Thread: live drum solo

I need help with this concept. I have taken a few drum solo work shops, but I don’t really get how one can do a live drum solo and make it look good if they have no idea what accents are coming up. Since you can’t study the drum rhythm in a drum solo, how does one prepare to dance to a live drummer? I have danced a few times to a live drummer in a restaurant but I think I did ok only because, I was traveling a lot, dancing with other people, talking and getting tip ect. When I throw on a new drum solo CD in my home studio and try to instantly dance to it with out listening to it before hand, I only do good on the parts were I recognize the rhythm, but only after a few beat then I know where this is going, but once the drum changes I'm back to fudging around tell I recognize the rhythm. I miss accent all over the place, and if its some unique rift then I'm totally lost. I need some advice. I don't want to chorography my drum solos all the time. The weird thing is I can dance to live music just fine, why should a drum solo be any different?

Putting on CD drum solos you don't know and dancing around to them is great preparation, actually. There are not only rhythms but patterns that tend to repeat, including the placement of accents.

I think it helps a lot to start out watching the drummer. The interaction looks good from an audience point of view, too. Make eye contact with him/her, watch his/her hands at first. Don't try to think, just let your body follow. If you've practiced dancing to many drum solos at home, you'll find that you have a sense of what's coming next even if you can't always articulate it. The drummer will also become aware of your skill level and won't be playing above it.

You can always come back to stand near the drummer and re-establish that connection whenever you start feeling a little bit lost.

For me, at least, it works well to just turn off my brain. I've internalized a lot of typical patterns, etc, and I do best when I trust myself. I have a good sense of what's coming next although I'd have a hard time explaining it to someone else.

I like Carmine's drum solo CD - it has very gentle drum solos, played in a way to make things easy on the dancer. Chances are that you will have a better chance to figure out the general pattern (which is usually play it 3 times, the vary, then change) with this CD.

What helps me is not to rush into the next movement and really listen to the rhythm. Sound kind of obvious, but it makes a big difference in the way your performance looks like, so instead of trying to catch the next beat on the dot, looking spastic it pays off to be relaxed and take your time to listen.

Also it seems to me that drummers usually follow a certain pattern. If you listen to many drum solos you start to guess what is coming next.

Last thing is something I was taught by a few teachers is that you don't have to hit every single beat even in the drum solo. This will make any performance more joyfull and less mechanical.

all riffs are played 4 times, lay low with the first, then eloborate on the next 3

yup exactly wat Zamora said. The other thing is to try not to take up EVERY accent. Its ok to miss a few it keep your audience on thier toes and you become less predictable!

Drummers that are playing live for new dancers will tend to repeat accent blocks 4 times. So the first one you need to really listen, and then decide how you're going to catch the accents the next three times (and repeating here is okay, since it helps your audience understand how you're relating to the music). Practicing to recorded music is great, but they often do not follow this pattern for composed drum solos, so this advice will not apply.

Generally, you'll want to come up with a few basic moves that will go with each rhythm that drummers may use in a solo (say, drop kick or hip bounce, or omis or whatnot), so that you can fudge it at the beginning of a new set of accent blocks. Just ride out the first phrase doing something small and contained and listen so you are ready to catch the 3 repeats.

Keep in mind that many phrases will be 'closed' with a dum-dum-tec, regardless of the rhythm or accent pattern, so you can prepare to catch these if all else fails.

I have lots of live drum solos on my YouTube channel if you want to check 'em out and see what I mean.

Most of all though, don't take it too seriously. You're there to entertain the audience so make sure it's all in good fun! :)

Uh...I took too long to type. ;)

What everyone said. Know your rhythms, expect the drummer to follow the "rule of four", you don't have to catch every accent, and have fun.

great advice everyone! So does every drummer play a rifft 4 times? what if they don't?

well, you can ask him to ahead of time. and if he doesn't...well, he's probably trying to get a rise outta you on stage! ;)

Listen to a lot of drum solos and you'll recognize the 'rule of four' pattern. No, they don't *always* play *every* rhythm four times, but it happens often enough for you to anticipate it.

Usually it's played the same 3 times, then the 4th time has a different closing (often dun dun TEK as Nasila noted above).

You could talk to the drummer beforehand, tell him that you're fairly new to dancing with a live drummer, and ask him to stick to simple 2, 4, or 8 beat rhythms.

I found it helped me immensly to take a few drumming workshops and study with a 'how to drum' DVD. It suddenly made all that random drumming not-sto-random. And that's just it - it's not random, there's method in the madness!

