Thread: Tightness in Shoulders

Since I'm new here, first some background to help you see where I'm coming from as a dancer.

I studied ballet as a child, jazz and modern as a teen, yoga in my early twenties, and then after a brief love affair with jogging and spinning during my mid-twenties that went against everything I learned in dance and yoga that if it doesn't feel good, don't do it, I stopped working out regularly. Over the past several years I've focused on my job and social life instead of my health, so I've lost touch with my body, but now that I'm in my early thirties and starting to see and feel the aging process begin and the fat accumulate, I know I have to live a more balanced life and take care of my body. Belly dance seems to be the perfect fit for me for both health and personal reasons. I'm very new to this dance form and have been learning on my own. Unfortunately, working with a teacher isn't an option for me at this present time, so I'm hoping I can get some good advice here until I can get some face to face instruction.

Continued in next post due to length...I want to explain it thoroughly :)

When dancing, practicing yoga, exercising, or doing something where I am 100% focused on my body, I have good posture. However, I have fairly large and heavy breasts, so when I'm not thinking about it, I tend to slouch. The weight of my chest pulls my shoulders forward. My shoulders are very rounded, as a result. Carrying myself like this for so long has caused a lot of tightness in my shoulders, upper back, and upper arms, even when I have good posture.

Upper body moves that originate from the core like rib shifting and undulations don't give me any problems, but moves that originate from the shoulders or upper back do. I know it's because of the tightness.

Two very simple things, a shoulder shimmy and a snake arm, are a challenge to me.

With the shimmy, I look either very stiff or very sloppy, depending on how I approach the movement. I can do a very sharp, definite shoulder isolation, but as soon as I try to shimmy, it all stiffens up. If I just completely relax, I can feel the action moving down my spine, and I can feel the muscles in my waist wanting to do the work instead. I stop and try it again in the shoulders, and it just looks sloppy. (Less like a belly dancer, more like a lap dancer). It's a completely new way to move since there's nothing quite like a shoulder shimmy in ballet, jazz, or modern where the shoulders remain relatively still and are used mainly as support for the arms and head. Such a basic move shouldn't be holding me back like this, though.

Secondly, but probably more importantly, snake arms are uncomfortable for me. I know that if it hurts, don't do it, but this is a very basic move, and I want to make it work since I can make my arms look very pretty. When I get to the point where the shoulder reverses from the upward to the downward movement, I hear snap, crackle, pop in my shoulder. It doesn't hurt as much as it's just really uncomfortable. I know this may sound silly, but how I know this is a problem from the tightness in my shoulders is because if I take a shower right after I get out of bed in the morning when I'm still stiff, I have the same problem when I lift my arms to shampoo my hair. If I shower after I work out and all my muscles are loose and limber, there's no snap, crackle, pop when I'm washing my hair. I've tried approaching snake arms as a ballet dancer by really extending the arms from deep inside the shoulder all the way out to the finger tips. I can move them up and down with ease and can do little snake arms (a la Swan Lake) and there's no problem, but as soon as I try to round out the motion and make it bigger, the discomfort returns.

My lower body and core work is progressing quite well, but it seems like arms and shoulders are going to be what I need to spend extra time on.

Has anyone else experienced something similar? What can I do to loosen the shoulder area? Any advice, suggestions, or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

My ahoulders used to hurt when I did snake arms also. I try to get massage and chiropractic work to keep everything loose and where it belongs. Also, toning up the muscles really helps as well as concentrating on posture.

A good technique to loosen the shoulder area is to do shoulder circles. Just shrug, then rotate your arms to the back, then down, then the front, then up again. Do a bunch of those, then reverse and do a bunch reversed. Then try one at a time, first going one direction, then the other.

I suggest doing them slowly, and pay attention to the sensations. Explore your range of motion. Just as in yoga the best place to hold your pose is where you're feeling an edge but not pain, so I'd suggest here. Try for an edge where it doesn't feel easy but doesn't feel like the brink.

Don't worry if the range of motion is small at first. Just do what feels right. Over time, you can expand the range of motion as you get used to moving this way.

The above exercise is what I use to loosen my shoulders and upper back any time they're tight - after having my hands on a steering wheel a long time, or after hunching over a computer. Both snake arms and shoulder shimmies should be easier after a few weeks of diligently doing this exercise.

