Thread: Can't Zill and chew gum at the same time help

My instructor wants the class to learn a Chiftitelli rhythm with zills. I can do the rhythm easy enough. Until I have to move any other part of my body. I can walk and do it, that's about it.

This is so hard!!! (Do I have to learn zills?) I will be a good sport of cousre, but do you have any hints on how to unlock the rest of your body while clacking out a Chiftitelli? this is driving me bats that I can't do it.

Oh yeah, she also says to learn the finger cymbals when you are first starting out as opposed to later because it's harder later. Why is that?

chifti is 8 counts , or 4 long slow steps.walk and play first. wish i was there, i CAN teach dance with zills!
it is a passion!
once you get it, ...you willl feel so good!
after all, a chifti is 1 balady with 3 longas , pause !

Oh yeah, she also says to learn the finger cymbals when you are first starting out as opposed to later because it's harder later. Why is that?
***** ah, so you wont be writting this thread!
sorry, just could not resist.(.PLEASE FORGIVE )..all our students get zills after 3 weeks.they are NEVER removed, not even during veil.....it is just second nature, because you never danced with out them!
PM me if needed!

slow slow fast fast fast
slow slow fast

You can do figure 8's (vertical or horizontal). Azar, one of my former teachers, used to teacher is horizontal.

Basically what is happening is that you haven't incorporated zills and the dance movements / vocab into your muscle memory. Yet. This will come. It takes time and practice. And that is why you start from the very beginning learning and practicing with zills.

Oh, and if you want to hear a funny, when I was a baby belly, every time we were supposed to do a shimmy walk, I would have to shimmy in place for a second or three before I started walking, otherwise I couldn't do the two together! And don't say something which would draw my attention to what I am doing or I'd get stuck!

Get me into my head and I get completely lost! it's why I can't TEACH zills!

{{{{HUGS}}}

Your teacher is right. It's easier if you learn it earlier. Also easier if you don't spend much time sitting down to zill. I made that mistake and could zill like a madwoman... until I got up.

I dunno why -- maybe you have to burn some neural pathways to learn dance moves, then another set to learn zilling -- then, if you learned them separately, a third set for doing the two at the same time?

Practice walking around playing until you're VERY comfortable with that. Then try something simple like a step-lift or a figure 8. Do whatever drills your teacher gives you.

Also, practice 'air zilling' while you dance, saying the combos out loud as you move your fingers (or snap) in whatever pattern you're using.

I usually teach chifti first, too. It's not the most common rhythm, but it's never played uber-fast, so there's time to think & get used to playing.

Maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule?

I learned to dance before I learned to zill (did I just verb a noun???). I certainly wasn't a stellar performer, but I had a good vocabulary and decent technique.

When I first tried to play, I couldn't sustain a pattern even sitting down, let alone walking.

Once I got it, tho, I got it, and got pretty good at 'em pretty quickly. I don't think I got good at them pretty quickly because I'm some sort of quick study, but because I didn't have to think about creating movement as I could already do that in a "second nature" kind of way.

Personally, I might not be a BDer today if I had taken lessons from someone who made me zill from the very beginning, but I know that using zills from the beginning works for many, many students. Just maybe not for me.

<shrug>

Deborah

ETA: I'm a good solid zill player to 2/4, 4/4, 6/8 and 9/8. I didn't "grow up" with the "baladi" rhythm as I tended toward Turkish/Armenian/Greek music, but I'm now making progress with that, too. I can actually walk and play beledi at the same time -- I can even do hip drops with 'em! Hope for me yet -- after 30 years!

It is best to learn how to play zills early on. My instructor also recommends this.

I've seen ladies that dance beautifully...until you put zills on their fingers, then they look like a deer caught in headlight!!!
Or better yet this little guy...
.w.:

If you plan on dancing with zills, wear them!!!
Espcecially during (single) veil work, even if you're not playing them yet.

As for playing them right now...start slow, don't THINK about it too much!
Get the rythm, go a little faster (up to the speed of the music), and you'll be playing before you know it!!!

