Thread: Glute Driven Shimmies: Sell Me.

My comfort zone shimmy is a bent knee quad driven shimmy. I finally got an actual little hip movement/shimmy rather than just a butt twitch out of a glute squeeze by shifting my weight way forwards (I'm pretty sure that is going to aggravate the problems I have with my knees, but that's another story). But I'm wondering: Why? It is more difficult, and so far I'm not impressed by the quality of movement I'm getting. I'm not noticing any problems with layering due to a busy signal from my legs while they do the shimmy work: Are there specific moves/layers anyone finds they can accomplish only by using a glute driven shimmy? Exactly what are they? Is there any actual scientific evidence out there that glute driven shimmies are more safe for your body? I'm wondering what makes them worth the bother. Thanks.

Hi there, shimmies have been discussed lots! Here's my 2 cents.

There are 2 different types of shimmies: hip and thigh. Done correctly they are the only 2 shimmies you will ever need. I promise.

The first thing you need to do is learn to open and close your back- this often is referred to as tuck and untuck your pelvis. What this often leads to is a pelvis stuck into your abdominal cavity and booty way out to space. It's a simple motion of standing up and slightly bending your knees so your bum falls down. This is a TINY movement that when done right will make a world of difference in your dance.

note: by knee bend, i don't mean BEND, i mean so they're not locked or straight. relaxed slightly.
A thigh shimmy comes from standing up (bum is up), and "walking" while keeping your toes on the ground. You walk by alternating one bent knee with one straight, letting your heels come up and keeping your toes on the floor. Weight stays in the middle of your foot! Your legs will go back and forth and your hips will not be moving.

A hip shimmy comes from dropping your bum (letting it fall down, slight knee bend), keeping both feet flat on the floor and walking your knees back and forth. This is where your side to side motion will happen.

If you are going too fast and don't quite have it down yet, you'll lock up and won't get a nice jiggly full shimmy. Start slow, eventually you should be able to go from stand up (thigh shimmy) to bum fall down (hip shimmy) seamlessly.

here's a recent thread about shimmies

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...24-shimmi.html

Here was my reply to the post:


To create a thigh shimmy (one that you can do figure 8's with etc): stand up tall and "walk on the spot" by alternatively bending your knee's. You don't need to tuck your pelvis- let it live where it lives for this one. Let your heels come up while the balls of your feet remain on the ground. When this is sped up (and if your thighs touch) you could start a fire between your legs ;) Eventually you can do this without letting your heels come up.

to create a hip shimmy: let your bum "fall down" or place your hands on your lower back and slide them down, pushing your bum down (and letting your pelvis sit under your body). Your knee's will bend slightly when this happens; let the feet remain flat on the floor and repeat the "knee walking" motion. because you let your bum fall down, it shouldn't be doing any of the work- only jiggling like jello! your knee's do the work.

if you want to make your shimmy tighter, you would use your inner thighs (aductors) and contract them.

lauren: i agree with your comment about taking the bent or straight literally.

ie:if you are fully BENDING your knee's (sqautty dancing) then you are more at risk for hurting yourself. and a good rule to know if you are straightening to much is if you can't straighten your leg anymore, you're too far back. another thing to remember is to not say BACK BACK BACK when doing shimmy drills with students- they are more likely to snap their leg back and hyper extend and OW this makes me hurt just typing about it! instead have them focus on the bend.

Oh, I guess I wasn't clear, I am comfortable with a bent knee shimmy and can do an egyptian shimmy also. I was wondering what exactly was the point of the glute driven shimmy, a la Suhaila style. I'm inferring a "don't bother" with the glute driven shimmy from your post. There are some things I hadn't thought about in that thread, though, thanks for the link.

I teach and perform shimmies from the glutes, obliques, and 2 types from the thighs. I think the main selling point is just variety and choice. Each one gives a slightly different look and feel to the shimmy and frees up other muscles for more complicated things. Most important part is just to find the shimmies that work for you and go for it. If you don't find that glute shimmies add anything useful for your style, then you can safely ignore them :)

My vote is always to work on it and then decide after you have it working, but then I am funny like that - I will work even harder on things I don't like just to be sure I can do them....just in case. ;)

Khalima, I'm like you -- comfortable with both 'standard' shimmies (and a few bonus ones for special effects). I just don't feel a need to learn to shimmy from the glutes. Seems like an awful lot of work.

