Thread: Negative student

Last night in my early class one of my students stopped me in the middle of us doing a combo on the right then left sides and she says out loud with hands on hips, Do we have to do this? I stopped. I was kind of thrown off by this. I responded with a big smile and said, Yes, this is part of learning and dancing. If you don't want to, you can step aside, but we will continue. I wasn't rude and I spoke in a very friendly manner.
It really bothered me. I don't want someone with a negative attitude ruining it for the rest of the class. As we continued I could tell the rest of the class was annoyed by her comment and I just pushed forward and a few minutes later we were all having a good time again and that student joined in again.

Has this happened to you?

That hasn't happened to me, but if it did, I'd be inclined to do one or both of:

- explain why we're doing it (i.e., what they want them to get out of it) and then allow them to sit out if they want to, like you did.

- ask them why they *don't* want to do it. That could be a sign that something doesn't feel right to the student, or that they aren't getting what they want out of the class, but that they can't/won't phrase as a more specific request. If that's the case, I'd want to know. I wouldn't necessarily change my lesson plan for the entire group, but I would definitely want to take it into account.

Wow, how rude. Sounds like she has a total lack of consideration for both you and her classmates, among other things.

I haven't seen anyone do anything exactly like that, but years ago I was taking tap dance, and there were two sisters in the class who thought they knew everything. Every time the teacher would get ready to start the class with warmup drills, they would start saying "We don't want to do this. Can't we skip this?" etc. disregarding the fact that the rest of the class did want to do it and the teacher did not want to proceed without warming up with basics. She had her hands full with these two every week.

It sounds like you handled the situation well -- not forcing her to do it if she doesn't want to, but continuing with your combo according to plan and not sabotaging the other students' learning on her behalf. I really wonder what her problem is -- why is she in the class if she doesn't want to do the moves?

it's good you nipped it in the butt asap! "do we have to do this?" - it's her CHOICE to come to class...if she doesn't want to participate she can CHOOSE to stay home : ) I hate taking classes/workshops with people like that because they suck time and energy from the teacher that should be directed to the class attendants equally. She could also choose to take a private where she could focus on her wants/needs in the bellydance field.

Really I have to admit my first reaction to this was to laugh (not that it's funny at all if you're the teacher). But IMAGINE taking a BELLY DANCING class and saying "Do I HAVE to do this?"

I sure hope she never joins the Marines.

I never understood that. I would hear fellow classmates say, "I don't wanna go to class today". Then don't go!

I think some people get pleasure in being miserable...LOL

I have a student who yawns and just looks absolutely miserable for the entire class - literally every 10 seconds she is yawning. And when I'm not looking at her directly, I can see out of the corner of my eye that she is not doing the moves, just standing there.

I just remind myself that it must just be the way she is - just one of those people who thinks she is "too cool" to be outwardly show she is having fun - or else she wouldn't keep coming back week after week!

Originally Posted by jmdruadh

- ask them why they *don't* want to do it. That could be a sign that something doesn't feel right to the student, or that they aren't getting what they want out of the class, but that they can't/won't phrase as a more specific request. If that's the case, I'd want to know. I wouldn't necessarily change my lesson plan for the entire group, but I would definitely want to take it into account.

It is possible that it was physically uncomfortable for this person and she just wasn't able to verbalize it well. Years ago when I started dance I moaned and sighed alot during stretching. I finally explained to my teacher that my body just doesn't stretch and I find it painful when attempting stretching. So it was agreed that I could opt out of that part of the class. I've been told that if I worked on stretching that eventually my body would loosen up but just recently I have been taking private pilates classes and this person confirmed that some people just are not able to stretch well.

Another thought I had was that she may have very low self esteem - it often shows up as a negative attitude.

She is a new student. On her first day before class she came up to me, introduced herself and immediately started bashing the Zumba class she just took, which she said she only went to one class. She didn't come to class last week and I thought maybe she just didn't think this was for her, but then she was there last night. I asked her when were alone what she wanted out of this class and she said she's there to just move and get off her couch and that her doctor recommended it to her. So it's obvious that if she does keep coming to class she's going to continue to be this way since she's not there to learn to bellydance. Sigh.

