Thread: How would YOU like it . . .

. . . if someone told you after over 10 years of dance lessons that you're "not experienced enough" ???

This situation is not about me, nor about any one person in particular; it's more about a general feeling I've gotten from some long-time students I've come across in my travels. The subject is not entirely new, as some of this has come up within discussions before, but this might be the first thread specifically devoted to the subject. So here goes.


The Situation:

Sally Student has been taking BD lessons with various teachers over, let's say, a 10-year period. Sally is currently in an intermediate class.

Sally's teacher holds a student showcase at a well-known ME restaurant and Sally, was not invited to perform. Sally is pretty unhappy with the situation. When Sally asks why she isn't included in the line-up, Teacher says she is using her most "experienced" dancers. Given the fact that she has 10 years of BD lessons under her belt (sorry!), Teacher's explanation doesn't quite wash for Sally.


The Analysis:
(Note: the analysis is from my point of view; your mileage may vary)

As a teacher and professional dancer myself, I have very solid requirements for public dancing by students. Every student can enjoy the dance in a social setting and, I believe, every student who desires it should be allowed to perform in a group piece at a recital, if he/she knows the choreo. Next up is hafla dancing. Then BD festivals, which include mostly BD folks, but might have a fair number of GP in the audience, too. Then it's off to the truly public domains such as fairs, restaurants -- anywhere that the GP is one's main audience or the GP is likely to view the show easily. Anywhere along this path, a person might decide to pursue solo training -- which is great as BD is really a solo sport anyway.

All these steps assume that the student is continuing to improve his/her technical skills and displays improving presentation, etc. I can only assume that, given Our Situation, Teacher did not include Sally because Sally might not be the best representation in a public setting; Teacher could have any number of reasons -- all of them, I hope, directly related to dance skill.


The Questions:

Have you been the "experienced" student not invited to perform in a student showcase in a public setting? (not talking pro/semi-pro gig)
Did your teacher's reasoning make sense to you?
How direct was your teacher in responding to you? Was he/she forthcoming or did he/she kinda skirt the issue?
Looking back at it now, what are your thoughts on that situation? Do you agree with your teacher's assessments then? How about now?
Other thoughts?

Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences!

Deborah

I think the rub is that "experience" doesn't equal "talent" or "skill."

I agree with your thoughts about how a student should progress--and at some point, even after 10 years, 20 years, etc., a student may not have the skills for certain types of performances.

The challenge is being tactful yet direct about this--because if you say that a particular performance is for more "experienced" dancers, then you get into trouble because of situations like the one you described. Instead, you may have something called "advanced" dancers and then spell out the specific skills the advanced dancers should have (improv ability, solo ability, etc.--I am not so great about quantifying that!).

Sent you a pm

ooooooo, Debra, this topic should get interesting!
I have been on the teacher side of this one.
I agree that just because a student takes classes for 10 years doesnt mean they are ready to be a professional.
I have had a few people quit that took lessons off and on for 5 years or so because I didnt book them in anything but student haflas. They also became upset when a few students that had been dancing a shorter amount of time excelled past them and DID get the gigs.
They (the ones that quit) seemed to think that they were entitled to be a professional just by the sheer amount of time they were involved in BD. If that were true in other situations, I should have my M.D. Phd and alot more degrees tacked on behind my name by now.

Originally Posted by patrisha

ooooooo, Debra, this topic should get interesting!
I have been on the teacher side of this one.
I agree that just because a student takes classes for 10 years doesnt mean they are ready to be a professional.
I have had a few people quit that took lessons off and on for 5 years or so because I didnt book them in anything but student haflas. They also became upset when a few students that had been dancing a shorter amount of time excelled past them and DID get the gigs.
They (the ones that quit) seemed to think that they were entitled to be a professional just by the sheer amount of time they were involved in BD. If that were true in other situations, I should have my M.D. Phd and alot more degrees tacked on behind my name by now.

But what about the student showcase (the original post was about that). My assumption is that student showcases are for students. Does that mean that after 10 years she is not even considered a student?

It could be that the teacher is tactfully using "experienced" to mean "good". It could also be that the teacher is using "experienced" to mean "experienced in the movement vocabulary and performance expectations that *I* have", which is not the same as "experienced in belly dance." I've been BDing for a decade but if I moved to California and decided to take Suhaila Salimpour's class, I know I would need to start in her level 1 and would expect to dance at a low level for what might be quite a long time, because the expectations are different.