I practice zills without dancing, when I'm trying to learn a new rythm pattern. Sometimes, I just play them along to a pop song!
You'll get it!!!
:-)

My instructor never lets us stand still when we learn zills. Granted we were all just walking in a circle at first but we were moving ..l;,
Like everything worth doing - it takes practice - Whoa! "Mom" moment there. I am trtying to do my first zill piece this year - we'll see how it goes.

I agree that it's better to learn zills early on and to play them while moving (at least in elementary ways) right off -- that way you don't have that mental block about trying to combine the two.

It might help if you start practicing zilling with simple movement before going on to any complex dance moves. A friend of mine, when she was first learning, used to practice zills while she was jogging. The repetitive nature of her running steps gave her a way to move without thinking about it so she could concentrate on the cymbals until she became more comfortable with them. No word on whether people she passed on the track thought she was weird...g.:

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule?

I learned to dance before I learned to zill (did I just verb a noun???). I certainly wasn't a stellar performer, but I had a good vocabulary and decent technique.

When I first tried to play, I couldn't sustain a pattern even sitting down, let alone walking.

Once I got it, tho, I got it, and got pretty good at 'em pretty quickly. I don't think I got good at them pretty quickly because I'm some sort of quick study, but because I didn't have to think about creating movement as I could already do that in a "second nature" kind of way.

Personally, I might not be a BDer today if I had taken lessons from someone who made me zill from the very beginning, but I know that using zills from the beginning works for many, many students. Just maybe not for me.

<shrug>

Deborah

ETA: I'm a good solid zill player to 2/4, 4/4, 6/8 and 9/8. I didn't "grow up" with the "baladi" rhythm as I tended toward Turkish/Armenian/Greek music, but I'm now making progress with that, too. I can actually walk and play beledi at the same time -- I can even do hip drops with 'em! Hope for me yet -- after 30 years!

I am very much in the same boat - I would not have stuck with bellydance if I had been forced to zill from the beginning. I had plenty of trouble without 'em ;-) Granted, I was among the students most lacking in natural talent ever, bellydance did not come easy to me. I had no ear for rhythm, and it would have been a major, major disaster for everybody if I had been expected way back then to steadily reproduce a rhythm that I didn't even hear ;-)

Flipside for me was - when I was ready to learn zills, I was on my own. Today, I like to practice while walking around town - and as a result, I can zill steadily and move and pay attention to other things at the same time (I can safely cross a major intersection against the light with my iPod on and playing zills). And, given how I approached zills, I now have a pretty solid understanding of rhythms and how zill patterns relate to the music.

So, in my case, too, the path of learning zills later has been a good one.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

slow slow fast fast fast
slow slow fast

You can do figure 8's (vertical or horizontal). Azar, one of my former teachers, used to teacher is horizontal.

slow=right hand fast=left:

slow slow fast slow slow slow fast slow slow rightleftright, rightleftright, rightleftright (those last three are like "giddyap giddyap giddyap)

This is the rhythm we are learning. IT's like 18 counts all together. I have little interest in zils, but if the majority says it's a necessary skill to learn, I'll try.

Doing figure 8's during this? You've got to be kidding..l;,

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

Oh yeah, she also says to learn the finger cymbals when you are first starting out as opposed to later because it's harder later. Why is that?

SO TRUE! I just started learning zils after 7 years of BD and want to kill myself...it's like learning to dance all over again, complete with robotic moves, losing the beat because you're concentrating on the rhythm, body/brain ADD. The more time you have to learn with them the better....just keep clankin' along :)

(stamps foot) but I don't even like them

Finger cymbals were the bane of my dance. First instructer played 'one, two, three' infinitum. Regardless of the rhythm the musician was playing.

Second instuctor played at warp speed. Attempting to perform her choreography & warp speed zills lead to the inevitable crash of emotions. Tossed those tortious instruments into a corner and it would be ten years before I could forgive them for existing.

During a heated debate with another dancer it dawned on me the feet land on 'doms' of the drum. In beledi the first two dom's count as one for your foot. Essentially your feet are keeping time with the drum. (And the weight shifts occur on the doms. In the future it can change, but when beginning this makes it easier).

Your hands are learning to play the rhythm, while your feet keep time. Then add the dance. "Zill playing and chewing gum." When you become familiar and comfortable playing (this could be a year), then counter rhythms are a delicous form of mischief.

I taught this concept to a class at a seminar and had several come up to me afterward stating that was the first time they could get their feet to move with their zills and still dance.

A great cd to practice with is by Sayed Balaha. 'Oriental Grooves'...Oriental rhythms for training. Each rhythm is titled and played at progressive speeds.

The last tip is to practice arm paths. While playing zills.
1) Up the side of your body, extending over your head.
2) Down and extended forward, in front of your body.
3) Return to center and extended out to the sides.
4) Return to center, and down your body.
5) Out, circling over your head, return to start postion, then back.

The point of this is two fold~ to prevent practicing of zills in a stationary position you can't seem to change and looking for difficult positions for your hands to play in.

For an extra challenge... Do the arm paths with one hand behind your back and one in motion of the paths. Not as easy as it sounds.

Good luck and have fun.

Suzanne Azhaar

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

(stamps foot) but I don't even like them

Then just don't play 'em ;-)

It's not as if everybody has to love zills, and if you don't feel motivated to add zills to your dance, chances are that you won't play them in a way that is enjoyable to you, the other dancers, or your audience.

My suggestion is to walk around first (just stroll around the room THINKING about zilling for a minute or so) AND THAN air zill while you're walking, once you've got the motion going try it with zills.
For me, I have to get my legs and feet going BEFORE I can zill. I know that sounds odd b/c it's just walking, but that's the way my brain is wired.

Originally Posted by JeanneLF

A friend of mine, when she was first learning, used to practice zills while she was jogging. The repetitive nature of her running steps gave her a way to move without thinking about it so she could concentrate on the cymbals until she became more comfortable with them. No word on whether people she passed on the track thought she was weird...g.:

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;, I do this (just air zilling though) while running. People walking their dogs just look like this:.w.:

It might help to put on your favorite (not necessarily BD) dance music, put on the zills, and dance around however you like playing whatever you want.

Doing that helped me see the point.

Originally Posted by steffib

Then just don't play 'em ;-)

It's not as if everybody has to love zills, and if you don't feel motivated to add zills to your dance, chances are that you won't play them in a way that is enjoyable to you, the other dancers, or your audience.

Thank You! You're so right Steffib, I hate zills and in my 20 years of dancing I have taken class after class after class trying to learn the darn things. My zills sound like trash cans lids and the neighborhood dogs howl. I can only imagaine what the audience must think! ..l;,
Patricia

Oh, and if you want to hear a funny, when I was a baby belly, every time we were supposed to do a shimmy walk, I would have to shimmy in place for a second or three before I started walking, otherwise I couldn't do the two together! And don't say something which would draw my attention to what I am doing or I'd get stuck!

Funnily enough, Tahira, I tell my students if they are stuggling to move something to get it going still first- or, if the brain implodes midway, to stop, get it going again still and then continue moving.

Just found it helps- probably 'cos it lets you get all the ducks aligned before firingg them off?

Originally Posted by tink

A great cd to practice with is by Sayed Balaha. 'Oriental Grooves'...Oriental rhythms for training. Each rhythm is titled and played at progressive speeds.

The last tip is to practice arm paths. While playing zills.
1) Up the side of your body, extending over your head.
2) Down and extended forward, in front of your body.
3) Return to center and extended out to the sides.
4) Return to center, and down your body.
5) Out, circling over your head, return to start postion, then back.

The point of this is two fold~ to prevent practicing of zills in a stationary position you can't seem to change and looking for difficult positions for your hands to play in.

For an extra challenge... Do the arm paths with one hand behind your back and one in motion of the paths. Not as easy as it sounds.

Good luck and have fun.

Suzanne Azhaar

Good advise. I checked out that CD and it seems everyone has it back ordered.,m:: There is one guy on amazon that is actually trying to sell it for $85!