Thread: How young is too young....?

My niece is 12 years old and is wanting me to take her into my class. I think its great...but the teaching should be different as well as costuming...does anyone have experience with teaching young girls?

I was 13 when I started (almost 30 years ago). Yes, her costuming could be more modest, but I wouldn't call her young. I teach children's classes as young as 6 (younger if parent attends with child to assist).

Teach normal technique. At her age, she should be able to focus and do what she needs to do in an adult class, and may really welcome the inclusion into a more "adult" setting. I did have an exception once where I recommended to a parent that a 12 year old leave the adult class and attend the children's class, but that was the only time ever. And due to her nonstop talking ("this one time, in band camp....". Seriously.) My published guideline for the adult class is "high school age or can conduct self appropriately".

She may be trying to figure out how her body moves, and it's a little more challenging when it's in the process of changing. She may or may not have sprouted hips and boobs yet, but they change your balance and such.

I find that with my younger "adult" students, I may need to remind them a little more often with routine corrections (watch your posture, etc). I try not to single them out or embarrass them, as they are at that age where they can burst into flames (or a meltdown) if they think they've been publicly humiliated. When I am doing my walk-around, I whisper quietly to remind them with a wink and a grin.

The hardest part of having younger students in the class was when the older women got a bit "adult" with the humor. It was hard for me too, I am the world's oldest living teenager with a Beavis and Butthead sense of humor, and a potty mouth that can only come from living with a Marine.

You are so lucky that your niece is interested. My adult daughter isn't the least bit interested. I hope you are able to work out having her in your class. Good luck to you!

Nashid - I agree w/Halima - 12 is not to young. I have taught a mother and her 3 daughters, ages 13, 11, and 9. I have also taught my own daughter, who is now 17. Costuming, yes, would naturally be more modest. Halima's right about the "meltdown" too as when my daughter was younger she could hardly take correction from me without shutting down altogether. Now, she asks "am I doing this right?" or "how was my hip roll, am I getting better?" Bellydance should be a confidence builder, so starting in the teens to do that, or pre-teens, to me is perfect timing.

Halima, I enjoyed your comments about being a perpetual teenager and having a potty mouth due to living with a Marine. I have to fight, that, too - as I refuse to grow up and I live with a retired Green Beret Special Forces soldier! But it's fun, isn't it!?

Peace all - Eve

Yes, young girls are much different to teach than adult women. I tried it for a bit. It was successful, however those classes had to be on Sat. mornings and it was not working with my hetic schedule. I have to rest sometimes I am finding out. haha.
The approach I took teaching children under twelve was more about a group dynamic, co-ordination and dance movement and rhythm and teaching them to interact as a group. It was also about self esteem building. Young girls today face so many challenges from societal messages that they are bombarded with. Be perfect, look like this magazine cover etc. etc. Unrealistic expectations. If you are about to embark on teaching impressionable young girls you must really strive to remember ....they are little girls. Costuming should be age appropriate and modest. I would also keep their library of movement training limited and or modified until they were a little older.
I was horrified when a guest troupe appeared at one of my shows with a 9 year old dancing out front ( I did not know the child was dancing with them or I would not have allowed it , but it was show time and I could not do a thing about it without causing a major scene) Dressed like the rest of the adults and dancing to a modern English pop song about an adult relationship in the guise of a veil number. I heard many unsolicited negative comments from audience members after the show. They felt very uncomfortable about that child and her performance as they felt she had been sexualized in her role dancing and it was obvious she was no more than 10 years old. So I guess it is up to you how you handle this but just remember, they are little girls. They have all their lives to be women when the time is right. For the group I taught I used the music Prince Ali from the Disney movie Alladin. They loved it, because they could relate to it and again it was age appropriate, I had also cut some canes down for them to incorporate it the choreo. It was cute and that is what it should be for little girls cute, not sexy. I have also raised two daughters who are now adults. I always keep that Mom mindset when I am dealing with child students. Good luck with your niece.

Thank you all so much for your comments. I believe this will be good for her because she has such a hard time with her self esteem...even though she's as cute as a button! She is very interested in it. The class I will be putting her in is with older adult women...most of whom already have children and are past their "partying" stage but still want to keep in tune with their bodies or rediscover the "goddess" within. I think since she is my niece she and I will work on a "special" choreography...thank you for the idea of the music from Alladin...I hadn't thought of that. I would love to teach more young girls and maybe this would be a way to make others aware that it will be offered. Is there any other music anyone could think of that would be age appropriate? I will do some searching as well. You guys are great...by the way...I understand the potty mouth thing too...my husband is a general contractor and my son is in the military...men! (o:

you are welcome and swearing is a form of aggression therapy....hahahah

I forgot to mention I called the class I taught for little girls 6-12 years...Jelly Bellies

I'm sure glad that therapy doesn't cost anything...I'd be broke! Jelly bellies!!!! How cute!!!