Another good exercise is a neck stretch. GENTLY drop your head to your left side, as if trying to bring your ear down to your shoulder. Obviously, it won't make it all the way down, which is fine. Now, hold it there long enough to explore the sensation of stretching in the opposite side of your neck. People sometimes place their hand on their head to enhance the stretch a bit, but be VERY careful if you do this. Don't apply much pressure, just let the weight of your arm encourage your head to stretch a little more, and keep your arm supported so that you don't put excess weight on it. After holding this stretch a while, gently raise your head back up to neutral, then repeat on the same side. For a variation, drop your head to one side, then slowly roll it to the front, and then to the other side - ie, a slow half circle. Let it make crescents back and forth. Don't roll it across the back, though, because the grinding on your vertebrae is not healthy for your spine.

By the way, it's possible to be a lovely belly dancer without ever doing snake arms. If you watch videos of Egyptian dancers, you won't see snake arms.

Originally Posted by Heatherlynn

With the shimmy, I look either very stiff or very sloppy, depending on how I approach the movement. I can do a very sharp, definite shoulder isolation, but as soon as I try to shimmy, it all stiffens up. If I just completely relax, I can feel the action moving down my spine, and I can feel the muscles in my waist wanting to do the work instead. I stop and try it again in the shoulders, and it just looks sloppy. (Less like a belly dancer, more like a lap dancer). It's a completely new way to move since there's nothing quite like a shoulder shimmy in ballet, jazz, or modern where the shoulders remain relatively still and are used mainly as support for the arms and head. Such a basic move shouldn't be holding me back like this, though.

Please don't feel like you are the only person going through this. I find in my Beginner classes, the shoulder shimmy one is the hardest moves for my students to get. Since I started teaching about three years ago, one thing I've been struck by over and over again is the tightness and lack of motion range my average student has in their shoulders. At least you can do the sharp shoulder isolation (what I would call a shoulder thrust)!

I have a private student who came to me with very slouched posture, rounded shoulders, etc., and it took her 8 months of one on one lessons and a ton of practice at home to get rid of it. One of the things that helped her was to start walking with shoulders back and chest lifted all day, in her everyday life. You have to retrain your muscles and your mind to think that your shoulders belong in a different place than you've been having them for years. Be patient with yourself as this can be a very long process.

One stretch that I recommend is pictured here http://www.njsurfingclub.com/shoulder/s2.gif. Don't force anything, but just gently push towards the door opening, and hold the stretch for a few minutes, not just 30 seconds or so.

If you can eventually get yourself to a live instructor, it will absolutely help as they will be able to tailor suggestions based on what they are seeing happen with your body.

With the shimmy, I look either very stiff or very sloppy, depending on how I approach the movement. I can do a very sharp, definite shoulder isolation, but as soon as I try to shimmy, it all stiffens up. If I just completely relax, I can feel the action moving down my spine, and I can feel the muscles in my waist wanting to do the work instead. I stop and try it again in the shoulders, and it just looks sloppy. (Less like a belly dancer, more like a lap dancer). It's a completely new way to move since there's nothing quite like a shoulder shimmy in ballet, jazz, or modern where the shoulders remain relatively still and are used mainly as support for the arms and head. Such a basic move shouldn't be holding me back like this, though.

I can only just about achieve a shoulder shimmy after 6 years of dancing because my shoulders are super-stiff and super-tight. The only way I have got to the point where I can get something going is through persevering with gentle shoulder stretches and generally working on upper body strength and flexibility day in and day out. I am much more aware of trigger factors where my shoulders are concerned and I daily assess my desk layout and seating arrangements at work to make sure that I'm not being lazy about this.

I also go regularly to an acupuncturist because my shoulders can suddenly lock and become very painful.

My best and easiest advice is to try and keep your neck and shoulders as warm as possible in daily life. This part of the body is often exposed to drafts and although we usually don't notice them, this doesn't help much. I am seldom without a funky scarf round my neck these days.

Hi I haven't got any further suggestions to the exercises suggested just what I hope are words of comfort. I had exactly the same problem when I started dancing, my posture was awful and I had very stiff shoulders and upper back. I was (and still am despite a reduction op) very large chested on a small bone structure so understand what you are saying about slouching. Try as I might I found the shoulder shimmy really hard. People couldn't understand why I said moves like that hurt. I think when you're used to carrying that weight around you over compensate and hold a lot of tension in your shoulders, it's then completely alien to relax those muscles and especially to lift the chest when you spend most your time slouching to try and hide it and because of the weight. I found it a physical and mental effort - if that makes sense.