Originally Posted by Surida

It is possible that it was physically uncomfortable for this person and she just wasn't able to verbalize it well. Years ago when I started dance I moaned and sighed alot during stretching. I finally explained to my teacher that my body just doesn't stretch and I find it painful when attempting stretching. So it was agreed that I could opt out of that part of the class. I've been told that if I worked on stretching that eventually my body would loosen up but just recently I have been taking private pilates classes and this person confirmed that some people just are not able to stretch well.

Another thought I had was that she may have very low self esteem - it often shows up as a negative attitude.

excellent perspective and insight

Mahira, what you said sounds absolutely perfect - not defensive, not rude, gently putting her in place but not in a mean way.

As the others have said, it is possible that she's experiencing pain or similar and doesn't know how to articulate it. Ideally you could nab her after class and ask privately, but she might be a "quick to leave" student and those ones are always hard to pin down.

A friend of mine was in a workshop with Dina and said that when Dina spotted someone griping, she stopped everything and said "What is wrong? Are you not happy? I don't want people unhappy in my class!" and went to her, shifted her position, said "you have it now? Good!" and went back to teaching.

Originally Posted by mahira-michelle

On her first day before class she came up to me, introduced herself and immediately started bashing the Zumba class she just took, which she said she only went to one class. Sigh.

If that wasn't a dead give-away, I don't know what is! Oy!

Deborah

oh man that makes me mad too. never have i gotten so frustrated with any dance i do to just outwardly sigh real loud as to show my frustration or look pouty or even curse..believe me, i've heard it from fellow classmates. there's one girl that gets frustrated waayyy too quickly and will express her anger outloud..very annoying. and another woman who actually said i hate this sh*t...it's like, if u don't like this, then y are you here?!

but i don't personally remember ever getting frustrated..i'm there for fun and it's my hobby, so enjoy it! you'll get it soon enough!

Originally Posted by mahira-michelle

She is a new student. On her first day before class she came up to me, introduced herself and immediately started bashing the Zumba class she just took, which she said she only went to one class. She didn't come to class last week and I thought maybe she just didn't think this was for her, but then she was there last night. I asked her when were alone what she wanted out of this class and she said she's there to just move and get off her couch and that her doctor recommended it to her. So it's obvious that if she does keep coming to class she's going to continue to be this way since she's not there to learn to bellydance. Sigh.

Maybe the magic of this dance will win her over and the warm camaraderie will boost her spirits. Well. . ... . maybe.

OR

she will move on. She must be terribly depressed or I suppose it's possible she is just a pain in the butt!

GOOD LUCK!

I've heard students complain before, but I've never had one with the gall to bring the entire class to a standstill over it! Sheesh! You did a great job thinking on your feet, and the words you used were perfect.

I would bet that if you just run your class as always, she will either give in and participate or give up and you'll never see her again. She may be looking for you or the other students to fawn all over her, and when that doesn't happen, she'll hopefully quit seeking that kind of attention.

If not, remember what Michelle Joyce said at the teacher's workshop - it's totally okay to tell someone that your class is not a good fit for them.

If this were my class I would speak with this student after class. It is of course encouraged for students to ask questions, and I would explain that this is something you are there to help with.....This was not only rude, but incredibly disrespectful to both you and the class.

You know, I've done that: whined that something was "too hard."

Difference between my whining and the OP situation? I was in a roomful of advanced/pro dancers who all knew each other well, we were doing something hard, we were all struggling, and the whining came out as a bit of comedic relief. Everybody laughed, commiserated for a few seconds, then went back to work with renewed vigor.

But to come out and say "do we have to do this?" in the middle of a beginner class -- and really mean it -- it's just unfathomable.

Good responses and insights, everybody!

