure you can find classes for all kinds of Latin dancing, but just like the various middle eastern dance forms, there are many flavors of Latin dance from ballroom to street.

Somehow I can't wrap my mind around fusing ATS and Caribbean dance forms. One of the charms of Caribbean dance is the spontaneity and individualism, which is quite the opposite of highly organized, collective form like ATS.

But it would be an interesting experiment. Actually I could see the start of a great comedy piece with an ATS troupe suddenly going nuts and then returning to the formula.

Souzan

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Seriously, we don't *have* to mix everything with belly dance just because it involves hip movement or because it's exotic or cool. We can do both!

I've recently returned to tango and I love it. Do I want to mix it with BD? No fear. To me, the only reason you *would* mix would be if the music said so. Merengue and salsa can go nicely with some of the Latin-infused Arabic pop from a few years back, so in those cases, yeah, it's a valid choice. Can't see ATS working as a base though.

Wants wrong with bellydance and ATS that everyone wants to fuse?ATS is already a fusion albeit one of long standing. But blur lines anymore and you get a.....blur..

I agree that I have seen some excellent fun fusion. reggaeton with belly dance for instance and there are certainly flamenco influences in ATS but that's what they are accents and influences.
But oh have I seen some shi$e in the name of fusion...why do we keep on going there? Are we not proud of raw bellydance and good 'ol ATS?

At the present I am more concerned with Anousha's revelation to be that only FCBD is really ATS and what am I to call the rest of improvisational tribal style?

Wold it be wrong of me to suspect that some dancers fuse to disguise something

I adore Cuban music. Went to concert with Buena Vista social club. had a blast dancing in the corner and dreamt of fusion for the next 24 hours before realising that it just wouldn't be poss to do justice to both styles!!
Why do we have to fuse everything we like........ As far as I'm concerned fusion tends to destroy at least one of the elements concerned (sometines both) Just enjoy what you enjot and LEAVE IT ALONE!

Find lessons, get music, DVDs, find out what it is you love about it and explore it! Latin dance classes are almost EVERYWHERE, although you often need a partner.

You're a new student to belly dance, cross training with any other dance is going to improve your abilities in both and your awareness. No harm in that!

BUT!

It's important first to learn the separate forms separately so you really get a knowledgeable and muscle-deep understanding about what is similar, what is different, and what appeals to you in each.

Only after that does it make sense to start finding ways that one can more directly be used as accents the other...accents! intelligent baby steps...

And after all that if you still want to fuse, you can do it in an informed manner.

If you want to get Cuban music and bop around your house and dance bellydance to it, do it! It might help you really understand and access certain bellydance moves in ways that more traditional bellydance music doesn't yet reach you....because as a beginner it can be hard to find the more traditional music that does it for you...but you should also be bopping around more style specific music and reaching for that connection.

I don't know about ATS, but I have seen and taken workshop in Latin and Middle Eastern Fusion.

Dalia Carella has a style that she teaches and performs that she calls "el Mundo" that's a beautiful fusion of ME and Latin, especially Cuban. And a beautiful dancer in NYC, whose name I forget, did a beautiful workshop for Morocco in a style she called "Arabianna". They're both great fun!

As has been pointed out by many experts, the music of Spain was greatly influenced by the Moors. The music of Latin America was greatly influenced by the music of Spain. (When I was in Valencia a few years ago, the blend of old and new Spanish music on the radio everywhere kept me dancing). Therefore, the music of the ME is NOT dissimilar to much of Latin music.

So, I guess the fusion has been done-and by far greater dancers than I!

Kitty

Originally Posted by lizajuk

At the present I am more concerned with Anousha's revelation to be that only FCBD is really ATS and what am I to call the rest of improvisational tribal style?

This was discussed heatedly on tribe a while ago.

While I was at first taken aback by this idea, I am at peace with it. It doesn't change what people do, after all - and for yinz overseas, the A is a bit of a geographical anachronism anyways ;-)

Originally Posted by Souzan

Somehow I can't wrap my mind around fusing ATS and Caribbean dance forms. One of the charms of Caribbean dance is the spontaneity and individualism, which is quite the opposite of highly organized, collective form like ATS.

But it would be an interesting experiment. Actually I could see the start of a great comedy piece with an ATS troupe suddenly going nuts and then returning to the formula.

