Thread: Spin Off From Personal Style & Development

Is it possible to be an excellent, cohesive troupe member as well as a soloist?

When participating in a troupe I think it's my responsibility (and very important) to blend in and be part of the group. That means NOT trying to stand out or adding extra embellishments even if I want to. Of course, you can't hide differences in technique but the aim is to try to work together as a team rather than a bunch of soloists dancing together.

As a teacher, I choreograph movements, timing, hands, arms positions in order that the group can look as cohesive as possible.

As a soloist, you can really cut loose and embellish as you please, choreograph or improvise or do a combination of both and if you end up doing something that doesn't feel quite right you can recover quite easily because you are the only one on stage.

So, as I asked is it possible to be a stand out soloist as well as a good troupe dancer?

Reason I ask is because in the personal style thread, a few people mentioned that they always add something extra in when performing in troupes.

Looking at my own troupe, I would have to say that it's possible to do both types of dancing well. We're not trying for a Rockettes uniform look, and there are some variations in style here and there, but I think that makes group dances more interesting.

However -- these are dancers who are VERY supportive of the troupe, and who want the troupe to look good. That's important.

Agreed, I feel you can do both so long as you understand that dancing with a troupe is a different skill than dancing solo.

Depending on the troupe it can be possible to have your own personal style, for eg like Bintbeled mentions not all troupes are going for a completely uniform look and I agree that when dancing with a troupe the focus should be dancing together, not just a group of soloists dancing at the same time.

For some dancers it can be a good idea to take a break from troupe work while developing your own style unless you are able to switch in and out from group vibe/solo vibe.

It's a good idea to discuss with the troupe leader where the boundaries are for that particular troupe. Sometimes something as simple as facial expression can make a troupe member look detached from the group and take away from the overall effect.

i also believe that it depends on the troupe. There are troupes which wish every member to look exactly the same when dancing. This goes to the point of finding dancers who are all in the same basic size and shape range. there are others who really understand that the dancers are individuals and while they train the dancers to dance similarly enough that they create a cohesive group, they also play to the strengths of the individuals.

Personally, I find it difficult to be a member of the chorus. But I always have.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

there are others who really understand that the dancers are individuals and while they train the dancers to dance similarly enough that they create a cohesive group, they also play to the strengths of the individuals.

Personally, I find it difficult to be a member of the chorus. But I always have.

This is more along the lines of what I am getting at. The goal of any team, troupe, or group is to be cohesive and work together for an end goal, result or effect. So as you said, you play to the strengths of the individuals to bring about that cohesiveness.

On the other hand, I think some people find it hard to work within a team setting and consciously or unconsciously stand out or work against the team.

You said you find it difficult to be a member of the chorus. I am interested to know why? (Not because I am looking for a debate but because I am genuinely interested to know why).

It's not a conscience thing on my part. When I was a ballerina, I became a soloist or featured dancer (the member of the chorus who does something a little different) very early. I was chosen for duets, character work, etc. One choreographer told me that it was because of my looks, that I drew focus. I was a good dancer as well. partly because I would emote so well. And lastly because I was trained by a teacher who taught in a very different style than the rest of the dancers.

I still find much of the above to be true. I have only been invited to join one troupe, and even then the teacher / choreographer was inviting me to be a soloist. *shrugs*

Maybe it is simply that people don't think of me as a troupe member?

{{{HUGS}}}

I have to work at this regularly. Thankfully, I started my dance career as a member of a troupe (improv tribal) before moving on to the Niraja Dance Company, where we do an entirely different style of bellydance, but I know that being a member of a troupe previously really helped me to become a cohesive part of the unit much more quickly.

One of the things I admire about Lotus is that she encourages each of us to find our way as a solo dancer. So I can say with certainty that none of us have the same style as soloists. This coming year, my goal is to delve much more deeply into who I am as a dancer, taking more workshops and privates, studying more and longer, really continuing to find my way. I've started the journey and it is endlessly fascinating.