Now the comfort bit, as I progressed and was successful with other moves I learnt to relax more as I was dancing. This helped loads as did just warming up and cooling down the neck and shoulders properly. One day it just clicked I don't know where it came from other than practise but it did. When I tried to analyse that now to tell you what I did I found I coudn't. I really think it was regularly doing the exercises suggested above and just relaxing with the dance more and more.

Now my posture is better in general and I don't have as many problems with stiffness and pain in my neck and shoulders, so if you perservere with the dancing I'm sure it will help. My advice is not to give yourself too much of a hard time about it, congratulate yourself on what you can do well - don't give up the specific exercises and practice, but relax when you do them. This move will only hold you back if you let it one move does not make a dancer! There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Where are you? I wish I could get you into my studio for just one hour, I could SHOW you all this SO much easier than typing it all!

First, the tight shoulders. Rounded shoulders (and the usual corresponding head-forward) is SUCH a common issue. The most important thing to remember is that it's the FRONT of the shoulders (and the chest/pectoral muscles) that are tight. The upper back muscles may have spasms and *feel* tight, but in reality they're overstretched.

So the solution is to strengthen the upper back and stretch the chest/front of shoulders. You can strengthen the upper back with many gym weight machines, or push ups, or many other exercises.

Opening/stretching the chest and front of the shoulders is critical. My favorite stretch -- stand in a doorway and place your forearms on the doorframe, so your elbows are straight out from your shoulders. Step forward with one foot and press your weight forward so you feel a strong (but tolerable) stretch through your chest and shoulders. Hold for at LEAST 30 seconds. Then switch the foot that's forward and do it again.

Snake arms - Loosening the front of the shoulders and strengthening the upper back will help tremendously, along with practice, of course. But some students who have bursitis or arthritis or other shoulder pain have to do a modified version. I have those students roll their shoulders while attempting to hold the hands still in space. As the shoulder rolls toward the back, the elbow lifts slightly. Finding it difficult to describe here!!!

Shoulder shimmies: I teach this movement as coming from center anyway, the shoulders are relaxed and stay opposite each other while the ribcage twists. In fact, I don't tell students it's called a 'shoulder shimmy' until AFTER they've got it, because the minute I use that term they start wonking the shoulders back and forth. Aziza Said writes about it in great detail here

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Where are you? I wish I could get you into my studio for just one hour, I could SHOW you all this SO much easier than typing it all!

First, the tight shoulders. Rounded shoulders (and the usual corresponding head-forward) is SUCH a common issue. The most important thing to remember is that it's the FRONT of the shoulders (and the chest/pectoral muscles) that are tight. The upper back muscles may have spasms and *feel* tight, but in reality they're overstretched.

So the solution is to strengthen the upper back and stretch the chest/front of shoulders. You can strengthen the upper back with many gym weight machines, or push ups, or many other exercises.

Opening/stretching the chest and front of the shoulders is critical. My favorite stretch -- stand in a doorway and place your forearms on the doorframe, so your elbows are straight out from your shoulders. Step forward with one foot and press your weight forward so you feel a strong (but tolerable) stretch through your chest and shoulders. Hold for at LEAST 30 seconds. Then switch the foot that's forward and do it again.

Snake arms - Loosening the front of the shoulders and strengthening the upper back will help tremendously, along with practice, of course. But some students who have bursitis or arthritis or other shoulder pain have to do a modified version. I have those students roll their shoulders while attempting to hold the hands still in space. As the shoulder rolls toward the back, the elbow lifts slightly. Finding it difficult to describe here!!!

Shoulder shimmies: I teach this movement as coming from center anyway, the shoulders are relaxed and stay opposite each other while the ribcage twists. In fact, I don't tell students it's called a 'shoulder shimmy' until AFTER they've got it, because the minute I use that term they start wonking the shoulders back and forth. Aziza Said writes about it in great detail here

Lauren - that would be a wonderful and beneficial focus for a DVD. You would be the ideal person to produce such a much-needed product.