The other thing is, does Sally Student's teacher definitely *know* that Sally has studied for ten years? Has Sally been turning up to class on a regular basis and does she know the piece that the students are being asked to perform well enough to perform it? If Sally Student hasn't been coming to class and working with the rest, then it's not fair to let her perform in a class choreography that she may not know as well, or have invested as much time in, as the rest of the class.

Originally Posted by Souzan

But what about the student showcase (the original post was about that). My assumption is that student showcases are for students. Does that mean that after 10 years she is not even considered a student?

When I organize a student showcase the audience consists of the student's family/friends, dance students of the participating teachers and people in our local dance community....not the GP and certainly not the GP at "a well-known ME restaurant"! That's a horse of another color!

~~Kimahri

If a teacher offers opportunities for student recitals, then student performances should be an attainable option for all interested students who have reached a certain level of her/his classes. And if a teacher has clarifications or guidelines within that broad, and to me obvious, definition, it is her prerogative. In fact I would assume there *would* be guidelines as to who can dance, and when. I would expect them to be laid out clearly, and not applied individually but collectively.

So, for example, for my student shows, I provide an opportunity to dance in recitals to anyone in my intermediate or advanced classes who will have studied with me for three months at the time of the show, and who commits to regular attendance in that time period.

One caveat: I do not hold my shows in a Middle Eastern restaurant where professional dancers work at other times. Although I "grew up" as a dancer performing at student shows in pro venues, when I started teaching I decided to go a different route.

Yes to the question that students were of course included and encouraged to dance.in student haflas. I did the not open to the general public shows with students except for an annual fund rasier for a local theater group and then the students were always annouced as students who were volunteering their time to benefit the theater.

I'm not sure I completely understand the question, but I'll throw out my initial reactions.

Sounds to me like the teacher is creating two sets of problems here: an inappropriate showcase, and vague feedback for her student.

1) Having a 'student showcase' in a restaurant that's open to the public just doesn't work in any level in my opinion. If these dancers are good enough to be seen by the general public in a restaurant, then why aren't they being paid? And if they're not good enough, then why are they out there? Sounds to me like Teacher needs to find a more private setting for her showcase.

2) Not experienced enough after 10 years? WTF does that mean? Does it mean that this student has only performed in group dances and needs to cut her soloist teeth a bit more at hafla level? If so, then say that! Sounds more likely to mean that the teacher is requiring dancers at this event have a certain skill level that this student hasn't attained -- if so, then she needs to say it, AND she needs to give the student more feedback on exactly what the student needs to work on in order to make the grade for next time. Even if it's not her student, if you set up a student performance venue with a skillset requirement, you've put yourself in the position of having to turn people away and an explanation seems to be in order.

I think the bigger problem, though, is the idea of having a student performance in front of the GP in a restaurant. Students can just as easily get restaurant style performance experience by holding events in a restaurant setting that's closed to the public -- banquet room, or hafla set up cabaret style, even in the studio set up with tables and chairs and populated with family/friends/fellow students.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'm not sure I completely understand the question, but I'll throw out my initial reactions.

Sounds to me like the teacher is creating two sets of problems here: an inappropriate showcase, and vague feedback for her student.

Sounds more likely to mean that the teacher is requiring dancers at this event have a certain skill level that this student hasn't attained -- if so, then she needs to say it, AND she needs to give the student more feedback on exactly what the student needs to work on in order to make the grade for next time. Even if it's not her student, if you set up a student performance venue with a skillset requirement, you've put yourself in the position of having to turn people away and an explanation seems to be in order.

I think the bigger problem, though, is the idea of having a student performance in front of the GP in a restaurant. Students can just as easily get restaurant style performance experience by holding events in a restaurant setting that's closed to the public -- banquet room, or hafla set up cabaret style, even in the studio set up with tables and chairs and populated with family/friends/fellow students.

"Sounds more likely to mean that the teacher is requiring dancers at this event have a certain skill level that this student hasn't attained -- if so, then she needs to say it, AND she needs to give the student more feedback on exactly what the student needs to work on in order to make the grade for next time."

I think this is the heart of the problem when folks have talked to me. The student (and remember, this student is sorta like a composite born of many conversations), because she's been around for so many years, believes that by virtue of time she has the necessary skills.

I know for a fact that time, although helpful, is not necessarily a good gauge. I've been BDing a lot longer than Aziza -- probably more than double the amount of time -- but she can dance quadruple circles around me and always will be able to do so.

