Thread: I feel so... childish

So I've been studying dance for a number of years now. Granted its never been the only thing I'm doing at any one time with school and work and everything else, but I love it and I've given it quite a bit of attention.

Now I'm reading these boards and hearing about "Teacher Training" certification. I didn't even know that existed. Someone posted a link to the JWAAD (which I'd never heard of) certification application and I read it over.

I feel like a little kid in her mother's high heels.

I couldn't answer half of those questions! Some of those styles she has listed as examples I'd never seen in my life (khaleegy? magrebi? What?) I had no idea "orential" was considered a specific dance style... I thought it was more of a broad adjective. And to be completely honest, while I could name drop some famous ME dancers and namedrop some western ones, I couldn't say any of them influenced me. I mean, my teachers have influenced me... and the girls I've actually danced with. I didn't know we had to be fangirls to qualify. And I don't think I can name 5 ME instruments that don't exist in the west. Maybe 3.

Yikes. All of a sudden I feel pretty worthless. And like all those years I've spent with dance haven't taught me anything. ..cr.:

But isn't that the fun of it, Sarai? That, no matter how long we've studied, we can still feel like children? Part of what calls to me about this dance is that there is so much more to uncover. Each path of learning I take leads me to another one, yet unexplored. There's always a new style, a new rhythm, a new instrument, new layers, new techniques, even new costuming to try! Isn't that awesome, and fun, and freeing???

None of us will ever be done with learning. We will always be children, and that's so cool. Approach it like a child - with wide eyes, wonderment, openness and thirst for understanding. Dive in!

Originally Posted by MakedaMaysa

But isn't that the fun of it, Sarai? That, no matter how long we've studied, we can still feel like children? Part of what calls to me about this dance is that there is so much more to uncover. Each path of learning I take leads me to another one, yet unexplored. There's always a new style, a new rhythm, a new instrument, new layers, new techniques, even new costuming to try! Isn't that awesome, and fun, and freeing???

None of us will ever be done with learning. We will always be children, and that's so cool. Approach it like a child - with wide eyes, wonderment, openness and thirst for understanding. Dive in!

Thanks for this, Makeda! This is a very good thing to always keep in mind! I was hitting those "I-feel-about-this(tiny)-big" moments as I uncoordinatedly (is that an actual adverb?) tried to go through a vid last night for my 90-day program. I felt miserable & so "remedial" and a bit of a "fake", a poser(?)... But I did remember that in my martial arts studies, the sifus/senseis always stressed from Day 1 the point that you are an "eternal student" throughout your lifetime & not to focus on your belt rank/color (in the case of raks sharqi - certifications, gigs, contracts, etc.) b/c even Black Belts have to continue studying...

Hi Sarai,

That is one of the great things about this dance, just when you think you've got it, something new comes into light and than you get to fit more pieces of the puzzle together and eventually, you see what a big beautiful picture bellydance is throughout the world. It's not just American Cab. or Turkish, or Egyptian style, there are soooooo many other styles out there that are waiting to be learned.

I've been doing this for 10 yrs. and I just learned about the hankie dance. I never new there was such a thing. We each come into new information at different points in our lives and that it makes learning easier. We can ask each other here on Bhuz, "Does anyone know about damper dancing" (made that up) and it's guaranteed that someone on this board will get you the information you are looking for. It's GREAT.

I feel lucky that I can answer all of those questions (meaning I was familiar with all the terms used, I wouldn't say I am familiar with Maghrebi dance, but I know what the Maghreb is) - and a lot of it is thanks to Bhuz (some also to the great teachers around here, workshops, etc).

I would say to use this question list as a goal list - like the way some people use the Purity test.

After sixteen+ years I am still learning. Sometimes it ca be frustrating--"Why have I never heard that?!"--but mostly I have learned to love it. This dance form is not static, and will never get boring!

I am *sure* your dance years have taught you lots. Sometimes we only learn what we are ready to, and when it is time other things start popping us that push us out of our comfort zone. Sounds like you might be ready for a growth spurt? The good news is it is just the beginning. Enjoy the ride!

Sarai, when I was a "newbie" (a few years ago), I was fortunate enough to become friends with a fellow dancer with over 20 years of experience who enjoyed sharing her knowledge about the dance, which included sharing videos of the stars of Egyptian dance, learning about the different styles of Middle Eastern dance, music, etc. I also happened to take classes or workshops with some amazing teachers (including Cory Zamora, Amina Goodyear, Morocco (Aunt Rocky) and others) who make sharing this knowledge a part of their teaching.

