Thread: Will I ever be able to just put moves together?

I have practiced off and on for hours today and like many days of sweating and repetition, I find myself wondering if I will ever be able to just dance? I can drill drill drill, but when does it come when you can put on a piece of music and actually start stringing hip bumps, shimmies, camels, etc when the music calls for it without having to map it out in your head first? I find that when I just try and let go I just end up repeating the same 2 or 3 moves. I just sort of stand there blanking out- I know I can do more than those 3 movements!..c:: What did it for you? Are there some who have to have it choreographed first and others who can just freestyle? Is there a method to achieve actual dancing???

I would say that I probably studied the dance seriously for six years or more before I really felt like my improvisational skills even started to develop. I consider myself a fast learner with a fair degree of natural aptitude for this dance form.

By your bhuz handle, I'm assuming you are a beginner. I think sometimes people want everything instantly. I see this in my students. They get frustrated way too quickly, expect to make years worth of progress in months or weeks. It all takes time to develop, no matter how naturally "gifted" you are.

Meanwhile, keep putting the music on and noodling around with it, but don't limit yourself to that. There is nothing wrong with choreographing your own dances or learning other people's choreographies as tools to develop these skills. Other things that add to the process are listening to ME music ALL the time, spending hours analyzing and watching performance videos, visualizing dance while listening to music, etc.

This is the hardest bit, and also the most rewarding. It takes time.

For the first two and a half years after I started BD, I had to choreograph nearly every nanosecond of my performances, or I was lost. I now find, three years later, that not only am I comfortable with all-improv pieces, but it's almost impossible to stick to a full choreography without throwing some improv in there. So yes, it can happen.

For me, there were three things I needed to accomplish before being able to improv comfortably:

1. Having a large movement vocabulary. Not only the number of moves, but how to vary them with angle changes, traveling, level changes, etc. Not only understanding these things, but having enough experience doing them that I could make them happen without even thinking about it.

2. Familiarity with ME music. I don't mean knowing a bunch of songs; it's more about understanding the structure and nuances of the music from pop to folkloric to full orchestral. I used to think people were nuts when they said that the music tells you what to do, but they were right. The trick is, you have to understand the language that your being told what to do in.

3. Confidence. Not just in front of other dancers, but even with yourself. I have some students who LOVE to dance and are quite good, but are scared to death of an open dance at a hafla. Just like the roots of BD are in social dance, I believe that the first step in becoming comfortable with improv is via social dancing. They don't second guess themselves when we go to the clubs or a wedding and boogie down to the Pussycat Dolls or Justin Timberlake; but put some Hakim or Saad on and suddenly they're paralyzed with fear that they're dancing wrong.

For all of the above, there is nothing that will get you there except time and experience. All the drilling in the world teaches you to do nothing but drill. If you want to dance, you have to dance!

What laura 2 posted . . . and what everybody else posted!

I really think that one of the things that allows folks to "just put moves together" is a very strong background in movement technique. When you already know how to create the moves in a "second nature" kind of way (you can execute the moves in your sleep) you just have to string them together.

Hmmm . . . that's kinda simplistic. Let's add the following: the other thing that keeps us from dancing instead of just drilling is that we don't know how to seque between movements.

Try putting together 3 or 4 movements that naturally segue well from one to the other, for example a couple of hip circles, backward horizontal 8s and a few downward vertical 8s ("mayas"). Try mixing up the order. Do this alot. Over time, you will develop an "automatic" combination that you're so comfortable with that you can tweak it without messing yourself up.

Do more combos, maybe with stationary hip lifts and drops, step-lifts and another traveling step like the chasse (step-together-step-hold). Mix up the order. Do it alot. Get comfortable.

Pay attention to how you seque from one movement to another. Let's say you're doing some hip drops with your right hip and now you want to travel with the chasse. How do you begin the chasse? With your weight-free foot of course, which in this case means you have to step with your right (unweighted) foot; you can't begin the chasse with your left foot 'cuz you're already standing on it!

