Thread: eeeek I have a guy in my class!!!!

Ok it is not a bad thing, He is pretty cool, I have never taught a guy before. He is a Marine and an amature body builder, I think he is also intrested in BD for other than Body building Purposes, We are in a drilling session right now but starting next week we will be starting a choreo. I am unsure of arm positions, for him, I am also worried that it may all be to girly for him. The classic Damsel in destress hand behind head arm extended is a default arm positin I use often..........any suggestions? So far he is pretty good at the basics, has trouble with undulations and shouder shimmies from the weight lifting.........All suggestions are welcome........ZORBA????..c::..c::

Do everything the same. He doesn't need to "masculinise", he has a man's body. If you're really worried about hands and arms, just take the ones you consider ultragirly out of the choreo.

Undulations are not easy beginner moves so having trouble is no surprise. Shoulder shimmies are also hard for a lot of people at first, so no surprise. Let him have time to learn!

fewwwwwww thanks for the reasurance, I feel like if it is too girly I will loose him as a student ya know, I will loose the damsel in destress arm posision and see what happens....

We have a male in our class. Our instructor just used the choreography that she was going to teach. Costumes were sometimes a challenge but eventually were worked out quite nicely.

I know Laura2 has had guys in her class. Hopefully she'll see this and chime in.

this is a good thing!
in other forms of dance, there has always been men.it is good to see this opening up .body builders really need dance ! they get stiff, and get in their own way.
i found some arm positions a problem, due to the over sizeing of the upper arm.....good for you!
keep the doors and minds open.i had NEVER heard of "no men " ever in dance, untill i got to M E dance.i have had foemal training since 1953.

I have had lots of guys in my classes. Just teach everything the same but be prepared to come up with non-girly alternatives if they ask. It's better if you pretend you don't notice they are guys.

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

It's better if you pretend you don't notice they are guys.

At last... Someone who really GETS IT!!
Anwynn, if you haven't seen my (brief) article on teaching a male student:

Male Student, Now What?

Otherwise, good advice already in this thread. Weight lifter types often have problems unlocking themselves - but guys in general tend to be locked up anyways. It took me 1.2 forevers to be able to get my hips to move. 1.97658 forevers to be able to do shoulder shimmies - it took me awhile to find the necessary muscles, then the one on the left was non-existent so I had to develop it! Teach him just like anyone else, and have him do the same movements as everyone else. His learning curve is likely to be different as he'll probably have different strengths and weaknesses than what you're used to.

WOW Zorba, Thank you! Ive been panicked but this really helps

"You'll be used to presenting things in a feminine context. Don't over-compensate for the sake of your male. Most likely, he expects you to present things in a feminine context - and will be embarrassed if you are obviously "bending over backwards" for his sake. "

Thank you so much!

Glad it helps! If there's anything you can suggest to improve that article, please let me know!

Panic often seems to be a teacher's reaction - one of my instructors was VERY panicked (although I didn't find out about that until years later) when I started. She was also obviously very uncomfortable too - she just wasn't sure if I was "for real" or not, she "got better" once she met my wife.

Im not really uncomfortable- It deosnt bother me (other than he is quite attractive which is a good thing, I think) I was just so panicked when he showed, he was all ready to go in sweats, and very nervous too. Maybe that rubed off on me and I panicked. Either way this article helped, Every time I said ok next movement, I though omg this is too girly I have to change it. SO thank you so much this really really helps....

When I taught the dance majors at the university, there were lots of men in the group. Here's what I told them:

Some men feel like having arms overhead or behind the head is too vulnerable or feminine for them, and prefer to modify the arm positions. Other men are perfectly comfortable doing the choreo with no changes. Please feel free to modify the arms IF you feel like you want to.

And I show them the typical male Arab arm stance (hands out about shoulder height in front of the shoulders, loose fists or snapping).

It might be useful to share some Tito clips if you show any videos in class. He doesn't modify much -- if anything -- yet he looks plenty masculine because he's a man and comfortable in his skin.

Originally Posted by annwyn

...he was all ready to go in sweats, and very nervous too.

Yep, sounds like a typical male in his first BD class! It sure was me! ..l;,

Originally Posted by Lauren_

It might be useful to share some Tito clips if you show any videos in class. He doesn't modify much -- if anything -- yet he looks plenty masculine because he's a man and comfortable in his skin.

Utterly true. The best ones DON'T modify - Tito, Tarik, DaVid are all great examples. If you can find video of the long retired Aziz - he's my #1 male role model; he transcended gender as I try to do.