I could be mistaken, but isn't this mostly a Suhaila thing? Suhaila's technique is surely strong and lovely, and I admire it. But I also admire Dina, Raqia, Randa, Mona, Soheir.... Orit.... Aziza... and I don't think any of them shimmy from the glutes.

Yes, I think it is mostly a Suhaila thing. I'm not a Suhaila girl, but I do think her students tend to be rather badass, so that's what got me started picking at the technique. I recently went to a Moria workshop, and she was using the same technique, and very sold on it. Seems those that use the technique are. I've been told that the technique is better for layering and more safe, but I'm not convinced. It sure does seem like an awful lot of work.

I don't know if they are really that safer- I did them for awhile, but they tightened up my IT band so much that I had horrible hip pain all the time. I'm now starting to get back into them, but I have to be really, really careful that I'm not using my IT band during the glute squeezes, and I have to stretch it out and roll it on a tennis ball all the time. A lot of work for one shimmy!!
The idea behind them is that they free up your obliques so you can layer with other hipwork (omis, fig 8s, etc) and your legs so you can travel. If you can already layer all those, or don't really want to, then I wouldn't worry about them.
Also, a lot of tribal dancers aren't using them anymore. I took a Rachel Brice workshop a few months ago and she's stopped teaching them (along with a lot of the Suhaila format).

Bellydonsah,
Did she mention why she stopped teaching them? Just curious.

At this point, a lot of the instructors where I live are Suhaila-based, and though I enjoy their classes I'm not yet 100 percent sold on her overall program. I'd be curious as to why people stopped using it.

I don't do a glute-driven shimmy, but I have always done fast alternating glute squeezes as part of my conditioning. My first teacher (this was before the Suhaila explosion) promised that they would help strengthen and speed up our shimmies, which for us at the time were all done using the "American" bent-knee technique. I think she was right.

I now use bent-knee shimmies, straight-leg shimmies, and occasionally vibrational or "freeze" shimmies for layering depending on what works best with a particular movement and/or gets me the look I want. I've never had trouble layering or suffered a shimmy-related injury. I also know fabulous dancers who are committed to Suhaila's technique and find it suits them best. To each her own.

Originally Posted by bellydonsah28

The idea behind them is that they free up your obliques so you can layer with other hipwork (omis, fig 8s, etc) and your legs so you can travel.

My experience with Suhaila technique is limited to one workshop about 3 years ago, but this was what she stated as the reasoning behind it.

Ok, this isn't an exact response to the glute shimmy question, more a response to the Suhaila format, which I'm currently learning. I don't have a desire to become certified in the format, but am interested in learning the technique for use in my own dance/style. My general feeling is that it's all about body and muscle control--if you can master this you can probably make your body do just about anything (belly dance related, that is... I don't think it'll make you swim like Phelps!). This is really the reason why I'm learning it--because I think it's "good for me."

Just my take on it, at least.

Strengthening your glutes and learning to isolate and use them are helpful in learning how to speed them up to double time and use them as shimmies but glute work is great for other types of movements as well. Having total control of your glutes will give you precision in your hip drops and variations of hip drops, for example. If you are using them to shimmy you'll also be able to stop your movement faster without the "reverb". If you're really into layering you will be able to layer footwork over your shimmies (ie. chasses, pas de bourres, cross touch, etc) if you feel so inclined. Also, you would be able to layer one or multiple movements on top of those foot patterns. If you are interested in expressing multiple layers of sounds or instruments in your music learning how to control your body and glutes could come in handy. You could move your feet, glutes, and bellydance movements all at different speeds and independently from another as you hear different instruments being played at different tempos and independently from another.
I am by no means expert but I am studying and training for my Level II Suhaila format because I want the freedom of body to be able to interpret the music as I hear it. Sure, I can layer all my movements over knee shimmies or thigh shimmies but I can't move freely with ALL foot patterns and movements like I want to yet. I want to break free from having to "coordinate" my body with my movements.
As to the question: Are these glute shimmies healthier? I think yes....at least to the knees. I find that as a teacher, many, many young people have alot of knee injuries from sports. So putting these shimmies into the glutes puts them in a better, safer place. For myself, I have weak knees and want to avoid dislocating them or causing myself knee problems. As far as the IT band is concerned, as with any training or exercise, it is important to stretch afterwards. This stretching may include rolling the IT band out with a foam roller.
I'm not sure why instructors have decided to not teach the glute shimmies. One reason may be that it is not something that can be learned in 1 workshop. Being able to access, buildup, and utilize the glutes for shimmies takes time and work. So maybe they are foregoing this exercise to be able to get to the real "meat" of what they would like to bring to the students.

Originally Posted by rachelw

Bellydonsah,
Did she mention why she stopped teaching them? Just curious.

At this point, a lot of the instructors where I live are Suhaila-based, and though I enjoy their classes I'm not yet 100 percent sold on her overall program. I'd be curious as to why people stopped using it.

She didn't say. I have heard some rumors that people have been getting injured using the format, but those are just rumors. It's also possible that everyone knows glute squeezes already, so there's not much point in teaching them. Or she may be experimenting with different techniques.
I gotta admit, though, it was a breath of fresh air. I was starting to get sick of every single tribal workshop being a combo of yoga and Suhaila level 1 drills.

What is the IT band and where is it/

Someone please correct me if I am wrong here:

Your glutes are attached to your knee by your "IT" band. Looking at an anatomy book you can see your 3 glute muscles wrapping around your tush and then extending down to your knee.

Oh i've seen contemporary dancers stretch out on that foam roller. i wondered what that was about.
I've just started really trying to build my glutes. I'm doing the Suhaila videos but haven't started doing the shimmies. I figure that i'll do the strength training for a while first to be sure I can even feel which muscles i'm using. I tried to start learning the glute driven shimmy first but i'mpretty sure I wasn't really isolating my glutes much at all. In case it's true that it's safer i'd like to try it. I want to be dancing forever and so i'm gonna do all I can to protect my body,

Ok, I was in Suhaila's dance company, and I can tell you that although I can do glute shimmies, many of the other girls in the troupe could not. Did it affect anything? No. For me, I wanted to move stress from my knees which are weak to my glutes which are not, and because my glutes are so strong, I can layer a shimmy with just about anything, for a pretty much unlimited period of time.

I also studied with Rached for over a year, and she never did teach glute shimmies. Maybe it was just that class and our privates, but she didn't go there. I've worked for years doing 'butt aerobics' on the floor, and that's where I mastered the glute shimmy. I have a cracked right kneecap, so not having to support the shimmy from the quads which rely on the knee, has worked much better for me.

Is one better than another? No, just different. I think it's more about 'I can do something you can't do'. If it doesn't work for you....don't go there. You can find the badass in the dance style without glute shimmies. A lot of what is different in Suhaila's style is the CLEANNESS of the moves. Sharp, powerful, never sloppy, nicely layered. So maybe that's a more valid direction to look in for inspiration.

Amira

Amira, that is really good to hear!

I certainly use my glutes and adductors to produce crisp hip drops, so I am all in favour of *using* those muscles, but I can't for the life of me clench and release fast enough to produce anything resembling a shimmy.

I wonder if RB et al stopped teaching such things in workshops because a lot of people can't handle the straddle? I can't - I have tight hams and achilles and my inner thighs are rather a lot firmer than they once were too now, so I think I would be working so hard on getting the stretch first that the glutes would just languish for quite a while.

Ok, here's another thing about Suhaila-style glute shimmies:

You aren't trying to alternate that fast. You tighten one side of the glutes more than the other, then keep tightening until they vibrate against each other. That's for shimmy/vibration.

For hip shifts, even double time ones, then yes, you use the glutes. But you work up to that speed. For some dancers it takes years to get the speed because the release is so hard. The clench is easy, but release takes more work.

If you need help with drills to increase speed, just holler. I battled with it, and I've got a few tricks that help. :)

Amira

I seriously have this vision, whenever I think of these shimmies, of one of those round bobble-bottoms that some people have vibrating crazily all by itself while all around does nothing. And that makes me think of the popular contemporary children's classic, "The Day My Bum Went Psycho" and I become eight.

i'm a total beginner, and maybe you women could help me..... when i try and shimmy, i notice my top part of my body moves too. i try to isolate my knees and focus from my waist down, but it seems like i can't do it w/o my top body moving either. is there something i'm doing wrong or missing here??

thanks for any helpful info! :)

Originally Posted by Amira_116

A lot of what is different in Suhaila's style is the CLEANNESS of the moves. Sharp, powerful, never sloppy, nicely layered. So maybe that's a more valid direction to look in for inspiration.

Yes, yes, yes!!! So many people think that the Suhaila style is nothing but glute squeezes, but there is so much more to it than that. Totally changed my dancing.

If you wanna share some drills, that'd be awesome ..g.:

Before I found Suhaila I would experience both knee and lower back pain after doing most bellydance workshops. I took my first weeklong workshop with her in 2001 and after dancing 5 hours a day for 5 days, neither my knees nor back hurt *at all*. (My quads and calves are another story...) That sold me on the glute shimmies for sure. If I try to do a knee shimmy now (and I really have to *try* because the glute shimmy is so automatic) I usually end up with a sore back. It is likely that has to do with my anatomy. If you've never had knee or lower back problems and have been practicing the knee shimmy for years, that probably has to do with your anatomy. I do find glute shimmies to be more precise and controlled, and although (like any movement) they take time and practice to build, they do get there. And they make your butt look *awesome*. ..g.:

Originally Posted by missanime

i'm a total beginner, and maybe you women could help me..... when i try and shimmy, i notice my top part of my body moves too. i try to isolate my knees and focus from my waist down, but it seems like i can't do it w/o my top body moving either. is there something i'm doing wrong or missing here??

thanks for any helpful info! :)

Nope, that sounds pretty normal for a beginner. Just keep working on it and focus on lifting your ribcage away from your pelvis.

Originally Posted by ReneeD

Nope, that sounds pretty normal for a beginner. Just keep working on it and focus on lifting your ribcage away from your pelvis.

ok thanks, i'll try that as well :)

Originally Posted by missanime

i'm a total beginner, and maybe you women could help me..... when i try and shimmy, i notice my top part of my body moves too. i try to isolate my knees and focus from my waist down, but it seems like i can't do it w/o my top body moving either. is there something i'm doing wrong or missing here??

thanks for any helpful info! :)

As Renee said, this is normal for a beginner.

I totally agree with what she said about lifting the ribcage -- I'd also advise you to think about bringing the ribcage slightly forward of your hipbones.

Also make sure your knees are staying soft. If your upper body goes *bounce bounce bounce* when you shimmy, you're probably overstraightening the knees.

The more you lift the ribcage away from the hips and soften/relax your legs, the more you'll be able to allow the energy of the shimmy to move down into the floor rather than moving through your whole body.

I'd also suggest practicing slowly -- much slower than the fastest shimmy you're capable of. Working slowly allows you to drill more perfect technique and will help a lot to build good habits and posture into your muscle memory.

Originally Posted by aazura

Ok, this isn't an exact response to the glute shimmy question, more a response to the Suhaila format, which I'm currently learning. I don't have a desire to become certified in the format, but am interested in learning the technique for use in my own dance/style. My general feeling is that it's all about body and muscle control--if you can master this you can probably make your body do just about anything (belly dance related, that is... I don't think it'll make you swim like Phelps!). This is really the reason why I'm learning it--because I think it's "good for me."

It is all about body and muscle control -- at first. But it's way more than that as you continue through. You learn to listen to the music in a different way, and to me that was one of the more exciting things to discover, especially in percussion solos. You start listening to the SILENCE as well as the music. Plus I'm constantly amused by how varying the timing of different movements and traveling steps can tremendously affect the look (and internal feel) of the movement.

This is a fascinating thread.

When I first learned shimmies, I learned the knee-bending type. Later I took some classes with Seana of Ashar Dance Troupe, and she did a lot of glute work. At first I was all WTF? I can't do this! My glutes would literally cramp up trying to do the alternating squeezes -- despite the fact that I drive a "hip out" accent with the glute. But it bothered me that I couldn't do something as "theoretically simple" as contract and release a muscle. So I kept it up at home.

I found that I was never able to do Suhaila's straddle-stretch glute squeezes. That's just something my body objects to. But by sheer persistence... like, doing glute squeezes whenever waiting for a microwave timer to go off!... I was eventually able to master the shimmy. It took a loooong time.

Oddly, I now much prefer that shimmy. I find that it stresses my lower back much less. I can walk with it without feeling like I'm in an earthquake. And I was able to master a 3/4-shimmy using glute squeezes when I couldn't do them at all well using lifts and drops.

Stylistically -- the glute shimmy looks very big and chunky. The Egyptian straight leg shimmy is more subtle and elegant, and the bent-knee is in between.

But I have to second the other posters who say to find the shimmy that feels right to you and one that fits in your style. Then practice the heck out of it.

Sell You? hmmmmmmm think think think..

Okay, simple question. Why would you not want to learn another technique that can add more dimension to your dance?