If they come with Mom, down to 12, however they are warned that I will slip up with my language and or humor eventually. No unattended young ladies under the age of 16.

We have a loose "no costume bra till 15" policy - girls wear a choli before then - because it just looks too adult on the younger ones. Girls of 12 and up often learn quite fast and don't have the same capacity to concentrate on a movement for a long time that their adult versions have. It's usually not a problem when they are the only one in class but if you get an enclave of wee madams they need specialist attention.

Girls that age often come with their mothers and it's nice because Mum is responsible for her daughter. You do find that you have to be a bit more careful about topics, and so do the rest of the class. It tends to be quite self-policing. One of my students made a flip comment about thinking about sex when you're performing (to get an alluring face) and half the others, plus me, were all "koff, hack, young ears!!" regarding our 15 year old.

ETA: Another thing to look out for is class participants talking about stuff that is not inappropriate but not necessarily what kids need to hear gory details about - the horrors of childbirth, how awful menopause is, and how much their teenagers get up their noses. It's not that they shouldn't talk about those things, but it's easy to forget there is a very young woman right there who is one of said teenagers, doesn't really need to know all the awful details of childbearing right now and is going to be deeply embarrassed at menopause talk. They should still talk by all means but maybe try to widen the context, so the young person doesn't get the sense that growing up is just going to be horror after horror! It's a chance for them to get to feel more normal about maturing and ageing instead of fearing it.

I think this is great. She is at the age where hips and other curves are starting. In today's society young girls are almost taught that these curves=fat and for some eating disorders can develop. I like the idea of a young girl in at atmosphere where it is a bonus to have curves.

My niece (born in Turkey) was an amazing dancer at 9. Certainly, many gypsy dancers make sure that their daughters start by 4. Unfortunately for most of us, I think that just like playing an instrument or doing ballet, to really master this art you need to start training your body long before puberty.

I take High School students on the understanding it is an adult class and they are expected to act as adults. I do tone down my stories a little - as do the students - but the dancing is the same.

I'll stretch down to 11 or so if they come with their care giver - but same rules (unless, as has happened, Mum arranges a special class for her, her kids and some of their friends).

I started when I was about 11 or 12 in a class where all the ladies were in their 30's-40's and there weren't any problems. I guess it depends on the girl though, some are a lot more well behaved and attentive than others (that goes for all ages).

i started at age four in turkey . . My aunt enrolled me in turkish folklore classes after she saw how excited i got when i saw a belly dancer love and got up go dance with her lol

my daughter is about to end her first year, she's on the cusp of turning 13 (!). She felt odd at first about being the only kid in a class with adults, but the kids class she took was really little girls (and one very happy developmentally disabled adult- how awesome is that woman's mom!) so she is pretty happy with her classes, and no longer minds all of the boring grown ups. She is eager to perform in the student show, so from that I gather that she feels really comfortable.

It is helpful that her teacher has a very sweet vibe, and doesn't talk down to her. That was her biggest complaint about the kids class... the teacher talked to them like they were all stupid.

My daughter is going to be 12 in January and she has been bellydancing with me since she was I think 6. She loves it. I don't think it's sexualizing her. Her costuming is usually a choli top with a coin scarf and harems or a skirt. I wouldn't put her in a skirt with no slits. She rocks the heck out of a pair of wings. She can spin and spin. I teach her no different than my adult students. We drill and dance and she does choreo. If we are advertising our performances as "family friendly" then why can't a younger girl learn? As long as their attention span can handle it I say why not.

I have a question for you, Mahira. I have a private student who just turned 9 years old. She has been studying with me weekly for about a year now. In ways, she seems much older than she is -- she is quite tall for her age, and appears to be going through puberty. She is also very intelligent, articulate, and creative. My problem in teaching her is that she is a "dreamy" child, always telling me about a costume that she is creating in her mind, showing me an interesting new way to wrap herself in a veil (she is in love with the veil), singing a song that she created with imaginary words. She is astonishingly bright and artistic! But, it's hard to get her to focus on boring things like isolations and combinations.

She told me that she doesn't remember things that are written down or planned out (choreography), and does much better when she just feels the music and does what it tells her to do (improv). Amazing, yes?

I have an upcoming student showcase in which she and I have planned for her to do a veil solo. She has pretty much experience in performing solo (ballet, school plays and music recitals). I would like her to have a basic framework around her improvisation, because, like myself, without one she gets self conscious and starts repeating moves, over and over.

