Thread: To all students, regarding "loyalty" to your teacher:

Well said my friend

us students do feel a bit disloyal tho....I dont go to lessons anymore for a few reasons mainly a commitment thing now i have college but also because another teacher told my teacher that I had enquired about lessons...the other teacher failed to mention that this was before i started with my old teacher...grrrr
This post is very helpful but as a student we do feel loyalty. I wouldnt enquire about other lessons now on a different night because it just would seem like i was being unfair! So dvds and my own learning it is...!

Am I missing something Fatinah? I know you can't make a regular class right now but there really is nothing to stop you from taking more than one class if you wanted to and could afford it.

With a good teacher (as outlined in the original post) there shouldn't be a problem with you attending more than one class.

The only issues usually that arise in these circumstances if there is deliberate sneaking around going on or if a student who is attending more that one class uses that as a sort of stick to beat his/her teachers with. For example its just not cool to spend time in Teacher X's class yammering on loudly to fellow students about how much 'better' Teacher Y's class is.

I've left at least one dance class over the years because it was no longer catering for me as a student and another due to personal circumstances. Its not easy and I could have been more up front in both cases (though there was no deliberate sneaking) but I have learned through this that its totally ok to be up front with 98% teachers about these sorts of decisions.

I guess so...i havent spoken to my old teacher about it as I was unsure what I was going to do (only started college recently) and she hadnt been in touch so maybe it was because of the other teacher....dunno and to be honest not bothered anymore, im gonna stop worrying so much about stuff its all small stuff!

The above was not a dig at my old teacher by the way, i didnt realise i had even written that comment in the way I did. I certainly did not have an axe to grind but I was a bit annoyed with ANOTHER teacher and not my own. My teacher did get in touch with me during the summer. So I take those comments back.
Call it a moment of paranoia.
Since that post I have had numerous amounts of therapy as part of my personal development on my psycotherapy course so maybe I was being a little grrrrrrrrr.
But yeh I felt an apology to Lizajuk was needed x

Is that the "letter"/quote from Shira's website? Love it!

First, I want to acknowledge everyone on this thread..... I love what I'm reading!!!! I agree with sooo much of what has been said....have experienced some of these issues myself...

Second, there was a post earlier regarding an article in Gilded Serpent by Horacio and Beata Cifuentes where "loyalty" was mentioned (or lack thereof).

I read the article and responses thereafter.......

To be honest, I did cringe a little. It came off that they were unhappy and feeling unappreciated by some past students........
Maybe it was "arranged" differently when written, after the fact?

Third, I AM a fan of H & B. I collect all their music and videos, & dvds.
They have so much knowledge and they expect nothing but the best! They want EVERYONE to "raise the bar" in themselves.

Third, I applaud all the teachers that posted and expressed themselves! But I do say to students who leave the apprenticeship of their teachers for bigger and better things.......It's just being nice and give up some credit every once and a while.....It's good for teachers to hear that they've helped someone that has gone so far, or even not so far.... Love

Yay for zombie threads! Don't know why I missed this the first time around....

But, I have to say I agree 100% with this. I encourage my students to study with as many teacher as they want - even a "not so great" teacher has something you can learn.

My first teacher was NOT like this - you would get kicked out of her company if she found out you were taking classes elsewhere. In her mind, her "style" was the only and the best. I taught classes secretly for a year before I finally left, because I didn't want her to find out I was doing anything without her "permission".

It wasn't until I left and started taking classes elsewhere that I realized how much I *didn't* know. I look at her dancers now and see them doing the same 10 moves that seem to be the only moves she teaches and I am sad at all the time they are wasting stagnating, when they could be experiencing things elsewhere and improving.

Originally Posted by laura 2

If I have specific and personal knowledge (read: not idle gossip) about another instructor and I am asked by the student for my opinion, I will share with them one or two things that the other instructor does so they can make an informed decision. For example:

"One of my other students took Suzy Nippletassle's class last year, and told me that she didn't feel there was enough breaking down of the movements for her to really get it. She also said that Suzy was usually 10-15 minutes late to class on a regular basis, and didn't usually apologize or make up the time. I haven't actually taken Suzy's class myself though, so I can only tell you what was reported to me."

I think the important this is to stick to facts/actions rather than opinions/feelings. I would never say:

"Suzy Nippletassels is a horrible teacher! She's just terrible at explaining moves. She's also disrespectful to her students, coming in late every week and wasting their time. Stay as far as you can away from her, and tell everyone you know to do the same thing!"