Another thing I'll share - I haven't included it in the article partly because I just learned about it myself; and partly because I'm not sure how appropo it would be in that particular place. But it may help you understand the typical reaction that many people have to a male dancer/student, especially dance sisters in a beginning class.

Anyway, a dance sister recently told me the following: The first time she saw me dance (she wasn't a dancer/student yet), she went through what she says she's since seen MANY times; over and over again in others watching me or one of the other local males. First, disbelief. This has gotta be some kind of joke. Stifled laughter. Second, maybe not. He's doing it. Third, uh, he's REALLY doing it. Pretty well. Fourth, OMG, he's serious about it. He's a real dancer, not the pastiche I was expecting. And in her particular case: Fifth. Anger - not at the male dancer - but with the situation "If *HE* can do it, *I* certainly can!" ..l;,

This is how this particular gal was motivated to become a dancer. I do remember a conversation I had with her in class early on about the appropriateness of males doing veilwork - she's now a very good friend of both myself and my wife!

Not sure where this little story fits into this thread, but thought it might help somewhere/somehow...

I used to dance with a guy (last troupe i was in) and I went through the stages that you described...but add one. We all assumed he was gay. Now was that a mother of all assumptions!

What uesd to make me really angry was the giggling that went on when ever he appeared on stage...I know that he used to pick and choose where he performed because of this.

Above all relax and enjoy and allow him to develop the way you'd let all your other students develop.

One thing -have you considered talking to him about what he wants to get out of the dance...the same one I'm sure you'd have the conversation with all of your students.

Don't know if this will help you at all Annwyn but I have a funny story about a guy in one of my classes.
A couple of years back I had an Army guy and his wife take my class. They were looking for moves that they might be able to incorporate into their competition routines for body building and arobic competitions. Well we started that first class and I treated him just like everyone else. Right up until shoulder shimmies. Because the class was maxed out I had everyone standing in a circle and when we started I had my back to him and to be totally honest I kinda forgot he was there.
I made the joke about the "girls" going along for the ride with the shimmy and that this was where you found out if you wore the right bra to class. It always makes students laugh and relax a little...well normally it does. About the time the words left my mouth I had turned and was facing him. Due to the fact he was so muscle bound from weight lifting and building the upper body up he was really struggling to try and even move his shoulders. So being the cut up he turned out to be, he starts flexing his pec muscles. I squeeked into the microphone headset and turned about six shades of red becuase I was trying not to laugh. After that anytime I turned in his direction during shoulder work he would start that flex just to crack me up. It also really seemed to put the other female students at ease that he would crack jokes and be a bit silly with things he didn't get right away.

Originally Posted by Jamtab

I used to dance with a guy (last troupe i was in) and I went through the stages that you described...but add one. We all assumed he was gay. Now was that a mother of all assumptions!

I forgot about that one - mainly because it doesn't bother me. I've had some VERY surprised and even shocked reactions when people in general, and dance sisters in particular, find out that I'm straight and married! I was once approached post performance by a group of guys, whom in retrospect I assume were gays, who complimented me and though I was "even braver" when they found out I was straight. Whatever!

What used to make me really angry was the giggling that went on when ever he appeared on stage...I know that he used to pick and choose where he performed because of this.

I don't get a lot of this, but I do get some. It tends to make me stand up prouder and give the giggler some "special" attention if I can work it in. "See something you like, Princess?". Reminds me of a troupe performance I was in at a local street faire. One of the members of the Country & Western band that came on after us asked me "Did you lose a bet?" (They'd been laughing at my expense during our performance). I handed him a business card and said "No, but I think you just did!". The look on his face was priceless!

You need a thick skin, and one HELL of a sense of humor to be a male Belly Dancer!

Originally Posted by zorba

I don't get a lot of this, but I do get some. It tends to make me stand up prouder and give the giggler some "special" attention if I can work it in. "See something you like, Princess?". Reminds me of a troupe performance I was in at a local street faire. One of the members of the Country & Western band that came on after us asked me "Did you lose a bet?" (They'd been laughing at my expense during our performance). I handed him a business card and said "No, but I think you just did!". The look on his face was priceless!

You need a thick skin, and one HELL of a sense of humor to be a male Belly Dancer!

This is really good advice for any dancer - take everything in stride and with a sense of humor. After all, when people react this way it's not about you, it's about them. Well played, Zorba!

Originally Posted by LeylaFahada

After all, when people react this way it's not about you, it's about them.