Deborah

I have been known to sigh in class. Usually when I hear the shimmy torture music start. I do however do it, the whole time. The sigh also comes with a little smile. It isn't what I call the princess sigh as if "you want ME to do that, that is for the lesser ones."

You handled it well. Don't worry, I would guess that she won't stick around long anyway.

I dont yawn in my own class, but I used to do it in my teachers..and I see some students do it in mine. It is usually during the warm up. I think it is a body response to tension release and the need for extra oxygen. Pay it no mind

Originally Posted by mahira-michelle

She is a new student. On her first day before class she came up to me, introduced herself and immediately started bashing the Zumba class she just took, which she said she only went to one class. She didn't come to class last week and I thought maybe she just didn't think this was for her, but then she was there last night. I asked her when were alone what she wanted out of this class and she said she's there to just move and get off her couch and that her doctor recommended it to her. So it's obvious that if she does keep coming to class she's going to continue to be this way since she's not there to learn to bellydance. Sigh.

Sounds like she just wants to tell her doctor "I've tried everything!"..cr.:
I can't help but wonder, if she's pushing for some sort of surgery, and needs his o.k. on it.

To me a half-@ssed attempt isn't trying at all.

I think you handled it right.
If problems continue, I think I'd ask her what she expected out of the class.

Originally Posted by anala

I dont yawn in my own class, but I used to do it in my teachers..and I see some students do it in mine. It is usually during the warm up. I think it is a body response to tension release and the need for extra oxygen. Pay it no mind

Add it's also because they ARE interested, and not bored. Definitely need more 02.

Ditto:
"Pay it no mind."

last night one of my students decided the class was too strenuous for her and decided to have a chat with a fellow student (who was very embarrased about it) instead of doing the next thing. This is a community dance class so i don't work my students too hard because it is a beginners "For fun" class. People do think bellydance is easy and that you can do it without trying-these are the same people who run to open windows when you do the slightest thing that makes them break out in a sweat.(we don't tend to have air con over here)
Some people are just difficult people and just because they are in a dance class does not make them less difficult.Try not to worry about it.

I used to have a bellydance classmate a few years ago who apparently had attention deficit and would get so bored that she would often become disruptive. She'd say things like...."Oh ENOUGH technique already! I'm tired of so much technique! Let's dance now!" Or another favorite one when we were drilling a particular move, "That music is SO boring! Can't you change that song?" Or, I don't want to get stressed out learning difficult technique, I come to class to De-stress after a hard day at work!"
Unfortunately my teacher never had enough backbone to tell her to shut up. (as I would probably have done) and so she'd just whine about her difficult students after class.
At a recent Bozenka workshop here, one of the attendees actually sat down on the floor in the middle of the workshop. Bozenka stopped what she was doing, looked at her and said "No. Get up. You can't sit down in the middle of the classroom floor, it's dangerous and someone could trip over you and fall. If you are tired you can step over to the side and rest, but don't sit on the floor in the middle of the class."

Regards
Priscilla

Originally Posted by Surida

Maybe the magic of this dance will win her over and the warm camaraderie will boost her spirits. Well. . ... . maybe.

OR

she will move on. She must be terribly depressed or I suppose it's possible she is just a pain in the butt!

GOOD LUCK!

Oh she's the latter trust me.
Tell her quietly and firmly that you suspect this dance is not for her.
It requires discpiline and dedication and suggest she try bungee jumping (without the big elastic band)..g.:

I think you handled this very well indeed Mahira. Such an awkward moment to think on your feet.

I don't teach but very sadly I have, on occasion, experienced this from fellow students in class and I know of a number of teachers in and around the local dance community who have had to deal with this sort of thing in class.

I think the bottom line is that whatever the reason for this behaviour (experience and your testimony incline me to believe that she's trouble, but I could be way-out) it has a very disruptive impact on both you and your other students. These situations and comments just deflate everyone!