This really is a tough issue.

Deborah

Originally Posted by zumarrad

It could be that the teacher is tactfully using "experienced" to mean "good".

Yes, that is how I read it when I have these conversations with annoyed students of other teachers.

Deborah

10 years? Intermediate?

I'm curious, did she take lessons from this particular teacher in the past, along with the other belly dance teachers during the same time (Monday with one, Wednesday with another, etc.)?

Or was this teacher totally new too her, and she started at level one, as Zumarrad mentioned she'd do with a new teacher (me too).

How many classes has she taken with this particular teacher?

If it were only a couple, then I probably wouldn't let her dance yet either, because I wouldn't have gotten to see HOW much she's ALREADY learned.

(Then again the teacher should have noticed how well her posture, and moves were for an intermediate class.)

I really think it might boil down to how many classes she's had with THIS teacher.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are people out there who don't have any rhythm when it comes to dancing. They have 2 left feet and move in the opposite direction of the others. Not everyone is cut out to be a good dancer, just like not everyone can sing or play an instrument etc...

I have a student who falls in this category. I teach at a park district so my class is all levels. She's been with me for over 3 years. She comes to almost every class and has a great time "dancing" She's not performed with my student troupe but if she ever wanted to I wouldn't turn her away. They are a student troupe and I only put them out there in the right environment that is condusive to students.

If this hafla is held at a ME restaurant and students are going to be performing there, then why shouldn't she get the opportunity to dance with the other students. I would just make sure that it is announced that this is a student peforming. If there are some GP there, they would understnd she's not trying to be a professional and would be more accepting of her shortcomings.

If the instructor hosting the hafla wants it to be more professional than a true hafla, bill it as such and explain to her student that she is looking for a certain skill level to perform. And let the student know where she is falling short so she can work on improving those areas.

I've seen plenty of dancers who are still at what I'd consider a beginning level, even after 10+ year of classes.

And I agree with everything Lauren said regarding the teacher.

I would agree that perhaps "experienced" isn't the best choice of words because it's kind of vague. It also sets the teacher up for a resentful reaction in the event the student sees the teacher letting someone else with fewer years of study perform in that show.

It's better if the teacher can say, "Your technique doesn't match the rest of the group, we need to work on having you do it the way I teach it," or, "We'll need to work more on your stage presence skills before I can have you dance in my event," or whatever.

I know of a past situation in which a teacher (not me) told a student she couldn't perform with the troupe yet because she wasn't good enough. The student became upset because the teacher had never corrected her in class, not even once. So the student BEGGED the teacher to start giving her feedback that would enable her to grow in her skills, and even then the teacher still didn't do it. This teacher told me she was afraid to offer correction because ONCE several years earlier she had given a correction to a student and the student became upset with her. So because of that one isolated incident she now refused to correct anybody no matter how much they needed it.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I would agree that perhaps "experienced" isn't the best choice of words because it's kind of vague. It also sets the teacher up for a resentful reaction in the event the student sees the teacher letting someone else with fewer years of study perform in that show.

It's better if the teacher can say, "Your technique doesn't match the rest of the group, we need to work on having you do it the way I teach it," or, "We'll need to work more on your stage presence skills before I can have you dance in my event," or whatever.

I know of a past situation in which a teacher (not me) told a student she couldn't perform with the troupe yet because she wasn't good enough. The student became upset because the teacher had never corrected her in class, not even once. So the student BEGGED the teacher to start giving her feedback that would enable her to grow in her skills, and even then the teacher still didn't do it. This teacher told me she was afraid to offer correction because ONCE several years earlier she had given a correction to a student and the student became upset with her. So because of that one isolated incident she now refused to correct anybody no matter how much they needed it.

How terrible for the student! I welcome the opportunity to correct someone to help them become better dancers. I'd be all over anyone who begged me for correction, properly provided of course, so that he/she could get what he/she wanted from the class! Oy!

Deborah

Originally Posted by Lauren_

1) Having a 'student showcase' in a restaurant that's open to the public just doesn't work in any level in my opinion. If these dancers are good enough to be seen by the general public in a restaurant, then why aren't they being paid? And if they're not good enough, then why are they out there? Sounds to me like Teacher needs to find a more private setting for her showcase.

Though overall I agree with what you're saying in your post, I do take a small possible exception here--not necessarily in the case of the O.P. (I don't have all the details, but the impression I have from the O.P. if of an event where dancers are selected and it *is* being marketed to the GP.)