If you want a small "controlled" shoulder shimmy consider using one that only moves the shoulders rather than twisting your torso. Lean against a wall, place your hand just in front of your shoulder, and touch your shoulder to your hand. If you have difficulty with this you may need outside help - such as sports massage (to distinguish from the "other" sort).

You can build a shimmy on just the shoulder moving forward, although I think it is better with some backward movement as well. Sometimes it helps if someone touches you between the shoulder blades to help you identify which muscle will pull it back.

With the snake arms it is safest to work in the natural line of your shoulders - which could be 10-20 degrees in front - rather than in the middle of your torso. Try bringing them forward a little.

Also, do you have any old arm or shoulder injuries? I received a belt many years ago and the muscles in my right arm are a little shortened. As I have a lot of things to stretch, this one has never been addressed.

Wow, what great advice! I've learned something from everyone.

Another good exercise is a neck stretch. GENTLY drop your head to your left side, as if trying to bring your ear down to your shoulder. Obviously, it won't make it all the way down, which is fine. Now, hold it there long enough to explore the sensation of stretching in the opposite side of your neck. People sometimes place their hand on their head to enhance the stretch a bit, but be VERY careful if you do this. Don't apply much pressure, just let the weight of your arm encourage your head to stretch a little more, and keep your arm supported so that you don't put excess weight on it. After holding this stretch a while, gently raise your head back up to neutral, then repeat on the same side. For a variation, drop your head to one side, then slowly roll it to the front, and then to the other side - ie, a slow half circle. Let it make crescents back and forth. Don't roll it across the back, though, because the grinding on your vertebrae is not healthy for your spine.

Shira, I've been so focused on my shoulders and chest that I've completely neglected my neck area. I should've known better, but being out of practice is to blame-that's why I'm here. So, I've tried the crescents back and forth, and it loosed up the entire upper back area. I also did a forward head drop and then arched my shoulders back a little. It gave me an amazing stretch.

Laura and Lauren, I will definitely try the door frame stretch. I've never seen this one before and I really feel the stretch.

kashmir, after reading your advice, I did try standing against the wall to get a better idea what my shoulders are doing. I definitely think doing this until I get it will help.

Lauren and kashmir, both of you described snake arms perfectly. I think I may be rotating the arm a little too much.

Thank you to everyone. The advice and words of encouragement were exactly what I needed. I can take this advice into my practice now. I get that I need to work on my everyday posture, too. I compartmentalize myself physically. I can be so graceful and aware when I'm dancing but during my everyday life I shuffle my feet, slouch, walk into things, trip over my feet, etc. I just need to be more aware of my body all the time. This is going to take a lot of work, but it will be worth it.

Originally Posted by Heatherlynn

I can be so graceful and aware when I'm dancing but during my everyday life I shuffle my feet, slouch, walk into things, trip over my feet, etc.

..l;,..l;,..l;, Oh, isn't that true for a bunch of us? A couple of my students and I are all very clumsy in daily life, and as we trip, stumble, and spill things we look at each other, grin, and say "Can you believe we're dancers?"

Seriously, though, I stumble and spill a WHOLE lot less now that I'm dancing and yoga-ing on a daily basis.

Remember that you are new to this and these are muscles that you haven't been using. It takes a little bit. I was studing by myself for a year and a half before I started classes so I know what you are going through. Let the movement be small at first - it is okay. Your range of motion will get better as your muscles become accustomed to the movements. (always stretch before and after tho). Also, shoulder shimmies and snake arms LOOK like a beginner move and simple but are much harder in real life so it is alright if you don't get them off the bat. Just keep trying, it will happen.

Welcome to Bhuz! There's just so much great advice here that I don't have too much to add other than, dang, we could be twins! I also studied ballet and jazz as a kid. I got introduced to belly dance in my late teens while in college. Grad school, work and life happened--I stopped dancing (although I still worked out now and then in the gym). In my 30's I came back to belly dance and don't plan to ever stop. I'll be the crazy old lady in the wheelchair doing snake arms.

I also dealt with very large breasts and arthritis of the spine. Fortunately, I was able to qualify for a breast reduction and am in far less pain now. I still slump over my keyboard for 8 hours a day and really feel it in my neck and back. I try to remember to stretch (the stretches mentioned in this thread are really good) throughout the day--maybe once every hour. I find this helps me release some of the tension before I go over to teach belly dance at night.

