Thread: Has prop use become a mask to cover lack of dance skill?

It seems as though everywhere I look - youtube, workshop announcements, bhuz swap meet, etc., people are talking about props. They're wanting to learn 'em, buy em, get videos with 'em, teach 'em.

There's rectangular veil, circular veil, single veil, double veil, quadruple veil, veil poi (or voi), fan veil, Isis wings, and melaya leff.

There's single cane, double cane, men's stick.

There's handheld candles, candle tray, and shamadan.

There's single sword, double sword, flaming sword.

There's the folkloric angle of pots, Moroccan tea trays, Turkish spoons, tambourines, and baskets.

And then lots of other stuff that's actually not belly dancing at all, but people are mixing it with belly dance anyway: poi, hula hoops, Thai fingers, knives, etc.

Have we gone overboard on the props? Has all our prop passion caused us to lose sight of musical interpretation, emotional passion, and dance technique? Is our stampede to embrace the latest prop fad distracting us from honing our craft of just plain good dancing?

This season, as I watched "So You Think You Can Dance", it has hit me - props are rare on that show. The performers seem quite capable of being amazing dancers without waving around all these extra things. They don't need prop "party tricks" to impress us. About the only time a prop gets used is when it is needed to help tell a story, and then it's not so much an integral part of the dance.


I think the true test of a prop is this: would the stuff the dancer is doing still look like fabulous belly dancing if you took away the prop?

Some dancers do use props to disguise their bad dancing. Some dancers just use them because it is exciting to the general public.
I for one am sick of seeing isis wings and poi veils. Fan veils are starting to get old also...

You can't cover up bad dancing with props - because if you are a weak dancer you will probably also suck at dancing with the prop...
Dancing with a prop is an extra skill that needs to be learned just as much as "only" dancing.

MEISSOUN

I think the true test of a prop is this: would the stuff the dancer is doing still look like fabulous belly dancing if you took away the prop?

I have to agree. I think that props can be amazing fun to learn and to dance with (though I'm not convinced by the more off-beat ones like Thai fingers) and they can be a great self-contained challenge for the dancer.

When one sees a truly fantastic dancer with a prop, the prop is like a garnish on a beautiful dish - it complements and adds something but its not a substitute for the main course.

However, all too often a prop is something that dancers hide behind or that is used as a rather desperate gimmick.

My experience of dancing with props is that as a dancer you have to up your game to get an audience to 'see you' and to be able to be expressive and communicate with them. Its easy to get swamped by a prop and its easy for an audience to focus only on the prop - prop blindness.

Because of this, dancing with a prop can be a positive challenge for a dancer in terms of projection and skill but many do not rise to the challenge.

*guiltily reviews own dancing with props and slinks off*

I love when a skilled dancer uses a prop beautifully. We have one dancer in the area who does an amazing double veil, but she is also a fabulous dancer, so in her case, the prop enhances her show. We have two dancers who have great sword routines; again, both of them are stellar dancers. On the other end, I have seen a lot of dancers use props to enhance shows because their dancing is not the best. They hide behind the props because they have to; their dancing could not stand on its own.

Yes, I think we have gone overboard with props and too many dancers use them as a crutch to disguise their actual skill level as a dancer. I would rather see a 20 minute show by a skilled dancer with no props, rather than a show filled with every prop able to be used, all wielded by a so-so dancer. Props get old fast, good dancing does not!!

For me, it really has to do with venue. At a showcase I get sick of looking at isis wings after three numbers. However, at a restaurant where a normal set includes plenty of plain old dancing, I think props are an integral part of the show.

I haven't experienced that people are prop crazy. I think they just suffer from the "I want to do something different!" sickness when it comes to staged shows. It's the same with using all pop music and doing fusion pieces. People want to stand out, and what the forget is that everyone is doing something to "stand out." My friend and I have a big desire to do a short duo using no props or fusion music at a stage show so we can "stand out." .w.:

From an audience point of view though, props can definitely add a visual 'way in', especially if they are not familiar with watching dance or with music/dance from another culture.

I like my props, but I don't use them all the time and in fact, am looking still for proper instruction on how to use the Isis wings, sword and cane. What else is left, you may wonder? ..l;, Veil. I love my veil. Sometimes I take it out and just wrap myself in it~ I think part of the adoration comes from the way one instructor taught the veil. We were to emote- we are 'angry' with the veil, we are 'in love' with the veil, the veil is 'a scared child' and so-on-an-so-forth. I find the veil comforting. Eek, ummm... Is this TMI? ..l;,

Perhaps the answer lies more in the consistency of use in the prop? If a person is unable to perform without it, perhaps that person may benefit from more dance instruction?