My first teacher wasn't into any of this either - just the moves/steps, etc. If I hadn't ventured out to other teachers - which I did at first through pure luck, I moved and just "happened" to go to Amina's class in San Francisco - I wouldn't know any of this stuff either! I was also really lucky to meet my friend/mentor, because she acquainted me with alot of it ("you don't know what you don't know").

It's great that you CAN get a lot of this info on Bhuz! It would also be great if you can get to some good workshops as well that will broaden your dance horizons.

-Devora

Originally Posted by _Sarai_

... while I could name drop some famous ME dancers and namedrop some western ones, I couldn't say any of them influenced me. I mean, my teachers have influenced me... and the girls I've actually danced with. I didn't know we had to be fangirls to qualify....

Sarai,
I don't think this is what they're getting at with this. I SO totally understand being overwhelmed. The way I look at is that this is a dance form whose movements have roots before written history- I'll NEVER know everything...but I sure can have a blast learning as much as I can.
I think having dancers from the Middle East influence your style is more about having watched them and understand them enough to enjoy their stylizations...which in turn of course will help you in both your dancing and your teaching. How can we teach "Middle Eastern dance" if we don't know and "Middle Eastern dancers"?

Sarai -

Stick around. There is lots of information here!

As for "which teachers Influenced you" it probably not as difficult as you are making in, as Samira suggests. You might want to ask your teacher her pedigree. I have studied with teachers who go back to Reda troupe, and done who goes back to a famous Turkish dancer whose name I'll remember after I have coffee. those are my main two 'over there' influences. fan girls need not apply.

Well, except about Aida Nour, but that is another story...

{{{hugs}}}

Hi Sarai! I think a lot of belly dancing teachers have historically thought that the only thing you needed to do to be a good teacher was to teach a collection of moves. Many teachers haven't sought to teach the cultural background of the dance, or the different folk forms that influence it, or the legendary dancers whose careers shaped it. Teacher training courses such as JWAAD provide a structure for people who want to teach to acquire those skills and learn how to pass them on. In other words, just because there were limits to what your teachers may have known or passed on to you, doesn't mean that you as a teacher need to confine yourself to the same limits.

I've been doing this dance for 27 years. After 15 years of doing it, I would have been in the same boat as you - the teachers I had over the years never covered any of those topics, and to be honest I'll bet they didn't know.

Look at it this way - you now have some ideas for topics to pursue in continuing your education through workshops, videos, bhuz, etc!

Ah thanks, guys. I was having a tough morning and that all just sort of spilled out. Sorry about that.

You all have a lot of good points. I know I'll never know everything, but it was just really overwhelming to realize how behind I am compared to a lot of other people. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread, all of a sudden I felt fake, like someone just posing as a bellydancer who didn't really own the right to call herself that.

Which, sucks, because its only been in the past few weeks/months that I've really owned that aspect of myself and started to think of myself as a "dancer" and not someone who "goes to dance class."

Originally Posted by _Sarai_

You all have a lot of good points. I know I'll never know everything, but it was just really overwhelming to realize how behind I am compared to a lot of other people.

Please don't be discouraged! Like Shira mentioned, it can take a very long time for someone to realize that there is a more out there than they've been exposed to within their dance circle. The good thing is, once those blinders come off, you can learn a lot very quickly if you seek out the information. With the internet especially, the resources available for learning about the cultural and musical aspects of BD are literally at your fingertips. Hang out here on Bhuz, and you'll be introduced to a whole world you never knew existed. But don't stop there - take the things that grab your interest and look into them even more. Watching several YouTube clips of Saidi can tell you a lot more than just reading about it, for example.

A wonderful dancer and scholar in my area once wrote to me (after a discussion with her that led me to a mind boggling epiphany) "Things 'click' for us, I believe, when they're supposed to, and when the message comes clearly at the point we are ready to hear it." I think that maybe this is your 'click' moment, so embrace it!

Ah... but there is a delight to be enjoyed (heck, a whole continuing series of them) once one has finally become involved enough in the dance to step up to the door, look through it, and realize the vastness of information, material, knowledge, etc. that there is out there just waiting to be absorbed. Almost 30 years so far of this journey for me and still my feelings can be summed up: "but I am just an egg". There is always more. YAY!!!!!

By the way, the first step to being truly competent at something is knowing enough about it to "know what you don't know".

In other words, if you think you know everything worth knowing about something, you're probably still pretty junior in your knowledge.