She would probably prefer to have our hour lesson only consist of her talking about her latest creative endeavor, running around the studio with a veil, and trying to sneak candy (which I recently put away to cut down on the distraction). But I'm getting signals from mom that she'd like to see more progress in the area of technique.

Any suggestions? ..c::

Thanks,

Shaia

Bribery.

Tell her that you'll be focusing on technique for 5 minutes, then she can have 5 minutes to improvise. Then repeat. Use a timer. If she wastes the technique time, then tell her you'll have to start the timer over again for a fresh 5 minutes until she can follow directions with you for 5 whole minutes. After 2 repetitions (20 minutes) give her a 5 minute break where she can talk about her costume ideas or whatever she wants, and have a piece of candy. Then she has to get back to 5 minutes focus/5 minutes dance improv for another 20 minutes. Between warmup, cooldown, and the occasional do-over, that should consume an hour.

She sounds like a smart girl, so you shouldn't have to reset the timer more than a few times until she gets that she won't get away with nothing but noodling.

It sounds weird, but you kind of make the timer be the "heavy". I learned the timer trick while homeschooling my 4 kids (one of whom has ADHD/ODD) and doing home day care at the same time.

I use it when teaching my kids dance classes to help everyone keep focused. If they start to wander, I remind them "we still have 3 more minutes to do this so we don't have to start the timer over".

Think about games you can use to teach technique, like Simon Says, Bellydance Freeze Tag, Mirror Image, etc. This can make technique instruction a little less "dry". Let her think up really silly names for combinations. My kids came up with the Pizza Combination (long story). Kids require a lot more repetition than adults do to retain things. I find that doing lots of review and only introducing one new thing per class works better for kids that young.

Hope this helps.

It does! Wonderful ideas...I can't wait to try them out. Thank you so much!

We have a policy of 8 being the youngest age accept. The attention span just doesn't seem to be there there in younger children. Currently our youngest student is 9, and our student troupe includes a mother/daughter (the daughter is 13).

Originally Posted by susuabdo

If you are about to embark on teaching impressionable young girls you must really strive to remember ....they are little girls. Costuming should be age appropriate and modest. I would also keep their library of movement training limited and or modified until they were a little older.
I was horrified when a guest troupe appeared at one of my shows with a 9 year old dancing out front ( I did not know the child was dancing with them or I would not have allowed it , but it was show time and I could not do a thing about it without causing a major scene) Dressed like the rest of the adults and dancing to a modern English pop song about an adult relationship in the guise of a veil number. I heard many unsolicited negative comments from audience members after the show. They felt very uncomfortable about that child and her performance as they felt she had been sexualized in her role dancing and it was obvious she was no more than 10 years old. So I guess it is up to you how you handle this but just remember, they are little girls. They have all their lives to be women when the time is right.

My daughter was 9 when she first appeared onstage performing BD. She was very modestly costumed - a tank-style top (wide straps) that ended just above her belly button, a skirt that began just below (or right about at) her belly button, no slits. She wore a sash and arm bands. She wore a similarly-styled costume until she as 14, when I put her in her first bedlah (very modest cut, no legs, something on the arms, usually gloves). What is it with having something on the arms? For me, it just looks more "dressed."

She had picked up alot of movement on her own from watching me and studying videos. There were movements she was perfectly able to do, but which I believe are too "adult" to be done by children. Can I come up an example at this moment? Not really. Hmmm . . . maybe one. When she first started to do floorwork, I'd allow a (modified) Turkish Drop, but she didn't hang around on her back, except to do a bit of arm work. Other movements? I don't think it was the movement itself as much as it was a choice in the presentation of the movement.

I always got many unsolicited positive responses to her presentation of the dance and in her costuming. I can even recall a couple of competition judges remarking directly to me how much they appreciated the costuming choices we made. No scary pseudo-adult woman thang going on!

Kids can do this dance, but performance is very different from bopping around the living room with friends. I think we owe it to the kids to allow them to be kids as long as they can.

Deborah

I think it's great when kids get involved in anything that isn't video games or watching hours of TV. I've only done one show with someone under the age of 14 in it. She was appropriately costumed (choli and harem pants with a petal skirt as I recall), didn't do floor work and didn't do anything that seemed to be playing "adult." Her mom was there for the performance and when she went for tips, she brought a brass urn-type vase which we all placed tips in. I'd guess she was about 9 or 10.

I think the only place for caution and maybe diligence is girls in that 11-14 year age range often try to be a little too grown up. God knows I did. I wanted desperately to be anything but a child and starting about 12, I looked a lot less like a child. At that point I think it becomes up to the parent and dance teacher to make sure that the costuming, music and routines are appropriate. Lord knows that the belly dancing community is probably the best place for a young woman to get images of feminine beauty. It's not all about being a size two with DDs. I was 27 when I started dancing and was finally able to accept some things about myself that were never really problems in the first place. If I'd been in that community when I was 12? I'd probably rule the world by now ;).

Originally Posted by Halima-Dances

Bribery.

Tell her that you'll be focusing on technique for 5 minutes, then she can have 5 minutes to improvise. Then repeat. Use a timer. If she wastes the technique time, then tell her you'll have to start the timer over again for a fresh 5 minutes until she can follow directions with you for 5 whole minutes. After 2 repetitions (20 minutes) give her a 5 minute break where she can talk about her costume ideas or whatever she wants, and have a piece of candy. Then she has to get back to 5 minutes focus/5 minutes dance improv for another 20 minutes. Between warmup, cooldown, and the occasional do-over, that should consume an hour.

She sounds like a smart girl, so you shouldn't have to reset the timer more than a few times until she gets that she won't get away with nothing but noodling.

It sounds weird, but you kind of make the timer be the "heavy". I learned the timer trick while homeschooling my 4 kids (one of whom has ADHD/ODD) and doing home day care at the same time.

I use it when teaching my kids dance classes to help everyone keep focused. If they start to wander, I remind them "we still have 3 more minutes to do this so we don't have to start the timer over".

Think about games you can use to teach technique, like Simon Says, Bellydance Freeze Tag, Mirror Image, etc. This can make technique instruction a little less "dry". Let her think up really silly names for combinations. My kids came up with the Pizza Combination (long story). Kids require a lot more repetition than adults do to retain things. I find that doing lots of review and only introducing one new thing per class works better for kids that young.

Hope this helps.

Sorry Shaia, I didn't see your post. Yes, I totally agree with this answer. Good luck.

Originally Posted by casbahdance

I always got many unsolicited positive responses to her presentation of the dance and in her costuming. I can even recall a couple of competition judges remarking directly to me how much they appreciated the costuming choices we made. No scary pseudo-adult woman thang going on!

Kids can do this dance, but performance is very different from bopping around the living room with friends. I think we owe it to the kids to allow them to be kids as long as they can.

Deborah

That is wonderful! You did the appropriate thing. By modestly dressing her and limiting her movement. I agree it is wonderful to see a young girl dance, if done correctly.
The 9 year old that danced at my show was wearing a skirt that was so low on her hips I thought it would fall off and she was making her sexy pouty video vixen faces while she was dancing. I believe she was trying to attempt an ummi as well, but looked more like grinding. They had her finish the number with the splits! But she must have bounced against the floor at least 3 time while down there. AGGGGGGh anyway...glad to hear someone cares about the little girls and what they look like when they dance. I am sure you take great pride in your daughter's dance accomplishments. She will be an awesome dancer as she grows, due to your great influence. Keep up the great work Deborah.

Originally Posted by susuabdo

The 9 year old that danced at my show was wearing a skirt that was so low on her hips I thought it would fall off and she was making her sexy pouty video vixen faces while she was dancing. I believe she was trying to attempt an ummi as well, but looked more like grinding. They had her finish the number with the splits! But she must have bounced against the floor at least 3 time while down there. AGGGGGGh

Yes! Ummi! That's the one! She could definitely do one, but there was no ummi-ing until she was about 16! Even at 16, it was more of a transition movement. ACK!

It's all in the context, isn't it?

Deborah

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing an ummi at any age. The issue is presentation and intent. If I do an ummi with my mouth hanging open while touching myself, that's my problem, because I'm an adult and I know perfectly well what I'm signalling (which is why I wouldn't do it) but children and young women, even if they do "know" what that signifies, don't have the maturity to deal with the ramifications. It's up to us as adults to ensure they know what's appropriate and what is not. Much the same as it's up to us as adults to say "you know what, that young man/woman is totally hot with their new adult body and seductive looks, but I am going to ignore that fact because I know better than they do and I'll let them do their sexual experimentation with people their own age."

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I don't think there's anything wrong with doing an ummi at any age. The issue is presentation and intent.

Your point is respectfully taken. I just prefer not to go there at all with children.

Call me a fuddy-duddy. It fits.

Deborah

Fuddy-duddy. Just kidding. I totally agree with you.

Originally Posted by Linnyg

Fuddy-duddy.

..l;,

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

..l;,

Deborah

I like to think that I am 32 going on 80.