In the majority of these situations, its probably worth trying to discover if there is a specific problem with understanding/confidence/pain but, ultimately, the non-participators and the nay-sayers cannot be allowed to make the entire class revolve around them.

Sometimes people are just like this - I've met other students over the years who have physical problems and therefore think that because they have a genuine problem with hips/knees etc, that no-one else should ever be allowed to learn or try the moves that they struggle with.

I've also encountered students who don't want to try or have a go at all and therefore have a huge hissy-fit if anyone else even makes a slight attempt: 'Well, I'm not trying it... you four are only having a go to show me up...its so unfair'.

Equally I've met people who have struggled for whatever reason and who sometimes need to take a break, sit something out, or to ask for greater clarification, but who attend to their own needs in a positive way without exhibiting disruptive behavior.

Its all down to attitude.

The problem with these people is that their negativity can be catching and then what becomes of the promising or keen students who are infected.
She is probably one of those who love to winge about their lives and they'd still be there muttering at the back or complaining loudly and others will have decided the class is no longer fun with her "griefing on". You, you risk losing good sudents because of a bad'un.
If you are inclined to be kind, ask her to have a word with yoiu after class where you can discuss her needs and the nature of your class.
Otherwise give her the push.

I think the real problem here is probably that the student is insecure about herself and may fear she can't do the movement correctly. Perhaps she is worried about what the others will think, so she is uncomfortable doing that move, thinking she won't look "good" or get it right away. The give away is her attitude toward her other class. Maybe she didn't excel at it right away, and therefore blames the class rather than realizing that it takes work to learn something new. Insecurities can manifest themselves so many ways.

Originally Posted by jessedan

At a recent Bozenka workshop here, one of the attendees actually sat down on the floor in the middle of the workshop. Bozenka stopped what she was doing, looked at her and said "No. Get up. You can't sit down in the middle of the classroom floor, it's dangerous and someone could trip over you and fall. If you are tired you can step over to the side and rest, but don't sit on the floor in the middle of the class."

Three cheers for Bozenka then, and for Dina in the earlier example. I am a high school teacher and I know that classroom control is difficult and uncomfortable at times, but that's a teacher's job. Students pay you to teach them and how can you teach them anything in an unsuitable learning environment? It is your responsibility to foster that environment to the absolute limit of your power to do so. So if a student is disrupting the environment, you must handle it

I know that I have stopped taking classes with teachers because they their students made it difficult to learn, and that is a loss for the teacher.

I think the OP handled this situation very well and I hope that other teachers would do the same. If you can not discipline and enforce the rules, then you need to rethink your role as teacher.

I think all beginner classes should address issues of behavior, etiquette, dance space, etc. I know belly dance was my first ever dance class at age 21, so I am so grateful to my teacher who explained simple things like dance space and staggering bodies to allow everyone to see themselves in the mirror. She also discussed how to behave in a workshop with us. I'd like to think I would behave courteously, but you can't assume people know those standards in a given field.

.p::

/rant

Sorry, this stuff drives me nuts though!

I know belly dance was my first ever dance class at age 21, so I am so grateful to my teacher who explained simple things like dance space and staggering bodies to allow everyone to see themselves in the mirror. She also discussed how to behave in a workshop with us. I'd like to think I would behave courteously, but you can't assume people know those standards in a given field

Excellent point. I know that the majority of belly dance students are adults but I think it is naive to assume that this automatically means that every single adult dance student has appropriate frames of reference in terms of behavior.

Originally Posted by khadiya

Excellent point. I know that the majority of belly dance students are adults but I think it is naive to assume that this automatically means that every single adult dance student has appropriate frames of reference in terms of behavior.

Thanks, which why I esp like the OP's response:

Originally Posted by mahira-michelle

I responded with a big smile and said, Yes, this is part of learning and dancing. If you don't want to, you can step aside, but we will continue.

Here's the answer to your question; here's why this is the answer to the question; here is your option - one that gets you out of the way of everyone else.

But all done diplomatically so that no one feels uncomfortable.