Hmm...I'm still not really sure. I think that if you start out in a troupe and then become a soloist, it's much easier to do both. For me, I have to concentrate really hard to put everything where it goes. I guess we'll see if I can be part of a group...but honestly, I'd rather solo. I like the freedom of expression. You can't really have that if you're doing the same thing as everyone else and you didn't choreograph it. Not to say that you can't be expressive in a group setting. Sure, there's eye contact and so on and so forth, but you're not interpreting the music. You're dancing the way someone else intrepretted the music. *shrug* But that might just be me.
:-P

I started as a soloist, but love dancing with my troupe. I think the ability to blend in to form a cohesive whole when you're used to standing out might depend on how you feel about your fellow troupies. I <3 my troupies!

Latifa

I think this has more to do with "where" a dancer is, than which is better.

Over the years, there were times when being in a troupe was the best thing at the time and times when going solo was the best.

They both offer important skills that are worth learning. The order of that learning is best answered by the individual dancer.

Another consideration is your ultimate goal, if you really want to be a solo performer and work on solo stuff, then being in a troupe may be a waste of your time (at that time). Or vice cersa...But if you dream up choreography with a stage full of dancers, than going solo may not be your thang at the moment...

The real danger is not being open to change or in classifying yourself as "a soloist" or "a troupe dancer" and getting stuck in that role.

Besides you can always try one or the other and then change your mind. You are free to do that --change your mind--- ya know!

Personally, I'm an improviser (choreo not my fav) and tend to be a loner, but I have found that learning troupe choreographies and "owning" them has really helped me to be a better dancer and performer...

What about if you don't TRY to stand out, but you do anyway?

I dance with two troupes, AND I dance solo as well...

Last year, after performing with the bigger of the troupes, I had several people come up and tell me how they couldn't take their eyes off of me, that I was glowing, and that they could tell how much I loved performing...

Its not something I can control, apparently. ;) I love dancing with my troupes. I'm very lucky to be involved in two, where both teachers are excellent choreographers.

I don't add my own embelleshiments, and I really try not to stand out, but sometimes, I guess you just can't help it...

Yasmin..brings up a good point...

Some folks have more charisma than others, which causes them to stand out in a crowd...

That's a hard one, because while you don't want to suppress that kind of energy, if you are the only one that stands out, you may inadvertantly make others look bad or dull...you may look like the "lone diva"

A negative side effect of being fabulous!!! LOL

On the other hand, sometimes there is one dancer in a troupe that completely lacks charisma and almost acts as a negative, bringing the whole troupe's "look" down. It can be very distracting...

Troupe Directors have a tough job- I don't envy that role

Originally Posted by Bellybabe

Is it possible to be an excellent, cohesive troupe member as well as a soloist?

Absolutely. I think people will naturally gravitate towards one or the other, or simply prefer one over the other, but can excel in both. I think that the sort of technical precision and musicality that makes one an excellent soloist extends beautifully to precision in coreography and synchronisity as a troupe performer.

Well though I dance solo 99 percent of the time, I do like being in a troupe and find that it only enhances the developement of my own personal style.

Right now I'm doing one just for fun and feel like a total beginner dancer which makes me feel really good. No pressure to be perfect at the end of the eight week session. This class brings me a lot of joy and what I've learned has been indispensible.

I'm also trying out for a professional troupe as a back-up dancer and I'm happy with that. Don't know if I'll make the cut but I am enjoying the process. It has opened up my eyes to listen and feel the music in a different way and has added to my personal style....

If any of that makes sense... .w.:

I find dancing with a group very difficult and I envy people who can do it well but I just can't.
Doomed to be the lone diva lady!!

Originally Posted by yasmindiab

What about if you don't TRY to stand out, but you do anyway?

Last year, after performing with the bigger of the troupes, I had several people come up and tell me how they couldn't take their eyes off of me, that I was glowing, and that they could tell how much I loved performing...

I don't add my own embelleshiments, and I really try not to stand out, but sometimes, I guess you just can't help it...

I've had that experience as well but the key thing you mentioned is that you are not TRYING to stand out. I've already affirmed that you can't hide technique or natural charisma but it IS apparent when someone is standing out by design.