In general, a good rule of thumb when we're first starting out is to begin a new movement toward the unweighted side or limb. Using this "rule" you don't have to make any awkward weight changes or intermediary steps that disrupt the flow of the dance -- every new movement is a natural extension of the one before it.

If I recall correctly from some earlier posts, HookedNovice, you really have just started BD, so you have barely begun to scratch the surface of your movement vocabulary. From what I've seen, it usually takes about a year (sometimes less, sometimes a lot more) for once-a-week students to "own" any movements at all. You are not a once-a-week-er kind of student, so you will no doubt feel more comfortable with more movements more quickly than that, but that "second nature" thing can take some time. You have that time. Enjoy it. Have fun!

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Hmmm . . . that's kinda simplistic. Let's add the following: the other thing that keeps us from dancing instead of just drilling is that we don't know how to seque between movements.

I agree totally! Learning how to trnasition from move to move is a huge part of what takes you from drilling to dancing. When teaching combinations, I try to not only teach the transition, but the concept behind it so that the students can take it beyond just the combo I'm teaching.

Yep - it's all about practice. I start my beginners improvising in week two (only a couple of minutes). At first just move. Doesn't matter how - get over that hump.

Later, improvise with limits - it makes things easier. For example, pick two moves and use only those to dance for a whole song. Or pick a backup move - whenever you get stuck just do your backup move. Or dance only with hip moves, ot only with upper body moves, or always travelling.

After a few years things will get smoother, nicer, more like dancing.

Enjoy

The short answer is 'Yes you will'.

There's loads of superb advice here already and I'll reiterate that its never too soon to learn improvisation skills (I started in my second ever class and I learn more every time I have a tit about to some music) or to make up little choreographies for your self, or to listen to as much ME music as possible.

You may find that things like confidence in improvisation comes and goes a lot over time but its still a vital skill for our dance form and its one of those areas where I believe its important to always have a go when the opportunity is there.

You may also find that you go through phases of using certain moves and combos a lot and find yourself wondering why it is that all you seem to do lately is move A, followed by move B, followed by move C. Don't be discouraged. Its great experience for putting things together smoothly an building muscle memory.

Yay! you will be able to! I wondered & worried about the same thing...until I started dancing in a restaurant...and then I started realizing that when I forgot my choreographies, I was still dancing, and I was doing just fine...and pretty soon it got a lot easier to "just dance" than it was to try & work out a choreography... and now I love to do both! I still have a difficult time with some pieces of music...but I think that has to do with familiarity with certain styles of music, and how often I dance to one style versus another. For example, I'm really comfortable with pop music & drum solos, semi-comfortable with classical oriental pieces, and terrified of improv to, for example, karsilama, which I rarely dance to. I agree with everyone else...you have to actively practice improv at home, and don't be worried about messing up! And I agree with Kahdiya--my confidence comes and goes. Some nights when I'm working I think "man, that was crappy--I feel like all I did was 3 movements that entire song"...oddly enough, on those nights I've often gotten many compliments on my dance style. Other nights you'll completely feel like you're on fire with the music. Don't give up!

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

I have practiced off and on for hours today and like many days of sweating and repetition, I find myself wondering if I will ever be able to just dance? I can drill drill drill, but when does it come when you can put on a piece of music and actually start stringing hip bumps, shimmies, camels, etc when the music calls for it without having to map it out in your head first? I find that when I just try and let go I just end up repeating the same 2 or 3 moves. I just sort of stand there blanking out- I know I can do more than those 3 movements!..c:: What did it for you? Are there some who have to have it choreographed first and others who can just freestyle? Is there a method to achieve actual dancing???

Of course you'll be able to! But it takes a hell of a lot of drilling to the point where the moves can be executed without needing to think about technique and so forth, which frees up your brain to be creative and improvise to the music you are hearing. Your drilling today will pay divedends in the quality of your improvisation in the future.

As a side note, if you watch a lot of the classic Egyptian star dancers, they use a HUGE amount of repitition in their dances. You can certainly perform a lovely improvisation by taking those three moves you are comfortable with and dressing them up with additude, expression, posture, etc.