But when you reach the point of realizing just how much more there is to be learned, you've crossed an important threshhold.

You've reached a stage where you can make conscious decisions about which continuing education to pursue based on what skills you want to learn next rather than just taking a workshop simply because you've heard it might be "fun". You've reached a stage where you can identify gaps in your existing skills, prioritize which ones to close first, and then create a plan for closing them.

The more I know, the more I realize there is that I don't (yet) know. And the journey of learning all these things can be so rewarding!

Well, you're from Pittsburgh ;-)

You're touching on a topic that is very close to my heart: Being an oriental-style dancer in Pittsburgh who desperately looks for an all-around education, performance oppportunities, an active community and inspiration can often be deeply frustrating. To the best of my knowledge, there is nobody who teaches much of what you mention (I don't know with whom you are taking classes, and there are some instructors whose classes I am not very familiar with). I have learned most of what I know about this dance on my own, and I am incredibly proud of that. I continue to learn and find inspiration from a wide variety of sources, including the net, educational materials (DVDs, books), and I am slowly accepting that I have to travel to find the instruction that I am looking for.

Originally Posted by steffib

Well, you're from Pittsburgh ;-)

Hahahaha, so true. I suppose there are others who cannot speak to our unique brand of "OMG FOOTBALL" dance fusion. Not that it has ANYTHING to do with football, but you darn well better pretend it does. And wear some Black and Gold....n'at.

I actually was taking a session of classes with Neefa of Khafif that was probably one of the most rewarding I've had: a overview of the Rom style in different parts of the world and the different excucitions of the dance vocab as the Rom people migrated. It was wonderful. But then she had her baby, so that session is over, obviously.

Originally Posted by _Sarai_

Hahahaha, so true. I suppose there are others who cannot speak to our unique brand of "OMG FOOTBALL" dance fusion. Not that it has ANYTHING to do with football, but you darn well better pretend it does. And wear some Black and Gold....n'at.

I have opened a set to "Here we go!" wearing a Hines Ward jersey, and I have waved a terrible towel during a performance on Myron Cope day.

I'll confess that I've just placed an order with L Rose Designs for a costume set in the colors of the local university as a way to attract interest among college students!

Originally Posted by steffib

I have opened a set to "Here we go!" wearing a Hines Ward jersey, and I have waved a terrible towel during a performance on Myron Cope day.

You might be my hero.

I was trying to figure out how I could cover a bra and belt with a steelers jersey and have the emblem on the cups of the bra without it looking TOO much like bullseyes

Originally Posted by _Sarai_

You might be my hero.

I was trying to figure out how I could cover a bra and belt with a steelers jersey and have the emblem on the cups of the bra without it looking TOO much like bullseyes

The Steelers store last year sold wrap cholis - well, they called them tie tops, but that's a minor detail. Dunno whether they still have those this year, though.

Originally Posted by steffib

The Steelers store last year sold wrap cholis - well, they called them tie tops, but that's a minor detail. Dunno whether they still have those this year, though.

I have to work this into my costuming.

Think of the options! "Sick of crappy superbowl parties? Hate the halftime show? Hire a bellydancer to entertain your guests between plays during the Big Game"

Whoa... that actually might *work* (goes off to start working out details)

Confession time: We actually did this for our student performing group for their costumes for last year. ..g.: Our university's dominant color is maroon, so we ordered them some lovely burgundy dresses (started them with a more conservative look). This year we went with two piece royal blue costumes for them (and Sedonia made burgundy/royal blue veils for them to go with both costumes).

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I'll confess that I've just placed an order with L Rose Designs for a costume set in the colors of the local university as a way to attract interest among college students!

Originally Posted by _Sarai_

I have to work this into my costuming.

Think of the options! "Sick of crappy superbowl parties? Hate the halftime show? Hire a bellydancer to entertain your guests between plays during the Big Game"

Whoa... that actually might *work* (goes off to start working out details)

Just remember - I have called dibs years ago on dancing at a Steelers game during half time! ;-) Can be pre-season, if necessary, but a tailgate party won't do. It's my career goal, after that I will be ready to retire.

I had a similar Bhuz awakening years ago! My teachers didn't teach any of that stuff either. At least in theory you can dance without knowing it all, certainly at a student level.

But it gets boring after a while!! I can remember being ready to quit after my first two or three years, because I just didn't see how putting hip lifts and figure 8s to music one more time could be interesting.

D'oh!