A good example is my dance teacher, Nath Keo. He is a phenomenal dancer. However, when he choregraphs for troupe and performs with us, he rarely places himself in front row let alone front and centre. He clearly can dance any one of us under the table and when he solos he shines but when dancing with the troupe, though he can't hide his obvious talent and natural ability/affinity with the music, he purposely blends in as much as possible with the troupe. The way he puts it, his solos are his time to turn "it" on full blast.

Personally, I find solo work easier and much more freeing. It allows me to be more than just a "chorus" dancer which I know I wouldn't be satisfied with if that was my only outlet. On the other hand, I really enjoy troupe/group work because it feels so satisfying to work on something as a team and aim for it to look as polished and cohesive as possible. Besides, you can also do formations and patterns that are not possible as a soloist. And, as someone else has mentioned, there is a valuable discipline of both mind and body that comes from working with a group.

I'm definitely not a team player in any context so I much, much prefer dancing solo (greater personal control).

On the other hand, I do enjoy dancing in a group, if only for the challenge of precision and interaction that it gives me.

Sometimes, I could quite cheerfully bop my fellow group members over the head with my assaya, but mostly I do enjoy the interaction aspect of it.

I also find that dancing with a group helps me to be much more aware of issues of space

I'm a chorister from way back and I think it's very possible to be both a good chorus-girl and a stunning soloist. I think it all comes down to attitude, and understanding what costitutes good 'chorus' vs 'solo'. As a choir, all members should aim to blend, to do everything the same way. The end result is fabulous, and much better than the sum of the parts. The only problem comes when people don't understand or believe that. I've gotta say, the worst choirs I've ever heard have been groups made up of great soloists who simply couldn't reign their ego in. When you're singing in the group, you should aim to make the whole group shine - which calls for group-oriented thinking, specific direction and discipline - and when you're soloing, then it's time to show your interpretive genius.

It probably helps a dance group to watch footage of their perfomances, or each take time out to watch the group in practice - to see the amazing effect of unity and cohesiveness. It's hard to really understand how the group looks while you're dancing within it.

To go back to singing, I think Destiny's Child are a great example of what you can aim for. They consisted of some stellar soloists, but when they sang together they sang as one, and the harmonies were simply fantastic. That's the result you want a troupe to aim for. It doesn't take away from the individual members' fabulousness.

Originally Posted by sweetie_1916

Hmm...I'm still not really sure. I think that if you start out in a troupe and then become a soloist, it's much easier to do both. For me, I have to concentrate really hard to put everything where it goes. I guess we'll see if I can be part of a group...but honestly, I'd rather solo. I like the freedom of expression. You can't really have that if you're doing the same thing as everyone else and you didn't choreograph it. Not to say that you can't be expressive in a group setting. Sure, there's eye contact and so on and so forth, but you're not interpreting the music. You're dancing the way someone else intrepretted the music. *shrug* But that might just be me.
:-P

Dancing with a troupe brings feelings of camaraderie and belonging, and is a good place to start for many people because they have the opportunity to perform without the feelings of exposure that are inherent in soloing.

Belly dancing really is a solo sport, so your desire to solo is a good thing!

Deborah

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

I'm a chorister from way back and I think it's very possible to be both a good chorus-girl and a stunning soloist. I think it all comes down to attitude, and understanding what costitutes good 'chorus' vs 'solo'. As a choir, all members should aim to blend, to do everything the same way. The end result is fabulous, and much better than the sum of the parts. The only problem comes when people don't understand or believe that. I've gotta say, the worst choirs I've ever heard have been groups made up of great soloists who simply couldn't reign their ego in. When you're singing in the group, you should aim to make the whole group shine - which calls for group-oriented thinking, specific direction and discipline - and when you're soloing, then it's time to show your interpretive genius.

Thanks jewelbellydance, that's exactly what I was trying to get at when I asked the question in the first place.

Originally Posted by khadiya

Sometimes, I could quite cheerfully bop my fellow group members over the head with my assaya

Khadiya...lol...yeah, I suppose an even more important question then should someone join a group, is which troupe to join.

Each dancer must really consider... is the prospective troupe a good fit. Does your personality blend with the other members and do you get along well with the director.