Body language and the language of the brain (speech) have so much in common. When you learn a new language (as an adult), you spend time translating in your head from your native language into the language you are learning. When speaking, that gives rise to a halting speech pattern, a limited vocabulary and uncertainty in your statements. As you become more fluent thru every day use, you translate less and less and become faster and smoother and more expressive. So......

Dance every day for at least 20 minutes, listen to your music at least twice that much, and trust that it will begin to happen, just when you stop "thinking" about it.

I totally agree with what everyone's said here, and would add that learning other people's choreographies (good ones, lots of them, and lots of varied ones) will help you at this stage. You're learning the "words" but you need to take other people's stories and read them so that you can really understand the essence of the music. Then, suddenly, your own story will come pouring out.

Originally Posted by nasila

I totally agree with what everyone's said here, and would add that learning other people's choreographies (good ones, lots of them, and lots of varied ones) will help you at this stage. You're learning the "words" but you need to take other people's stories and read them so that you can really understand the essence of the music. Then, suddenly, your own story will come pouring out.

Nasila, what a lovely way of putting this. Nice post!

The best way I find is just to put a piece of music on (Middle Eastern music) that you like and just dance at home for fun-just let it happen.who cares what it looks like its not for an audience its for you and about how it feels.Listen to lots of music and then you can start to predict it in your head-you are getting used to the patterns and the rhythms.use Egyptian pop,listens to lots eventually it will be easy to predict. just bop along at home no pressure, let yourself have fun, let your face relax and have fun.Remember and learn your technique from class and use it in your own dancing. it will seem odd at first but you'll cope. Just enjoy it-that always comes out when you are dancing people always respond to a dancer that has fun and comunicates joy in their dance.
Good luck

I posted about this at one time and someone gave me a link to a great article, I will see if I can dig it up. Basically it went something like this.

Try to identify what your default moves are. Mine are 3/4 shimmies, hip drops and what I call fancy walking.

Put in a song and do just those until you feel comfortable doing them and moving from one thing to the next.

Pick one more move and try to incorporate it into your defaults. Keep doing it until it feels like second nature.

Pick another move and do it again and so on and so on.

I don't know if this is the BEST way to do it, but it is working for me. I also just bit the bullet and found a venue that has open dance time and got out there with the rest of them and danced. It is also nice with others as you can see how they are interperting the music and get ideas to try later.

You will get it, I will get it. I am learning it just takes time and getting out of your head.

Found it! It is towards the middle of the list. The rest of the articles are awesome as well! Thank you Jewel...

Jewel Bellydance - Belly dance classes melbourne Australia ::: Articles

Very sage advice given here. And keep in mind that every one is different.

I strictly choreographed for 10 years before improvised dancing to live music.

Laura 2's advice is particularly instructive in this regard in that choreographing (or learning others' choreography) helps build the dance vocabulary from which to draw. Also, choreographing to ME music helps you to become familiar with it, in addition to just listening to it ALL THE TIME. While you're sewing, while you're driving, traveling, doing house work, etc.

Then the confidence will come as you start to develop your core repertoire of movements (having choreographed them many times over, and developing new ones along the way).

Sometimes trial by fire helps, too. I was scared S***less to improvise b/c I had been choreographing for so long. But all of the drilling, the musicality that I learned from mapping music and relating movements to them, and all the hours of being familiar with so many songs paid off when I was forced to improvise to live band, who played every song with which I was already familiar.

It does take time, as Zumarrad mentioned. Yours may come quicker than others or slower than others, but persevere and you will be doing more than just putting moves together, you'll be dancing.

I love you guys....


I don't even know who to quote..l;,I liked all the advice. I guess I just needed a barometer. I wasn't implying I wanted instant results. I was concerned that If I was learning Jillina's choreos for example, I would be stuck there and never learn to put them together on my own to form my own style. Many of the sugestions you all gave I am already doing so
Thank you all so much

I am willing to pay my dues, so I'll just keep on. Remember when you all were first starting and you'd hear a piece so beautiful you wanted to just let go and express yourself? Somehow my puny hip bumps and almost imperceptable mayas don't express what my heart feels. But now I am encouraged and inspired.