Souzan

Actually, Latin dance is quite formulaic, there are certain steps done to merengue, to rumba, to mambo, to salsa, to cumbia etc that remain the same, no matter what you do to embellish. For example the step to merengue is the same whether you add a shoulder shimmy on it or not.

I'd argue that it's as stylized as ATS and that's where you'd find the difficulty in fusing the 2.

While I agree with the individualism expressed, most Latin dance is partner, which requires verbal and paraverbal communication between the dancers, a touch on the shoulder, a slight push at the waist and an ability to interpret the muscle movements to anticipate what your partner is going to do next. This is where I think it would be a fantastic fusion with ATS as that's a skill that tribal dancers have to cultivate as well.

The charm of that great clip posted above by Goldenpear is that it stays true to both forms, to my eye, merengue AND middle eastern dance. That's the best fusion of the 2 that I've seen.

Originally Posted by steffib

This was discussed heatedly on tribe a while ago.

While I was at first taken aback by this idea, I am at peace with it. It doesn't change what people do, after all - and for yinz overseas, the A is a bit of a geographical anachronism anyways ;-)

Steffib. can you me link me to the discussion?

No frankly I 'm not bothered if I am told I have not to call what I do ATS.
I can understand that Carolena does not want what she does diluted and she is perfectly entitled to say so. It just what do we call what we do if we have learnt mainly from Paulette and Domba? I don't want to misrepresent.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZDZsnYs09g]YouTube - Manhattan Tribal, Tribal Salon Part 1 of 2[/ame]


Now watch this and who would want to fuse anything with it?
Are they not wonderful?
Tell me 'bout them if you know them
And what was that wonderful music in the first half?

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Steffib. can you me link me to the discussion?

No frankly I 'm not bothered if I am told I have not to call what I do ATS.
I can understand that Carolena does not want what she does diluted and she is perfectly entitled to say so. It just what do we call what we do if we have learnt mainly from Paulette and Domba? I don't want to misrepresent.

Paulette was a member of FCBD before she moved to Portland, Oregon and started the Gypsy Caravan. At first there wasn't much difference between their styles, except that GC had a live band. Later, GC got into fusion in a big way and they seemed to fuse Indian, Flamenco, and modern Urban (don't know what to call it) stuff with their original format.

Mind you, I'm not an expert at what constitutes Tribal dancing, but I have seen these groups live, and I've seen a lot of the stuff that is called Tribal fusion in the RB or BDSS style, too, and they are all different.

Domba fused African dance with ATS. They basically did African dance in ATS costumes, at least they did the time I saw them perform live. They also had live music.

So I guess both GC and Domba could be called Tribal Fusion, for whatever that term is worth. Which is not much in my book, (because the term is so imprecise). GC and Domba were/are excellent performers and always put on a quality show.


Anyway, sorry for the tangent.

Dunyah Thanks for that.
I suppose the workshops I took with these people did concentrate on ATS so I know I have seen later footage of the groups and their more "fused" stuff but most of what we do comes from their earlier instruction and that I suppose is closer to FCBD when improvised.

la de da de da....this forum creases me sometimes!

Originally Posted by fatinah_bellydance

la de da de da....this forum creases me sometimes!

Que?????????????..g.:

Its just really funny watching a topic get so serious sometimes!

Originally Posted by lizajuk

YouTube - Manhattan Tribal, Tribal Salon Part 1 of 2


Now watch this and who would want to fuse anything with it?
Are they not wonderful?
Tell me 'bout them if you know them
And what was that wonderful music in the first half?

Love this clip!

Originally Posted by fatinah_bellydance

Its just really funny watching a topic get so serious sometimes!

If you want a lighter, more "OMG, yes!" group, the belly dance communities on live journal might be what you're looking for.

We've got deep love for the dance. When new folks say they totally loooooove the dance, but want to rush into drastic fusion, it's like someone looking at our longtime love and saying "She is so gorgeous! Just imagine what plastic surgery could do with her!"

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Now watch this and who would want to fuse anything with it?
Are they not wonderful?

Yes, they are wonderful, and I say this as a non-fan of ATS. But I've seen so much horrible "tribal fusion" in the last few years that well-done ATS is a tremendous kick for me. Kadife, you might actually turn me on to this style!

When new folks say they totally loooooove the dance, but want to rush into drastic fusion, it's like someone looking at our longtime love and saying "She is so gorgeous! Just imagine what plastic surgery could do with her!"

That is a great simile :)