This is absolutely correct! I've developed quite the knack of turning it back onto themselves, whether it be my dancing, or my appearance in mundane life. Its quite fun seeing people struggle with their pre-conceptions - and quite often, seeing them grow! Someone gawking at me on the street? Look right at them, smile and wave! Someone looking a bit scared? Smile, and engage them in a friendly conversation! Someone giggling when I'm performing? Stand up straighter, prouder, and do my very best - just for them!

I've had more than one person tell me "You know when I first met you, I thought..." "... but I was wrong. You're OK!". That means I helped them grow - and it makes my day!

I used to dance with a guy (last troupe i was in) and I went through the stages that you described...but add one. We all assumed he was gay. Now was that a mother of all assumptions!

I must say I do get bored of all the is he?/isn't he? speculation that seems to go on about male dancers.

I just can't see why people want to expend so much energy wondering about this sort of thing, especially considering that its really not of any importance, one way or the other.

Originally Posted by khadiya

I must say I do get bored of all the is he?/isn't he? speculation that seems to go on about male dancers.

I just can't see why people want to expend so much energy wondering about this sort of thing, especially considering that its really not of any importance, one way or the other.

You and me both. Who gives a ****? I sure don't.

Originally Posted by khadiya View Post
I must say I do get bored of all the is he?/isn't he? speculation that seems to go on about male dancers.

I just can't see why people want to expend so much energy wondering about this sort of thing, especially considering that its really not of any importance, one way or the other.

Ouch...hey guys I was only being honest and providing another viewpoint. Regardless of whether or not you're enlightened enough for someone's sexual preference not to be an issue, the reality it is for some people. As a teacher it is worth knowing all the issues and how to deal with them.

To me it's no different than educating about appropriate dance costuming for example!

Ouch...hey guys I was only being honest and providing another viewpoint. Regardless of whether or not you're enlightened enough for someone's sexual preference not to be an issue, the reality it is for some people. As a teacher it is worth knowing all the issues and how to deal with them.

To me it's no different than educating about appropriate dance costuming for example!

I wasn't specifically criticizing you Jamtab - please don't take it that way. My intent was merely to flag up how alienated and disappointed this sort of needless tittle-tattle makes me feel.

I'd agree that as a teacher one has to be aware that there can be issues in terms of students' beliefs and 'baggage'. However, I'd dispute that these are of equal importance to learning about the dance in class. I think its absolutely acceptable for a teacher to expect his/her students to concentrate on dancing (and the immediate issues pertaining to that) in class.

Originally Posted by Jamtab

Ouch...hey guys I was only being honest and providing another viewpoint. Regardless of whether or not you're enlightened enough for someone's sexual preference not to be an issue, the reality it is for some people. As a teacher it is worth knowing all the issues and how to deal with them.

To me it's no different than educating about appropriate dance costuming for example!

It's good to bring it up. For me it's not something I think about, not because I am enlightened, but more because there are so many other things to talk about, such as where did he get that costume? did you *see* those shimmies etc. etc.

Another good example to watch would be Amir Thaleb. I love his dancing. He has many of the same moves we do as women but with the masculine edge. I also second the watching of Tito as well. He is another fabulous male dancer.

Lisa

Originally Posted by KelsNasim

I know Laura2 has had guys in her class. Hopefully she'll see this and chime in.

Last session, the husband of one of my troupe members joined my Beginning class. Like many others have already said, I treated him just like everyone else and it went over fine.

I did get a little flustered when I used the "hooks in your bra, pulling you up" explanation for chest lifts, but his wife told me he'd dressed up as a woman years ago for Halloween - so he actually did know what having a bra on felt like! ..l;,

Originally Posted by laura 2

I did get a little flustered when I used the "hooks in your bra, pulling you up" explanation for chest lifts, but his wife told me he'd dressed up as a woman years ago for Halloween - so he actually did know what having a bra on felt like! ..l;,

Even if he hadn't; most guys know their way around a bra well enough ..g.: to be able to figure it out!

Originally Posted by zorba

Utterly true. The best ones DON'T modify - Tito, Tarik, DaVid are all great examples. If you can find video of the long retired Aziz - he's my #1 male role model; he transcended gender as I try to do.

I LOVED Aziz!! I wish I could find some videos of him...cr.:

Originally Posted by Shirin.

I LOVED Aziz!! I wish I could find some videos of him...cr.:

I know they're "out there", the one I saw years ago was a VERY BAD bootleg copy that came from Goddess only knows where...