I like most of the prop dances as they add another dimension to what is happening. Unfortunately, I see too many performances where (for example) the veil/veils are moved around all over the place and in beautiful shapes and configurations but the dancer is basically just standing there. I really enjoyed the performance by the young boy from Puerto Rico that was posted dancing with his poi veil...because he really was dancing, not just manipulating the prop!

Ooh- question: are zills considered a prop in this thread?

Well, I think maybe the dancers are eager to learn something new to them and are eager to perform MAYBE when they shouldn't. I think it's impossible to cover up bad dancing with props b/c NORMALLY, (not always) the props end up being just as bad.

Really though if you think about it, how long have dancers been dancing with zills, veil and sword in the American Cabaret version. I can honestly say that those three props are BY FAR my least favorite and I'd openly welcome a prop performance of cane, or Tahtib. It's still "new" compared to sword dancing. Do you know what I mean by new. I know dancers have being doing if for ever in Egypt but it's still a newer prop for American dancers.

Originally Posted by maranajla

Ooh- question: are zills considered a prop in this thread?

Well you could definitely NOT use zills to cover up bad dancing, they are to small - plus you have to be really good at them to impress. And I guess if you are that experienced you will also be a decent dancer otherwise.

No way you could cover up bad dancing with bad zilling ..c::

And generally zills are regarded as an instrument, not a prop.

MEISSOUN

I do my share of prop dancing - but I generally limit it to one per routine. Part of the allure of props is the "ooh-PRETTY!" reaction we all have upon seeing a new one. Veil fans are just the latest manifestation of this - I saw someone dance with them: "ooh-PRETTY, Zorba wants!" ..g.:

About the only prop I'm REALLY tired of seeing is the sword. I don't even have a sword dance in my repitoire because of this. We don't see enough Isis wings or veils in my area I guess (to be sick of them). I'm the only dancer in my area that does Shemadan for whatever reason.

I was the only dancer who did double veil in my area for several years - now there are a couple of more, but their style is very different from mine.

I haven't bothered with a lot of props as quite a few are "seen one, you've seen them all". Why bother with candle tray when you dance Shemadan? Etc.

But so far as covering bad dancing with props, we've all seen it, and we've all probably done it. My very first solo included veilwork - partially because I've always been partial to the veil, and partially because I didn't have enough moves to carry a five minute routine! What can I say, I was a baby belly.

Nowadays its kinda the opposite with me - I've said everything I have to say with this veil, time to get rid of it so I can actually *dance*! And I agree: Zills are NOT a prop. My hands feel naked without them.

i think SOME dancers who lack skill use certain props to hide their lack of skill, especially to get the initial 'wow' factor that will tell the general public 'aren't i great? i can do this!'

i've also seen props used by stellar dancers to amazing effect! some people have their specialties............but not as a 'look at me' but, 'i love this thing n the stuff i can do with it'......FUN with a prop....especially when used to appropriate music.........

sometimes you hear a piece of music that just SCREAMS 'fire', or 'tahtib', or double veil..........THAT is when it's effective......

my fave is sword, but i haven't done it much lately cuz it is done SO much at haflas and festivals.............

props are amazing when used judiciously and WELL.....

Originally Posted by banatsusan

Unfortunately, I see too many performances where (for example) the veil/veils are moved around all over the place and in beautiful shapes and configurations but the dancer is basically just standing there.

One of the things I tell me students about prop dancing is that if you take the prop away, you should still be left with an interesting dance. I encourage them (and do it myself) to run through their dance at least a couple of times without the prop, and try to gauge if it's still interesting. If not, you need more dance in your prop dancing.

I think the big gravitational pull toward props is twofold: one, Joe Public loves and demands them. If you get any sort of paid gig, even restaurants, you gotta do some kind of prop. Our troupe's most popular piece is our wing piece, and we hardly dance at all in it. We rarely get requests to perform our more technical pieces (which are way more fun to dance!), even for mainly dancer audiences.

Two, new dancers see them as "cool" and perhaps *think* they can seem more impressive with a prop.

I've been dancing for 8 years and I just picked up my first sword last month. It was heavy. And it was REALLY hard!! I agree whole-heartedly that dancing with a prop is a separate skill. I wonder though, if it is easier to learn to dance well and then pick up a prop, or incorporate your prop(s) into your learning from day 1? I find I'm more skilled with a cane or a veil, but perhaps this is only because my teacher incorporated them fairly early on in my training, and zills and sword were not.