Linny, good article. That building type exercise is something I can do.

Nasila, what you posted made my eyes tear. That's where I want to be someday....

Sometimes you have to just stop thinking in terms of bellydance and just dance to the music. You may not get a masterpiece out of it, but it helps loosen you up from all the drills and movements that you have flying around in your head. I still get frustrated with songs. I have one where all I can seem to do is shimmy! It drives me mad! lol

Everyone has that ability in them. I'm sure when you go out to a club to dance, you have no problem moving and "putting moves together" to the songs, even if you have never heard of them. That's because you are relaxed and want to have fun; you enjoy the music and naturally move to it. With belly dance it's similar, at least the part that you are asking: you just have to substitute Middle Eastern music and belly dance moves, and yes, you can just put moves together, on the spot, enjoy it, look good and not have to worry about what comes next.
(of course there's a whole lot more to belly dance / Middle Eastern dance - culture, attitude, history and music knowledge, etc etc, but I am just addressing the movement-part.)

I think a lot of dancers overthink improvisation and are almost afraid of it, because they have started out learning belly dance through choreographies and they're so used to it.
I went through the choreo phase for about 7 months when I started - that's what was offered - but I realized that it didn't work for me: it seemed too mechanical, rehearsed, kind of like a "job" you have to do, instead of just enjoying it. I was lucky that I found a teacher who taught only impro, I had no problem performing to live music in front an audience after just a few months (by this time I was taking classes for a total of 1 year).

I teach improvisation and my students are able to "just put moves together". I always emphasize that even if you just know 3-4 moves there are a lot of things you can do with them.

Originally Posted by Marianna

I'm sure when you go out to a club to dance, you have no problem moving and "putting moves together" to the songs, even if you have never heard of them.

This may be true for the original poster - but I'd just like to point out (because someone always says this when talking about learning how to improv) that this is NOT true for everyone. Not everyone has no problem moving to songs and stuff when they go out to clubs to dance even not in a bellydance context - personally, until I started taking bellydance if you put me out on a dance floor of a club I wouldn't have the first clue what to do - I'd freeze up just as much as if you'd asked me to go improvise a bellydance solo - dancing consisted of bobbing my head

Originally Posted by portiaangel

This may be true for the original poster - but I'd just like to point out (because someone always says this when talking about learning how to improv) that this is NOT true for everyone. Not everyone has no problem moving to songs and stuff when they go out to clubs to dance even not in a bellydance context - personally, until I started taking bellydance if you put me out on a dance floor of a club I wouldn't have the first clue what to do - I'd freeze up just as much as if you'd asked me to go improvise a bellydance solo - dancing consisted of bobbing my head

Excellent point, my sister is what we call a chair dancer. She can dance just find sitting in her chair but once you ask her to move her feet as well it all falls apart...g.:

Originally Posted by portiaangel

This may be true for the original poster - but I'd just like to point out (because someone always says this when talking about learning how to improv) that this is NOT true for everyone. Not everyone has no problem moving to songs and stuff when they go out to clubs to dance even not in a bellydance context - personally, until I started taking bellydance if you put me out on a dance floor of a club I wouldn't have the first clue what to do - I'd freeze up just as much as if you'd asked me to go improvise a bellydance solo - dancing consisted of bobbing my head

Yes, I am one of those who can move on the dance floor (meaning I can get by), but not MOVE on the dance floor, which is overwhelmingly apparent while watching most of the GP on the dance floor. Most people are adequate. It's only the select few who can look great out there.

But at least now I have something to do on the dance floor. (I can do some hip bumps and 3/4 shimmies) ..l;,..l;,..l;,

Yes you will. It happened for me around the 3-4 year mark.
Also, try dancing at home without a mirror, without judging maybe even with the lights off. I understand completely about looking in the mirror and not seeing what you expect. I was doing a drum solo choreo tonight that I learned from Aradia. Unfortunately my mirror has informed me that I don't look like Aradia. :-) the point is - the mirror can be a helpful thing but sometimes it can be a negative thing. Some days I just avoid it and dance facing away from the mirror.