I *have* held student dance nights at local restaurant in which students who were taking one of my performance skills class were invited to perform. It's fun for them to perform somewhere like that and it gives them a chance to get a little feeling for what happens on that stage (both the spontaneous fun nature of it and the many challenges of it. :-) BUT, a few key things:

1. I do these early in the week (not a dancer night) on a summer night (restaurant business in Mpls area tends to be slow in the summer because everyone wants to be outside.) So it's usually a night when the restaurant would otherwise be dead.

2. It's mainly marketed to the students' family and friends. We usually get enough people in that group to pretty much fill the place at the smaller restaurant I've done it at, or to fill one of the dining rooms at another.

3. ANYONE who has taken the class can perform--I don't make decisions about who is or isn't good enough.

4. In case there are any GP there, I make little table tents (and also make an announcement at the beginning and intermission of the show) that tell them what is going on, so they understand that what they are seeing are students of a wide range of experience levels, styles, etc.

It usually turns out to be a nice win-win for everyone. Restaurant owner is happy because he gets a bunch of business on a night they'd normally be empty, students are happy because they get a chance to perform (and do it in a fun place where they can have a drink afterward!), their friends and family are happy because they got to see a show AND get fed, any GP are usually happy (hey, unexpected entertainment...and if they don't want it they can ask to be seated on the other side of the restaurant), and I'm happy because, well, everybody else is happy.

As a student, I dance in a public venue where the GP are there. This is not a typical venue for BD tho and it is on an off night (Wednesday) and they don't have regular dancers there so I don't know if that makes a difference. There are several levels of "experience" that dance there some of them students like me who are now cutting their teeth on soloing in public. I will say that my instructor would never have thrown me out there if she didn't think I was ready. I am not a pro by any stretch of the imagination but that is not really what these folks are expecting. They know that there are varying skill levels.

As to your issue directly, I have more issues with the student not getting feedback that will prep her for the next show more than her being denied. If it is just that she isn't good enough yet, then the teacher should have told her that and given her a list of things to work on. I will say that the title of a student showcase should entitle her to do perhaps a small bit. Perhaps get her involved behind the scenes. The title of student does include her.

Originally Posted by Linnyg

As a student, I dance in a public venue where the GP are there. This is not a typical venue for BD tho and it is on an off night (Wednesday) and they don't have regular dancers there so I don't know if that makes a difference. There are several levels of "experience" that dance there some of them students like me who are now cutting their teeth on soloing in public. I will say that my instructor would never have thrown me out there if she didn't think I was ready. I am not a pro by any stretch of the imagination but that is not really what these folks are expecting. They know that there are varying skill levels.

As to your issue directly, I have more issues with the student not getting feedback that will prep her for the next show more than her being denied. If it is just that she isn't good enough yet, then the teacher should have told her that and given her a list of things to work on. I will say that the title of a student showcase should entitle her to do perhaps a small bit. Perhaps get her involved behind the scenes. The title of student does include her.

Good response, Linnyg.


Less in direct response to Linnyg's post, and in a more general sense, in bringing up this subject I am less concerned about whether it is a joint that normally features BD entertainment than I am about how students 1) are informed of public performance opps and accompanying requirements and 2) how students assess their own skills and abilities.

Boy, this gets stickier and stickier the more I think about it . . . lots of ego stuff that comes with performing at any level.

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Good response, Linnyg.


Less in direct response to Linnyg's post, and in a more general sense, in bringing up this subject I am less concerned about whether it is a joint that normally features BD entertainment than I am about how students 1) are informed of public performance opps and accompanying requirements and 2) how students assess their own skills and abilities.

Boy, this gets stickier and stickier the more I think about it . . . lots of ego stuff that comes with performing at any level.

Deborah

Good questions. I knew about the venue by going to another venue and seeing someone who subbed for my teacher. She is one of the schedulers and I feel very comfortable with her. I then went several times to the other place to check out the type of people that go there, how they respond to the dancers, general atmosphere. I described the lay out to my teach and we were off with the choreo.

Because the scheduler knows my teacher, she trusted her judgment about if I was ready or not. If left to me, I wouldn't have done it, ever, so I really needed the push. I don't think that I am a good judge of my own talent. I tend to think I stink. I know that there are those out there who think that they are gods gift after very little training. I don't think that students should be the ultimate judge of readiness but perhaps they need to take a moment back to see if their teachers are preparing them for performance or holding them back.
I am not suggesting that anyone mentioned here has done this, just my rambling thoughts.