The drummer always plays established drum patterns, such as 'saiidi', 'masmoudi', etc.* If you get a drumming instructional CD or DVD it'll tell you the basic pattern of 'doums' and 'teks' that define each rhythm. So try to learn each rhythm and practice some basic movements that go well with them.

When it comes to drum solo time, the drummer may start elaborating on the basic underlying rhythm - putting in extra drum rolls or extra teks. The more experienced the drummer, the more elaborate he may get. If he's really feeling experimental, he may even leave out the odd doum or tek. But usually you can still hear the basic, originial rhythm underneath. Sometimes you have two drummers playing. One is playing a very basic rhythm underneath (often 'saiidi' or something similarly straight-forward), while the lead drummer goes wild over the top.

You can therefore choose to dance to all the fancy twiddles (often these give us the accents that we highlight) or, if that gets too complicated, try and listen for the base rhythm and go back to dancing to that. It's like listening for the base guitar or drum under a fancy rock song. Strip away the melody and it's there.

It's also helpful to have a few moves that go well over almost anything, to give yourself thinking time. When the drummer is playing super-fast drum rolls, pelvic circles (omis) or undulations go really well, as well as the more usual shimmies.

* On Hossam Ramzy's 'Sabla Tolo' CD he's made up some unique new rhythms, and he also brings in rhythms from Latin music. Actually, that CD might be useful as a study aid, because the liner-notes list all the rhythms used in each drum solo, plus the number of times they're repeated. So you can follow along as you listen, and will be able to hear the different variations be plays with each rhythm.

4 of each riff? Sometimes, sometimes not -
Some drummers will try to work with you, some go off on their own thing & you just try to keep up. Try to stay relaxed & just wait to respond when he plays, & practise going with your instinct onstage.
If you're going to have the same drummer/show frequently, tape it & practise to that.
here's a live drum solo, you can see I don't catch the first thing all the time
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiT7VTJEFtw&fmt=18]YouTube - Kawakib - Mashaal with band[/ame]

Good point, Jewelbellydance, I hadn't even *thought* about the fact that not every dancer learns the basic rhythms. My own first teacher never taught me a thing about them, and when I started to learn on my own and ask questions she said "Oh, I don't know anything about that stuff, I just dance!"

I still love that woman, but I need to understand things on more of a book-learnin' level myself!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Good point, Jewelbellydance, I hadn't even *thought* about the fact that not every dancer learns the basic rhythms. My own first teacher never taught me a thing about them, and when I started to learn on my own and ask questions she said "Oh, I don't know anything about that stuff, I just dance!"

I still love that woman, but I need to understand things on more of a book-learnin' level myself!

Ditto. I loved my teacher - I think what she gave me most was inspiration and joy for the dance. But all the learning on music, rhythms, interpretation, history, etc etc, came from my own study - of workshops, instructional DVDs and the internet. For me, Bhuz has been the greatest source of info - or at the very least, info on what I need to find out more about!

...and on that 'rule of four'. Yes, that's the rule. Except when it isn't. Darned drummers!

One thing I've noticed on hearing various drummers live, is that many of them seem to have their favorite drum solo or rhythm combinations. So with enough exposure to their music, I can start to predict what comes next. (Having said that, I am still quite terrified of live drum solos in front of an audience!!!)

Here's a full 5 min drum solo, where you can see me thinking (note my eyeballs rolling back, like...what's next?) on the first phrase of each before catching each subsequent line (except for the syncopation, which you can kindly ignore).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9MHiG-7r5A&feature=related]YouTube - Live Belly Dance Drum Solo[/ame]

Keep in mind that musicians are people too, and talking to them beforehand will often help your connection on stage. And Jewels is right, so if possible, see if you can arrage to listen to the drummer (at another show or on CD or even that same night) to get a taste of what he's going to give you.

Originally Posted by nasila

Here's a full 5 min drum solo, where you can see me thinking (note my eyeballs rolling back, like...what's next?) on the first phrase of each before catching each subsequent line (except for the syncopation, which you can kindly ignore).

YouTube - Live Belly Dance Drum Solo

Keep in mind that musicians are people too, and talking to them beforehand will often help your connection on stage. And Jewels is right, so if possible, see if you can arrage to listen to the drummer (at another show or on CD or even that same night) to get a taste of what he's going to give you.

Yay, great clip! This is a perfect example of dancing to the underlying rhythm rather than the fancy-pants drumming going on over the top - at least, the first minute is (I haven't watched it all yet). If you watch the guy in the middle with the white drum, you can see his hands tapping out a consistant rhythm...while Mr Superdrummer on the right of the screen does the fancy thing over the top.