I moved to Houston in March, and shortly thereafter was asked to join Qantara Dance Company, which is a troupe mainly comprised of dance teachers and others that have danced a long time. I was really cautious initially, because I really didn't know these women. But I went to several of their practices and got a chance to view them in stressful situations and I got a snapshot of how they treat each other and other Houston area dancers.

I was so impressed; I joined them and I'm very happy I did, even though I would consider myself mainly a solo dancer.

But that was also after I took into account many other things...

Joining a troupe, whether you are a soloist or not, is a HUGE decision.

More on the subject of personal style and development...

For me, the biggest obstacle to my own style and development, was the personal realization that my own style and moves are just as valid and cool as anyone elses.

We often want what others have, instead of appreciating and nurturing our own attributes.

Little do we know, that others are thinking the same thing about us, that we are thinking of them.

Personal style/development happens pretty naturally, as long as you are dancing what you feel..IMO it's our own heads that get in the way.

Originally Posted by AnnaTX

Each dancer must really consider... is the prospective troupe a good fit. Does your personality blend with the other members and do you get along well with the director.

Great observation.

Originally Posted by AnnaTX

More on the subject of personal style and development...

For me, the biggest obstacle to my own style and development, was the personal realization that my own style and moves are just as valid and cool as anyone elses.

We often want what others have, instead of appreciating and nurturing our own attributes.

Little do we know, that others are thinking the same thing about us, that we are thinking of them.

Personal style/development happens pretty naturally, as long as you are dancing what you feel..IMO it's our own heads that get in the way.

Excellent point AnnaTX. I think this is what contributes to my sometimes overwhelming stage fright!

Hmmm, this is a difficult subject.
Theres an instructor at our studio that drills & drills for everyone in the class (and sometimes troupe) to all be doing same moves - as we do have one or two always adding stuff onto things. When teaching the move/combo/choreo - she executes it same as everyone else, but when she perfoms w/ the class or troupe this instructor ALWAYS adds this or that little change. Sometimes it's just subtle, but other times clearly sets herself above the group.

I've mentioned it, as have our students - especially those trying to add their own embelishment style in the mix. The instructor calls them out for it, but then does the very same thing herself (but not until perfom in front of audiance) The instructor is a phenominal dancer (and soloist) in her own right - so why she does this I've no idea (unless maybe ego...)

It could be ego, do you really think it is her ego?...

Sometimes as dancers things just happen only in performance that we don't necessary know we are doing. Like a bad habit, that's not "bad"...

Originally Posted by Chandra

Hmmm, this is a difficult subject.
Theres an instructor at our studio that drills & drills for everyone in the class (and sometimes troupe) to all be doing same moves - as we do have one or two always adding stuff onto things. When teaching the move/combo/choreo - she executes it same as everyone else, but when she perfoms w/ the class or troupe this instructor ALWAYS adds this or that little change. Sometimes it's just subtle, but other times clearly sets herself above the group.

I've mentioned it, as have our students - especially those trying to add their own embelishment style in the mix. The instructor calls them out for it, but then does the very same thing herself (but not until perfom in front of audiance) The instructor is a phenominal dancer (and soloist) in her own right - so why she does this I've no idea (unless maybe ego...)

I've had this experience with an instructor. Also re costuming - everyone else told by instructor what to wear in order to be uniform including how hair should be worn (even rehearsed that way) but then on performance day has some "little" thing (gauntlets or hair pieces, etc.) that clearly sets that person apart from everyone else. And if the instructor is dancing front and centre well then . . . you are not so much a unified troupe anymore as Diana Ross and the Supremes . . .

I think it is EGO. Whether conscious or unconscious, EGO nonetheless. Truly, when you have rehearsed either the movements and/or costuming a particular way over a period of time but then make small subtle changes on performance day and don't attribute it to an honest mistake which happens on the heat of the moment of performance then it boils down to EGO.

I think dancing with a troupe has helped me a lot. I don't know if I ever would have performed otherwise. What I like is while practicing with other dancers I can analyse the subtleties of their personal style, the things that are natural to them. If there's something I particularly like I can make it my own. Not steal their moves but try to achieve the same effect. My style grew in that way. I also like to choreo for a group, though.