Originally Posted by ssipes

I've seen plenty of dancers who are still at what I'd consider a beginning level, even after 10+ year of classes.

And I agree with everything Lauren said regarding the teacher.

My first reaction was 10 years and just intermediate! Not trying to take this off topic but I know instructors who have 15 plus years experience and their technique sucks..w.:

Since we do not have a standardized evaluation within our community as to what makes a student intermediate or advanced that in it self is a problem.

What one person calls intermediate another instructor calls them advanced and another instructor calls the student beginner .....

I, have fallen into this exact situation. I have one instructor who thinks I'm advanced, I have another who says I'm intermediate and the one who is my most precious instructor says I'm a beginner.

I believe that we as Instructors need to let our students know what our standards are. Be honest with them and when we have certain student venues that require a certain skill level put out what those expectations are ahead of time....

That way we don't have to be vague and say your not experienced enough. They can see what area's they are lacking in and then we as instructors can work with them to improve.

I can only go by my experience but I talked with my instructor on a quarterly basis. I would take them out to lunch and I would let her know my goals. IE turning professional and she then gave me the standards I had to meet before being blessed to dance professionally. One of those area's was being able to do floor work, spin and veil work. So we then set privates just to work on that and other area's I was lacking in which included improving my appearance, make-up and costumes. I had a lot of stuff to work on....

As far as I'm concerned for my students. I will let them know what is required (my standards) before allowing them to advance to the next level. I don't care how long they have been taking lessons with other instructors. They have to have a certain skill set.

Okay getting off the soap box. :soapbox:

Because the scheduler knows my teacher, she trusted her judgment about if I was ready or not. If left to me, I wouldn't have done it, ever, so I really needed the push.

Which would have been a shame. I was at her first performance and Linnyg was absolutely lovely. (I was the blonde in the red costume :))

I think this is a tricky thing, in general, because unlike a high school math teacher, BD teachers are for the most part dealing with people who are hobbyists. The greater portion of their students will never be professionals. So you don't want to trample on feelings or turn it into a do or die situation but not everyone is right for every show. In my area, there are tons of shows that anyone can sign up for. More than a hafla, less than a professional venue. They are great for polishing skills or just having fun. But I have also been to the show where professional dancers were needed but inexperienced dancers, some long-term dancers at that, were the ones on stage and it's painful for everyone.

It's not fair to move someone along who doesn't have the skill to perform or study at that level. It not fair to the audience, the other dancers and most of all to the student because they can't get better if they aren't getting the help.

Anyway, that's just my .02.

I've only ever been involved in one student showcase in a restaurant, but what we did was book the restaurant during a time when it would normally be *closed* and held it as a private event. The restaurant was happy, because we pre-sold dinner tickets for the limited menu and wouldn't have held the event if we couldn't have sold enough tickets to pay them. The place was PACKED with dancers, students and friends, the dancers got to play to a 'real' restaurant environment, and since no GP was present we didn't have to put the dancers through a selection process. There's another local troupe director who does something similar in a privately-booked (closed) restaurant every month or so.

If a venue is open to the public, though, we may have to let go of the notion that because it's a student show, all students are entitled to perform. Being a student entitles you to take classes, which is what you pay for. Performance is a privilege which carries a whole 'nother set of responsibilities, and representing the art form in front of the public is an even higher privilege to be earned.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I've only ever been involved in one student showcase in a restaurant, but what we did was book the restaurant during a time when it would normally be *closed* and held it as a private event. The restaurant was happy, because we pre-sold dinner tickets for the limited menu and wouldn't have held the event if we couldn't have sold enough tickets to pay them. The place was PACKED with dancers, students and friends, the dancers got to play to a 'real' restaurant environment, and since no GP was present we didn't have to put the dancers through a selection process. There's another local troupe director who does something similar in a privately-booked (closed) restaurant every month or so.

If a venue is open to the public, though, we may have to let go of the notion that because it's a student show, all students are entitled to perform. Being a student entitles you to take classes, which is what you pay for. Performance is a privilege which carries a whole 'nother set of responsibilities, and representing the art form in front of the public is an even higher privilege to be earned.

Paragraph 1: yes!

Paragraph 2: understanding that it might come across as harsh, I respond, with lots of love in my heart, "amen to that."

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Paragraph 1: yes!