Then I went to a workshop and there were women who'd been dancing for 30 years still learning new things. Through Bhuz I came to realize how MUCH there is to learn -- not only in movement vocabulary (which is much wider and richer than I'd ever imagined) but music, rhythms, 'source' (folk) dances that are part of it all.

I've been one happy camper trying to soak it all up ever since! Now when I listen to music, I'm picking out rhythms, matching up folk steps (like Khaleegy, which comes up quite a bit, or Saidi).

If other people are like me, a lot of bad fusion gets created because we think we've explored all there is to belly dance and we're getting bored with it! Bhuz saved me, and saved my audiences, from whatever insanity I might have come up with to fill the gap.

Having the world open up for you is such a scary yet wonderful experience. At least, it was for me.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

If other people are like me, a lot of bad fusion gets created because we think we've explored all there is to belly dance and we're getting bored with it! Bhuz saved me, and saved my audiences, from whatever insanity I might have come up with to fill the gap.

Amen, sister!!!!! ..l;,

Originally Posted by _Sarai_

Think of the options! "Sick of crappy superbowl parties? Hate the halftime show? Hire a bellydancer to entertain your guests between plays during the Big Game"

Whoa... that actually might *work* (goes off to start working out details)

I thought a Super Bowl gig inquiry to be a bit odd, but I asked Zahra about it and she said it's not uncommon. Go, Team! ;)

At my neighbor's SuperBowl party once, we got my son to put on a bellydancing gorilla suit and run into the room after a touchdown, cheer, sit on the host's lap and do a quick victory lap. Then he ran out again.

I'm not sure to this day if my neighbor knows who it was or why it happened. Sure was fun!

Nobody knows EVERYTHING right away. As a matter of fact... most people know absoulutely nothing in the beginning. Most girls (Ive observed) go quite a long time thinking that they have all the knowledge they'll ever need and then they get smacked in the face somewhere down the road that the rabbit hole goes much deeper than they thought.

I know because thats what happened to me. When I started dancing I just KNEW I was going to be able to come up with elaborate coreographies right away and start dancing and putting videos up on Youtube ( because that's all I thought bellydancers did at the time LOL) And after 4 months of dancing and I still couldn't even string one move after another... I was DEVASTATED. I thought for sure that I was equipped with everything I would need to be a star dancer. Hell, I was acing my classes and I was taking them 2 times a week!

It wasnt until I began taking classes with my current teacher (who is a living legend by the way) that the slap in the face occurred. I realized that I wasn't anywhere near as far along as I thought I was. I learned that simply watching genieshanu on youtube wasn't going to help me become a good dancer, and that there was more involved than just my booty and bedlah. This teacher not only instructs us in dance but also in music theory, history, and sage presence. My first class was the most intimidating and awesome event Ive had yet.

I felt just like you are feeling right now. So completely confused and worthless. Like, I might as well start right back at the beginning because nothing I had learned mattered. What helped me along though was realizing that I had all the time in the world to learn what I needed to learn and the fact that it doesn't happen overnight for ANYBODY.

Eventually your going to have to find yourself a teacher who will insturct you not only in dance, but in history, and in music. You may also have to resign yourself to the fact that you might just have to find it out on your own. If that is the case... Bhuz is an amazing resource. You will find all kinds of answers here to questions you never thought you wanted to ask. Gilded serpent is a good, and most of all Shira.net

Youll find your way. *hugs*

Originally Posted by _Sarai_

I have to work this into my costuming.

Think of the options! "Sick of crappy superbowl parties? Hate the halftime show? Hire a bellydancer to entertain your guests between plays during the Big Game"

Whoa... that actually might *work* (goes off to start working out details)

Stealing this idea. :D

Originally Posted by steffib

I have opened a set to "Here we go!" wearing a Hines Ward jersey, and I have waved a terrible towel during a performance on Myron Cope day.

I've worn blue to honor the Patriots at a football and fairy and Star Wars themed baby shower gig (don't even ask. I danced to a music-box version of the Star Wars theme. Some double veils were as close as I could get to fairies) ,r:;


Along the lines of what some others have said, I think it is exactly when you are bowled over by how much more there is to learn that you become ready to start learning it.

And you can think of it like this: you've only ever had vanilla ice cream, and it's really, really good and you like it a lot. You can even tell the difference between good vanilla ice cream and mediocre vanilla ice cream, so you feel like a bit of an expert on ice cream. Then one day you stumble across an ice cream parlour with hundreds of flavors, and you had no idea! All that ice cream in so many different tastes! And oh the joy of trying them all out and working on truly becoming an ice cream expert! ..g.:..g.:..g.: