Thread: To Note or Not to Note...

Also a spin off from the Left or Right problem...

So students out there, do you prefer to write your own notes when learning a choreography, or to have pre made notes from your teacher? Is it better for your learning to have to take your own notes?

hmmm, I often like to have printed notes, and then add my own comments later. But then again, I am more of a visual and kinesthetic person, so I learn more by watching and doing than writing and reading anyway.

Originally Posted by resullivan

hmmm, I often like to have printed notes, and then add my own comments later. But then again, I am more of a visual and kinesthetic person, so I learn more by watching and doing than writing and reading anyway.

Ditto. Having a printed version also helps in the case of the troupe I dance with because we're a large group. Eg, we make up a new choreography for one show, then decide to do it in a different show next year, after new dancers may have joined the group. Having a written standard version can really help those "now, which arm was up, which corner were we facing for that move?" moments when we have to teach the choreography again.

Same here. I find I would rather be dancing and practicing than be sitting and writing notes. However, I have written notes on new combinations to have a "practice sheet" at home. Also, my best friend is great at taking notes. I think she writes them after the class, from memory. She is more of a note person, I am more visual/muscle memory. Makes for a great team when we practice together!

I like to be given printed notes, and then I'll add my own comments to them when convenient. While in the workshop, I want to drill the dance and embed it into muscle memory, not write notes.

What everyone else has already said...

I like pre-printed notes/choreographies from my instructors. Then, at a later time, I can make individual notes or clarifications on it if I need to.

Originally Posted by s1dur1_sab1tu

Also a spin off from the Left or Right problem...

So students out there, do you prefer to write your own notes when learning a choreography, or to have pre made notes from your teacher? Is it better for your learning to have to take your own notes?

I prefer to get notes. I do not like to stop & take notes while learning. The notes remind me later of what I learned. I need to be doing it in order to learn it, so that's why I don't find it practical to carry a note book around.

If the teacher can provide choreography notes, that rocks. Amar Gamal always does.

First can I say that I completely disdain choreography? It cripples inspirational art. :-P

Next... it's a necessary evil when working with a group. I normally write a choreography out, print the sucker and pass it out. When we learn it people can write their own notes on it if they need/want to.

I wonder if I can be even more of a priss and not use any notes at all? Just teach from memory. Hmmm... if I had more time and some guinea pigs I would try that. I bet it would work if you could do it by video for instant replay.

Eccentricly Yours,
~*Genisis*~

I prefer to receive notes. It gives me ideas on how to do notation, as well as maximizes my times in class to dance

Ok, I was feeling guilty for giving notes there for a sec. I agree, especially since I can tend to mis-remember the details of my own choreography at times, keeps it all together for me having the notes.

I know when I was new, it was too hard for me to do notes and dance, plus I had no way of describing the movements - no vocabulary - and I didn't know how to count the music, so I had a difficult time all around.

Now I teach the counts, the musical cues, the vocabulary, and represent it in my notes. As a teacher I try to attack all the different ways that people learn. Some of my students get the notes and never even look at them, others rely on them quite a bit. It's all about learning style I suppose and trying to meet the needs of different learners.

It makes me CRAZY when my teacher doesn't have notes written for us. Somebody always gets stuck in the corner madly trying to write things down as she teaches the dance. If it's me, that means I DON'T GET TO DANCE. She'll only run through a 16 to 32 count section two or three times, then it's on to the next thing, and I might not have gotten to try it once before she moves on. And then she wonders why we didn't practice the dance before the next class? Hello! It's because we didn't get a chance to LEARN it!!

I have officially abdicated from EVER being the note taker again. I don't pay my teacher $80/semester so I can sit on the floor and write. If she wants us to be able to keep up with the choreo week to week, she has to give us notes. Otherwise she will just have to teach the same bits over and over again.

Can you tell this is a sore spot with me? Am I being too subtle? :-D

Originally Posted by tigerb

Can you tell this is a sore spot with me? Am I being too subtle? :-D

My first instructor passed out no notes -- you wrote them down as you went if you wanted to remember anything. Hated it. Felt I was paying to have some fun in class, not to really learn anything cause by the time I got home I was lucky if I could remember one thing we'd done (ditto for most seminars I attend).

When I started teaching, I always handed out notes -- not only for choreo classes, but for drills, combo classes, lecture classes, style analysis classes, even for parts of the warm up! If people want to add to my notes with notes of their own -- more power to them -- but I don't want anyone to walk out of class feeling like they spent more time writing than learning or that they won't be able to recreate what we did in class because they have nothing in hand to jog their memories.

I might add that compared to hand outs I see/get from other instructors (whether from classes or workshops), mine are very detailed. I once picked up choreo notes from a friend for a routine she taught in a workshop. I asked if I could teach it to my troupe and she said sure -- but I ended up re-writing her choreo notes. Her notes were less than 1 page long. Mine are 4 pages long.

Just a note to those of you making handouts for seminars -- I know it costs $$ to print them out. But one page of notes for a 5 minute dance will not be of much help to me after I leave the workshop...c:: In fact, I'd rather pay an extra $15-$25 for a simple, non-professionally filmed video of the choreography or of the material covered in the workshop. With a video even those cryptic one page notes make sense!!!

I make my notes available on my website for beginner & intermediates. (Level 4 notes are distributed under the Cone of Silence in our private Yahoo Group. ..g.: ) I got tired of paying for copies/toner/paper to hand out so many copies that I'm certain were never used. (I will print a copy for an internet-challenged student who asks)

I *wish* students would bring them in and add their own notation. Trying to read other people's notes is ..c:: . I have ONE student who will come to me with the notes and ask for clarification of things so she can add her own notes. I suspect the others either aren't practicing or are practicing from memory.

OOPS. Sorry, that wasn't what you asked! Yes, I LOVE it when teachers make notes available, even though I often find them meaningless to me afterward. Sometimes it's just enough to jog my memory.

Originally Posted by kat

But one page of notes for a 5 minute dance will not be of much help to me after I leave the workshop...c:: In fact, I'd rather pay an extra $15-$25 for a simple, non-professionally filmed video of the choreography or of the material covered in the workshop. With a video even those cryptic one page notes make sense!!!

For a workshop, that would be SO ideal, and I would for sure pay extra for something visual to help me retain what I paid to learn in a workshop - even, like you said, if it was very basic quality.

For classes, I love notes - I always add my own scribbles to them but it makes a big difference to how much I remember down the line

i dont hand out notes during the beginning of the class series, when teaching choreo i want them to write down the choreo themselves and/or develop methods of remembering without notes. i stay after class for them and help them make notes. i also "teach" taking choreo notes. i might hand them the choreo in writing after a few weeks, but not right away.

i started with the "i give you a handout and you add your own remarks", but they would never do that, i think students remember MUCH better if they have to write it down themselves.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i dont hand out notes during the beginning of the class series, when teaching choreo i want them to write down the choreo themselves and/or develop methods of remembering without notes. i stay after class for them and help them make notes. i also "teach" taking choreo notes. i might hand them the choreo in writing after a few weeks, but not right away.

i started with the "i give you a handout and you add your own remarks", but they would never do that, i think students remember MUCH better if they have to write it down themselves.

I totally agree- I know that I learn best when I have to think for myself.

In an ongoing class it's OK for me to write my own notes because we will have enough time to repeat the choreo as often as needed.

But in a workshop the time is limited and I don't want to spend it sitting on the floor, writing notes that I won't be able to read later anyway!

I stopped writing down choreos in workshops a long time ago because I never practiced them anyway. Instead I just write down the combos I like to remember and use in my own choreo. But I know that other people go to WS to learn choreos that they can use later so I always give out notes in my workshops and if there's enough time at the end of the workshop, I let them sit down and go through the notes quickly to see if there is any question. (Especially if they are notes that I translated into English or French - ever tried to describe a dance in a foreign language??? ,f:: )

MEISSOUN

Originally Posted by resullivan

hmmm, I often like to have printed notes, and then add my own comments later. But then again, I am more of a visual and kinesthetic person, so I learn more by watching and doing than writing and reading anyway.

+1 ..l;,

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i stay after class for them and help them make notes.

Wow, that is EXTREMELY nice of you. That would prevent one thing that makes me nuts about writing one's own notes -- when you just plain write something down incorrectly. It's nice to have the teacher right there to say, "No, the hip drops come BEFORE the turn..."

The other thing I find frustrating about class choreos is when my teacher happens to pick a song that is hard to find. I mean, yes, I complain when I have no notes/my own bad notes to practice from... but if I can't get the music anywhere, I really can't practice at all. This doesn't happen that often, but every once in a while she'll pick one I just can't find anywhere. (And it's always a GREAT track that I'd love to own, too.) For an impossible-to-find, out of print number, sometimes her teaching assistant will send us mp3s, which is nice.

I'm not a notes taker. If the Instructor has a hand out that is great. To be truthful, I'm not that big on learning choreographies with the exception of those I make myself.

I prefer having the written notes given to me. I find it difficult to write notes and take instructions at the same time!!!!!

I don't write notes either, I did when I first started out but these days' I prefer to pick up the essence of the style being taught, if that makes sense.
I am gratefull for notes handed out though.

I always give out hand outs at the begining of class. I have hand outs for everything saved in a nice little folder than I can make copies of year after year for students. I like making those, they're fun! I thought we were talking about choreography notes. :-P

I have a special way that I write choregraphies so that they can be easily understood and follow a formula. I include the count and how it's divided on the left side of the page so you can read how it breaks up with multiple movements. I use commas to indicate when you start with one movement and move to another. I use a dash to indicate when you do two or more movements simultaneously. The dancers I work with are already familiar with most of my terminology so I normally don't have to explain too much. L always means Left and R always means R.

Basic Example for a 9/8 Choreography:

6/2 Complex Turk. Hop, Quarter Spin L/Hands on Hips

The 6 indicates the exact number of steps involved in a complex Turkish Hop. The 2 indicates the remainder of space in the count left to make a spin. When done with the music it is designed to fit the timing. Sometimes I get silly questions like, "What do I do with my hands during the Complex Turkish Hop?" That movement itself involves set hand gestures so I didn't need to make note of it. However a person learning the choreography may want to write something next to it about hand positioning if they want to.

Some people learn movements under different names than the ones I use and so they may want to cross out my word and use one they're more familiar with. The first run through of a choreography is always slowed down for note taking. Life just works like that. I have yet to write one that my fellow dancers haven't doodled all over. I think it actually makes the piece of paper look well loved. *Dopey Grin*

~*Genisis*~

(I had to continue this train of thought here since it was too long to go with my last posting.)

I think notes should be covered in the cost of classes or workshops if we're talking instructor notes. It has never cost me more than $11 to make copies of things and that was several hundred pages. That can easily be absorbed into class/workshop costs and you can save the receipt for taxes. :-P

~*Genisis*~

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i when teaching choreo i want them to write down the choreo themselves and/or develop methods of remembering without notes. i stay after class for them and help them make notes. i also "teach" taking choreo notes.
i think students remember MUCH better if they have to write it down themselves.

I agree. If I get notes at a workshop, they never make sense to me a week later, so I write them out for myself. I teach my students how to write choreo and tell them to adjust it to their own "remembering style" (ie. diagrams vs stage directions).

I don't write notes during a workshop because I want to focus on what's being taught, but I'll write it out right after - that helps with remembering too.

I HAVE to have notes. I usually dont use them until a few minutes after the workshop when I will grab a friend who is willing to go over the chore with me, so we dan decifer them, and then make our own notations on them. Then we practice two to um...10 times (um...hello Aziza master class!), until we dont need the notes and can remember from our own heads. Only then do the notes later make sense to me.

Choreography sheet AFTER they've learned the whole choreo in class. That means, I've taught the whole choreography in class, which depending on the choreo could be after about four weeks. Up till then, I encourage them to make their own notes if they need to. They get the choreo into their bodies, get to know the music, and then get notes which are not extremely detailed, more a reminder. This is what my teacher taught me to do and I find it is very helpful - students don't get bogged down trying to dance off the notes, they spend their class time looking at me and copying what I do. The notes are a memory jog.

Originally Posted by amity166

Same here. I find I would rather be dancing and practicing than be sitting and writing notes. However, I have written notes on new combinations to have a "practice sheet" at home. Also, my best friend is great at taking notes. I think she writes them after the class, from memory. She is more of a note person, I am more visual/muscle memory. Makes for a great team when we practice together!

HEHE!! That's me! I learn and then repeat it in my brain all the way home (a good 45 mins) and then write it down from memory. I really need it when I get practicing. Otherwise, I tend to forget it and then what do I have to practice? And also since I go through it in my mind so many times it sticks better right from the beginning. But, it is nice when I have something written for me and then I can just add my notes. I just have a knack for writing moves down in words that can be understood. Unless I have to I really don't write it down during class, 'cause then I would probably miss something

(xoxo Josie!)


Heather

I take my own notes. I find if I have to write it out I'm more likely to remember what I'm supposed to be doing.

Gyda

For class, I drill the choreography into the body - then when we are finished (weeks later usually) they get notes. Students can then relate what they do with what is on the paper.

When I am a student in a workshop - yes, I make notes - once I have the movements. Pointless taking notes before then - unless it is once of those verbal gifts teachers sometimes drop. I also use a video at lunchtime.

I am quite happy for a teacher not to provide choreography notes. I find other people's choreography notes often too obscure to follow - or different from what was taught on the day. I rarely want to "learn a choreography" any way - I'm more interested in interpretation and ways of working with the music and the body.