Ed after I've watched again...Nasila, I like how you're also picking up Mr Superdrummer's riffs on occasion with a saucy shimmy/shoulder shimmy at the end of the phrases. It works so well.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

Mr Superdrummer

That will SO make Donavon's day! tee!

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

I found it helped me immensly to take a few drumming workshops and study with a 'how to drum' DVD. It suddenly made all that random drumming not-sto-random. And that's just it - it's not random, there's method in the madness!

Carmine teaches an absolutely wonderful "Drumming for Dancers" workshop that really made the structure of drum solos add up for me. There were almost as many dancers as drummer at the workshop, and I we all walked away with a lot more knowledge.

* On Hossam Ramzy's 'Sabla Tolo' CD he's made up some unique new rhythms, and he also brings in rhythms from Latin music.

It was really interesting explaining to my students that we were dancing to a samba rhythm at one point in Khawet Serena.

Originally Posted by laura 2

Carmine teaches an absolutely wonderful "Drumming for Dancers" workshop that really made the structure of drum solos add up for me. There were almost as many dancers as drummer at the workshop, and I we all walked away with a lot more knowledge.

Karim Nagi also teaches this workshop. He broke drum solos down into 5 Parts...but I can't find my notes! One section was a Shimmy section, and uh, one was The End (which, btw, often includes the dancer spinning until she's ready to stop and gives one final obvious accent). Has anyone heard of these 5 Parts aside from what Karim teaches?

Ah ha! Well, I found the notes (they were online, not on my computer) but it's really hard to read...see if you can click on it to magnify.

And, apparently it's grown another part.

http://www.turbotabla.com/dancerdrummer.jpg

Originally Posted by nasila

Ah ha! Well, I found the notes (they were online, not on my computer) but it's really hard to read...see if you can click on it to magnify.

And, apparently it's grown another part.

http://www.turbotabla.com/dancerdrummer.jpg

Great link! Running off to study....

Anthea - love your elegant spins and arms!

Nasila - your drum solo made me shout - yeah!!

Thanks for sharing these.

Great costume Nasila, very pretty! (just had to throw that in there :)

Carmine's class is great! Also, Souhail Kaspar (neareastmusic.com) is in the final stages of producing his drummer/dancer DVD from his class. I can't speak for the dancer, but there is nothing more exhilarating for a drummer than that connection that you make with a dancer during a solo! Unless the drummer is a total jerk (watch out for those big musician egos!) they should know that making you look good reflects well on them. Isn't that what they should strive to do for you on the stage?


Larry

Ok, drummers are not machines and you should never count on them playing sets of 4.
The more sophisticated a drummer is the least likely it is that they WILL play an even four for you.
Especially if they are used to being the "Star" and not playing exclusively for dancers...If yu are fortunate enough to work with the same drummers and they are open to what you want them to do you can pull that off.

Wow, I apologize for the massive brain fart the other day, the clip I was linking to wasn't even online, so that wasn't right. Sorry about that!
I just put up the drum solo
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YPYQfs6QU0&fmt=18]YouTube - Kawakib live drum solo at Casablanca, 2005[/ame]

You can see I just use a lot of direction & staging changes, & pattern/change when trying to pick up what is going on -
these guys were never exactly the same twice in a row, being on a once a month schedule didn't help either. But I liked the gig for the fact that it WASN"T choreographed, just for a change.

Regarding the rule of 4 -- maybe that came out unclear. I don't think anyone meant to say that drummers always play in sets of four with a different accent on the 4th set.

If all drumming followed the Rule of 4 all the time, all drum solos would sound like Hallmark greeting cards, or limericks!!!

What I meant to say -- and I assume the others, too -- is that there IS structure to drumming, it isn't just random banging.

There are rhythms that are common ( and some less common) such as masmoudi kabir, saidi, etc. Think of those rhythms like words, made up of individual letters (dum, tek, ca, etc). Then there are typical patterns, such as the rule of 4 (the most commonly known and easiest to explain) that are like sentences made up from those words.

The rule of 4 was meant to be an example of the sorts of patterns you come to recognize when you listen to many many drum solos. Because drumming isn't random, but follows established structures, a dancer CAN learn to anticipate at least a little by listening to a lot of drumming. That was the point. Rule of 4 was an example.

Kawakib, he played you a composed drum solo. I know I recognize at least the first half - may be an Issam from Art of the Drum solo?

Nice job - looks like he kept you on your toes! ;)


And most drummers (well, the nice ones I've worked with anyways) will smile and somewhat comply if you tell them you're new and ask them to please take it easy on you...