Oh, I should have added the other thing that made me happy -- the restaurant was packed with a *supportive* audience. GP restaurant audiences expect all bellydancers to be young, slender, beautiful creatures and will occasionally speak up loudly if the dancer doesn't meet their expectations. I'd never subject my students to that.

Paragraph 2: understanding that it might come across as harsh, I respond, with lots of love in my heart, "amen to that."

Deborah

I don't mean to be harsh at all, thank you for adding the love! I've never, thus far, had to stop a student from performing anywhere *knocks wood* so I swear I'm not as harsh as I sound. But I do set out certain expectations, above and beyond attending class, for those who want to perform outside of student venues.

Sorry, I've threadjacked again! I'm a hopeless mental wanderer...,f::

This is a tough one, because we don't know so many varibles that would really help in deciphering what's going on.

But the term "experience" keeps circling in my mind...

My question is...does the student have performance experience? Because even if the student has been going to classes for many years, if they haven't performed much in public or in certain types of venues and the teacher is selecting students that do have lots of practical application experience, I can understand her being picky about who is in the show.

But if it's a regular/hafla student night with all levels of experience being encouraged, than I think she should be able to dance.

Not every "student night" has to be open to all levels, some can be just for more advanced/pre-pro/pro students.

I have never been in this student's position, however, I have been in the teacher/troupe director position where there is one or two students that had a poor attitude or thought that they were entitled to a performance, just by showing up to practices.

I've held back more talented students because their attitude was bad and I've given spots to less talented dancers because I felt they where really trying to grow.

From the teacher perspective, it is really important to be pragmatic with students, at least the ones that are willing to accept feedback and guidance, and to be forthcoming about where their trouble spots are and how they can improve. Usually this is very motivating to students and gives them something to aspire to, but alas some will be angry with even a gentle critique or the smallest correction.

Performing is a skill separate from dancing and needs to be taught as such.

I have a technically quite brilliant young student, but who has the facial expression of a turnip. I'm working with her to FEEL the music, and SHOW me how's she's feeling it -- ie "performing" -- but it's slow-going. She is a good dancer, technically, but NOT ready to be performing in front of the GP.

On individual correction -- this is ABSOLUTELY the most important thing we can give our students. I believe in it whole-heartedly, and I give correction in front of the class when I feel the whole class would benefit from it. I did get read the riot act once from a student who thought I should pull her aside and quietly correct her. I told her that's not how I teach my classes. She is still my student. Teachers, stick to your guns and don't let your students take control of how you teach.

I like to tell students it's not the years but what you DO with them that counts. One class a week for a year = 52 hours of practice. If you don't practice outside of class, that's ALL you get in a year. In 5 years, that's 260 hours. Personally I get well over 260 hours of practice in EACH YEAR!

I paint (watercolor) but not seriously. I've been painting since around 1997. Should I be a professional painter by now?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I don't mean to be harsh at all, thank you for adding the love! I've never, thus far, had to stop a student from performing anywhere *knocks wood* so I swear I'm not as harsh as I sound. But I do set out certain expectations, above and beyond attending class, for those who want to perform outside of student venues.

I truly believe that most teachers are not harsh, but sometimes what students need to hear sounds harsh to the student; and it's only really sounding harsh to the student because he/she has expectations different from the teacher. ..c::

I think I just hurt myself going around in circles.

I also think it's pretty reasonable, from a student perspective, to assume time served in classes = all student performance opps. I think there is often a misunderstanding that all performances are equal; for example, the hafla at the local veterans' hall seems to be the same as the student show at the Greek restaurant because students are invited and encouraged to dance at the hafla and students are dancing at the restaurant.

The only way to avoid or at least minimize this assumption is to very clearly specify what performance entails and how venues differ from one another. I guess that education needs to start with the very first recital?

AnnaTX makes a great point here: "From the teacher perspective, it is really important to be pragmatic with students, at least the ones that are willing to accept feedback and guidance, and to be forthcoming about where their trouble spots are and how they can improve. Usually this is very motivating to students and gives them something to aspire to, but alas some will be angry with even a gentle critique or the smallest correction."

Ah, yes . . . one of those "rubs" mish mish mentioned in her post: not everyone is willing to listen.

Deborah

Originally Posted by adeylah

Which would have been a shame. I was at her first performance and Linnyg was absolutely lovely. (I was the blonde in the red costume :))

Thank you. Once again, face to face with a bhuzzer and didn't even know it!

Back to topic....