I also wonder if teachers/directors/choreographers find it easier to use props like veil in group pieces rather than a straight up group choreo with no props? (i.e. for students)

I hear zils should be learned near the beginning. Not the literal beginning but once you get comfortable enough to do some basic moves. I sometimes think I may struggle with zills because of being introduced to them later.

I imagine incorporating a prop is extra work for a group. You have to make sure your students can both dance and handle the prop, as well as make sure there is enough room for veil or that everyone is really synchronized like zills.

I don't think the audience (not comprised of dancers) really can see the bad dancing when using a prop. All they see is the prop. Regarding finger cymbals, I have also seen dancers who basically just shake their hips while playing, not really dancing with them, yet the audience loves them.

Originally Posted by laura 2

One of the things I tell me students about prop dancing is that if you take the prop away, you should still be left with an interesting dance.

this is basically what i was taught. the prop highlights your dance, and is never the center of attention.

A friend who is a very experienced dancer was recently in another school's show and was asked what prop she was going to use. She replied that she was just going to dance which struck some people as odd.

However, I admit with a group of beginners a big length of chiffon can disguise less than stellar body control. If their hips aren't precise it doesn't matter as their friends see the veil moving and are happy. With experienced dancers the prop should be icing not the whole thing.

Gotta say that I love double veil, but when it's a 4 to 6 minute song full of barrel turns & spins. I want to leave!

I've seen dancers do a choreography, just to have one or two disappear off stage, come back on and spin across in front of the other dancers with isis wings.

Have to say that I found that annoying as it not only distracted from the choreography, I was left thinking "And the point of that exercise was???????"

I have seen some beautiful sword dancing and a dancer in Brisbane (Saghira from Brisbane AMED) does a stunning 4 meter veil.

AS for zills. I teach them from day one and co-ordinate the with steps. 1 2 3's and 1 2 3 4's.

I can not stand it when teachers get their students to just stand and play, then expect them to start 'magically' moving around while still playing after weeks of standing still with them. 99% of the time, that just doesn't work. I find some great zill players in my zill workshops, but they can't move and play!

rant over, lol.

does 20,000 barrel turns and runs :)

I hate dancing with props, so I quite like going "ew, PROPS". But having said that I know perfectly well the only reason I hate them is because I am unco.

Yep, some dancers round here are very proppy, but that's not entirely down to what they learn in classes, rather the kinds of workshops they've chosen to attend and the kinds of dancers they hang round with.

Originally Posted by meissoun

You can't cover up bad dancing with props - because if you are a weak dancer you will probably also suck at dancing with the prop...
Dancing with a prop is an extra skill that needs to be learned just as much as "only" dancing.

MEISSOUN

Here! Here! I'll drink to that because I completely agree.

At Rak this weekend, I was amazed at how many fan veil numbers I saw...and I was even more amazed at the applause the dancers would get from just standing there and waving their fan up in the air. Yeah, it looked cool, but there is no skill involved there! The dancer is just standing still and waving a fan! The fan is doing all the work!

I couldn't believe it - the audience seemed to love the non-dancing, though.

I love my shamadan BUT what I hate is multiple prop use 97 veils plus sword plus zills etc-unnecessary one prop used well is all you need in a show. Props should be the last gasp not the I'm trotting this out because...and Ok the GP loves props but they also respond to good dancing and someone who can entertain.

I have to admit, I'm a sucker for props, especially cane. I don't like seeing them used poorly, but when they're used well, it's SO fun!

But yes, I agree with the above points that they can turn into a crutch.

Seldom do I like props in MED, but the general public really does seem to like them.

I don't think they're always a crutch. Some dancers are really good at using props as an extension of their dancing. I guess I just don't think the dance needs extra to be beautiful.

Originally Posted by Veil_Dancer

does 20,000 barrel turns and runs :)

Nice flounce!

Zills are a musical instrument and not a prop. You play them...not present them...

I like props, but sometimes they stress me out. Is my veil, cane or sword a crutch? Maybe. I guess no more so than my shimmy is. I swish around a prop for a bit, I shimmy, and I look very sparkly. That's the current extent of the Nitara show. Maybe next year I'll be back in touch with my inner Om K.

I like to see other folks use props, too. I just want to be entertained. The one thing that can annoy me is when you see a drum solo with zills, sword and/or veil at the same time. That's more stupid human trick than entertainment.