I start every class with lots of stretching and warm up before we begin to dance. I'm guilty of skipping this when I practice alone, at home, and boy do I ever pay for it! The body has to be warmed up and stretched out before using it to perform dance movements.

Before my surgery, I tried physical therapy. They taught me the "doorway stretch" described above along with several others. A good physical therapist could really help you.

Another stretch that helps open up the chest is quite relaxing. Roll up a bath towel to form a long roll (kinda like a Tootsie Roll) and use rubber bands to keep the towel from unraveling. Place the towel roll on the floor. Then lie down on the floor with the towel roll directly under your spine (vertical/parallel to your spine). You may want to use a pillow under your head. Bend your knees so they are pointed up to the ceiling with your feet flat on the floor (to take the pressure off of your lower back) and then spread open your arms. Relax and breathe. You can also cross your arms over your chest then very slowly and gently rock side to side on the towel roll. I used to do this while watching t.v. at night.

Good luck to you and hang in there. It just takes time. :o)

On snake arms, try angling your arms somewhat forward of the center of your ribcage. It releases the tension in the shoulders and still looks nice.

As for the posture thing, I had the same problem. I have a solution :)

Try this:

Stand with your hands at your side. Take your energy and reach down into the ground (mentally) and 'grasp a handfull of soil'. As you grasp, rotate the inside of your elbows to the outside, or palms from in toward you to facing out. As you do that, feel how your shoulders rotate back and your ribcage lifts? Hold the shoulder and rib position, release the arms, and breathe. This is a perfect upper body posture.

Let me know if you don't get it and I'll find another way to explain it. It worked miracles for me!

I think the tightness in the shoulders comes from the bad posture so this should help the whole situation.

Amira

I am going to say something which will sound mean and like soemthign your Aunt Tizzy would say. . .

Buy yourself some better bras and sit up straight! And stop being ashamed of what the good Lord gave you! (okay, that last part is an assumption that part of the reason you slump is trying to hide your assets. Many women do. Also the posture you have stated screams DON'T NOTICE ME!!!! just some feed back to think about)

part of the struggle is that if you continue to reinforce the behavior / activities which caused the problem to begin with, all the work you do to change the results is going to take twice as long and twice as much work.

The proper bra is so incredibly important. And as a DD myself, I know how hard and frustrating it can be to find! But if it is properly fitted, the weight is more evenly distributed and the tendency to slump is somewhat alleviate.

Sitting up straight , proper posture is then the challenge. It becomes about being conscience about what is going on in your body. For a while it'll be annoying, because you'll be doing something and realize that you are curving again, and you'll fix it. After a while it'll become second nature.

The stretch which I find to be most helpful, although others may not find it so, is where you clasp your hands behind your bum. Do this standing. and make sure you are in proper alignment. First you gently pull down, which should open the chest area. Then, lift your clasped hands away from your bum. Lift as far as is comfortable. Hold. repeat.

Once you are a little stretched out / warmed up, you can then lean forward, allowing the weight of your arms to pull your arms further away from your back. Feet should be shoulder width apart. Knees slightly bent (or more then slightly if you practice Hatha Yoga)

I usually follow this with verticle and horizontal elbow pulls.

All of these can be done at your desk.

But the most important part to make sure your alignment is correct.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by jaded

Another stretch that helps open up the chest is quite relaxing. Roll up a bath towel to form a long roll (kinda like a Tootsie Roll) and use rubber bands to keep the towel from unraveling. Place the towel roll on the floor. Then lie down on the floor with the towel roll directly under your spine (vertical/parallel to your spine). You may want to use a pillow under your head. Bend your knees so they are pointed up to the ceiling with your feet flat on the floor (to take the pressure off of your lower back) and then spread open your arms. Relax and breathe. You can also cross your arms over your chest then very slowly and gently rock side to side on the towel roll. I used to do this while watching t.v. at night.

To get more stretch also try lying with your arms in the "Hands Up" position - upper arms at right angles to the torso, forearms at right angles to the upper arms. This isn't a 30 second strtech - try lying there for a few minutes at a time.

Another one is to try and release the muscles either side of the spine. You can buy wedges etc - or you can tape two tennis balls together. One ball goes on each side of the spine. Start just above the bra strap. Lie a while. Move the balls down. (But only through the thorasic - leave the lumbar area alone). You must support your head for this one - and start on a soft surface.