Totally agreed! I will also give my opinion [backed up by facts & direct experience, not what I have heard from others] briefly, if I feel Teacher X is blatantly unqualified, unsafe for students, and giving Bellydance a bad name. I qualify that by stating "This my observation and qualified opinion, you may feel otherwise."
For example, a stripper Bellydancer, a student who went into teaching when at a barely past beginner stage (& no natural talent either).
Yes, I run the risk of sounding "jealous" or sour grapes, as that is a common reaction to criticism. [Remind me to reprint my article on why I hate women accusing other women of jealousy...] I don't mind taking risks..g.: for the common good!

Originally Posted by mrsnj20

I wish all teachers thought this way! thanks for the post!:)

I hear ya on this one. No one teacher can provide every and all to a student either. It's like thinking that one person in life is going to provide for all your needs, which is impossible. We need all kinds of people - same thing with teachers.

I so second the motion I can't begin to tell you! I wish all bellydance teachers were this way! Alas they are NOT, and they DO feel like you OWE them more than money... I could go on. Suffice it to say, my teaching philosophy is exactly the same! Bravo! I challenge ALL BELLYDANCE teachers to adhere to this! There should be a pledge/oath we must sign before becoming teachers that states this!

Originally Posted by shenudance

there was a post earlier regarding an article in Gilded Serpent by Horacio and Beata Cifuentes where "loyalty" was mentioned (or lack thereof).

I read the article and responses thereafter.......

To be honest, I did cringe a little. It came off that they were unhappy and feeling unappreciated by some past students........
Maybe it was "arranged" differently when written, after the fact?

I misunderstood H&B's emails when they first started sending them, but I think one of their big gripes was people learning a choreography from them and then performing it without giving credit to the choreographer -- OR, using their music without credit. It's not "loyalty" so much as just common courtesy. That was my understanding of it, anyway.

Originally Posted by aziyade

I misunderstood H&B's emails when they first started sending them, but I think one of their big gripes was people learning a choreography from them and then performing it without giving credit to the choreographer -- OR, using their music without credit. It's not "loyalty" so much as just common courtesy. That was my understanding of it, anyway.

nope.

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/rest-belly...fuentes-2.html

ooooooh.... I missed that thread and that post. Hmm. I just hope my painting teachers don't feel this way ! I love them and appreciate what they have taught me, but there are only so many hours in the day. :/

When my first teacher found out from another student that I'd mentioned maybe taking a class with another local instructor, she called me at home about it. I didn't see the problem, but she flipped & said a lot of ugly things, including telling me what a mean, nasty & hateful person I was & so was Teacher X so we deserved each other. She then proceeded to tell me I couldn't come back to class, she was kicking me out. I told her that's ok, no kicking required, I'd gladly leave since it obviously upset her so much. Oddly, I was calm through all this, even her calling me names. She didn't stop there, though, she gave my ph# out to a ME cafe I danced at & wouldn't go back to because they were disrespectful to me. She told them I changed my mind & to call me, so they did. Repeatedly.

Talk about insecure.

I went to Teacher X, and it was an eye-opener as to how much I didn't know. I've always been thankful I left/was kicked out of my first teacher's classes. I've learned so much more because of it.

I think a good teacher should want students to learn all they can & not limit them to just her/his curriculum.

Over the years several of my students have taken classes with other local teachers and performed in their troupes as well as mine. Others have left my studio, temporarily or permanently, to study with Master Instructors such as Yasmina Ramzy of Arabesque in Toronto, Canada. Most of them told me well in advance, not to ask for my permission, which they certainly didn't need, but out of respect for the relationship we had cultivated over the years.

I just received this Facebook message today from a student who is leaving the country to teach abroad. Really heartwarming and I'm happy to share it here with you:

-------------------------

Hi Kellye,

Getting ready for Korea has taken up so much of spare time that I have been unable to attend your classes. I wish this wasn't the case as I love belly dancing and I am so glad that I decided to give it a try!

I hope to continue to dance in Korea and that I can find a dance studio as good as Oasis. I don't think this will be case, but my instructional DVDs hopefully will help.

Thanks again for being a great instructor and inspiration to continue dancing! You provided much more than just a class to learn dance but an environment to understand its surrounding culture.

Thanks again and I wish you continued success with Oasis.

(Level 2 Student)

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Khalida

I've always loved this original post. So true ... :)

Thank you all for this, beautifully said. I really love the start of this thread especially because I am at that stage of having several feet into different areas with multiple mentors and friends for the next stage of my dance evolution. I have been amazed that I can go to one class and feel really hot stuff and in the next breath go to another where I feel like a banana slug partially covered in dirt. To me that is a very good thing because if I am totally comfortable I am probably not learning. It is hard to avoid the unspoken loyalty clauses but find it worse to feel stale and uninspired as a dancer and learner which is the recipe for death in an otherwise beautiful art. Aunna