Thread: NIGHTMARE student insisting on performing! Will ruin everything what do I do???

Please help me to be a gentle and tactful instructor.,f:: or not....
I love my students and I have a lot of them. Recently however a lady has joined my drop ins welcome class at the Y and is driving everyone crazy. She interrupts constantly to ask questions about moves that we aren't even working on and in the middle of doing combos, drills or choreography she will stand in the center of the room and just do whatever she wants. She runs into people and causes traffic jams in the middle of travelling steps. Sometimes she just stands there with a blank look on her face while people yell at her to get out of the way.
We have been working on a veil choreo for 2 months and the big performance is Tues. Out of 40 or so students only about 10 will be performing although it is open to everyone. So that is a small number and everyone will be noticed - no chance to hide in the back. This choreo involves some partnered circling and this lady refuses to work with her partner. Everyone has begged me to do something about her. They have even thought of ways to trick her into not coming to the performance. I mean this is the worst student I have ever encountered. She is rude and basically ruins class for everyone. I have been trying to ignore her but last night I physically ran into her while she insisted on doing shimmies while pouting in the mirror while we were doing grapevines with camels. AHHHH! Ok rant over. What should I do?! What should I say?! We can't have her in the performance or it will be ruined!
I should also add that this is a 5 minute choreo so the pain and misery will be prolonged.

eeee gads! Give her a solo cameo of 30 seconds???

Oh dear. I think you have to tell her that her behavior in class is not appropriate and she is not ready to be in the performance at this time. Poor you!

Is there an option to reimburse her? Do you have any more rehearsals between now and the performance?

I have been in the place of your other students - the ones who work hard and and practice and really care about the performance. I know my instructor didn't think this one girl was ready (indeed, she caused traffic jams in rehearsal - to the point that we were afraid to dance around her), and we knew she was a bit of a train wreck.

She was very nervous about performing and she didn't know the choreography, but she insisted on performing.

I'm just thinking - you could have a private conversation with her and just tell her you don't think she's ready to perform. If she insists she's ready, perhaps you could tell her you don't agree, but if she can prove herself at the next rehearsal, you'll let her perform. Otherwise, you'll have to cut her. (You never know - she could buckle down and come through for you.)

If she gets upset, you could explain to her that her unwillingness to focus during class/rehearsal is disruptive to your class, and as a last resort, thank her for her time, ask her not to come back to class, and reimburse her class fee.

This is art, but it's also business; it's your reputation as an instructor and a choreographer. Asking her not to participate is a business decision, and as such, should be done in a calm, objective way.

If the other girls are worried about her performing and making them look bad, tell them not to worry about it; if they work hard and dance well, it will be very clear who is a poor dancer.

Oh thats awful! We had kind of a pain in one of our classes... although I don't think this bad. My teacher did end up talking to her. She tried to be tactful at first but basically told her if she wanted to be part of a group then she had to be practicing with them, partnering with them and following the instructors direction. I think she ended up having to get pretty blunt with her in the end... the rest of the class is paying money to be here, spending their time practicing in and out of class and it's not fair of you to ruin it for them.
This is going to sound awful and I don't mean it to... we've also had a couple times where pretty much the whole class more or less had an intervention... in mass told them to straighten up and quit wasting our time. Sometimes peer pressure can be used for good.
Good luck and I hope you find a solution
Shannon

Before my last hafla, my teacher simply stated that ONLY those who REALLY know the dance/choreo will be allowed to dance in the hafla.

My instructor, back when i was in the beginner/intermediate groups (and still, even with our troupe!) makes each person perform the choreo solo for her before they are allowed on stage.

Some of the behavior you described makes me wonder whether she is mentally ill.

You have a responsibility to your other students to deal with her. If you don't do it, you'll start losing them. They'll lose respect for you.

A requirement to be in my student shows is that you need to be able to perform the routine on your own. If she can't do that, she can't perform.

This is an adult doing this?!?!?!? ,m::

Originally Posted by LizzyDancer

Before my last hafla, my teacher simply stated that ONLY those who REALLY know the dance/choreo will be allowed to dance in the hafla.

Agreed and since she refuses to work with her partner, she shouldn't be allowed. But I wouldn't want to open the door for her to go to her partner and pretend to work with the other person just for show. She will stick out as a sore thumb in the routine.

Maybe you can say that because she hasn't been a part of the class since the beginning of the sessions (even though it is a drop in class) only those who've been there the longest can perform?

If she refuses to learn along with the other class mates and work with them, she shouldn't perform!

Are you putting on the show?

Her behaviour sounds very extreme, and it might be worth asking her to leave the class, however, I know how when you write things down they sometimes seem more extreme than they really are. If the behaviour was less extreme, it could be worth getting each pair to run through the choreography as a duet only, to check that everyone can remember it without the rest of the group being there. It might help to let people know the week before that you are planning on doing this, if she wants to work in a pair, and is picture perfect during the run throughs then fine, otherwise, it will be a good sign that she isn't ready for the show.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

You have a responsibility to your other students to deal with her. If you don't do it, you'll start losing them. They'll lose respect for you.

I have seen this happen before where the class size and mood changed dramatically. You are the teacher. You are in charge. Sometimes you have to do things that aren't comfortable for the greater good.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Some of the behavior you described makes me wonder whether she is mentally ill.

You have a responsibility to your other students to deal with her. If you don't do it, you'll start losing them. They'll lose respect for you.

Ditto. It's not fair to them either.

my prof only lets us perform if a) we come to practice at least 4 of the 5 classes before the show, and b) know the choreo.

her attitude makes me wonder though. why is she paying for and coming to your class? she's clearly not there to learn...

if she looks like she just wants to practice/play around, i would tell her clearly that she can either stand in a corner at the back of the room to do it, or do it at home. she doesn't need to be up close next to you since she's not doing what you're teaching anyways.

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

Her behaviour sounds very extreme, and it might be worth asking her to leave the class, however, I know how when you write things down they sometimes seem more extreme than they really are. If the behaviour was less extreme, it could be worth getting each pair to run through the choreography as a duet only, to check that everyone can remember it without the rest of the group being there. It might help to let people know the week before that you are planning on doing this, if she wants to work in a pair, and is picture perfect during the run throughs then fine, otherwise, it will be a good sign that she isn't ready for the show.

I have to agree to this too - I've seen this type of behavior before a few times. A lot of it boils down to being the center of attention but even more so a very serious mental problem. But no matter what, she needs to be dealt with or you are going to lose some students. Good luck - I think you have enough kindness to deal with this in a humane way.

Disclaimer: Not a teacher.

I would say that you need to institute the policy that everyone needs to demonstrate a knowledge of and ability to perform the choreo before they are given the "ok" to perform as they are representing your studio. (Having two or three couples perform in front of the class seems sufficient to me.)

If she is still a disruption and you do need to take her aside and have a talk with her, I would NOT offer her a refund for classes attended only the future classes that have not taken place yet. She has been using your class as personal studio time and has had the instruction (whether or not she has chosen to accept it). Neither of those should be given away for free.

I agree with Shira, there is a possibility that there is a disability of some kind here. I do think you should gently and politely take her aside and let her know she is not ready to perform. I have had to do this with much less objectionable folks who simply weren't ready to perform & I have offered to give them private coaching if they really do want to perform.

You also need to talk to her about her behavior in class. I would really hate to exclude her entirely, especially if it IS due to a disability, but she needs to know that disruptive behavior is not tolerated. Practice the conversation with a friend if you need to , you CAN do this gently! If there is a disability involved (& I don't know how you'd find out without a friend or family member present) you may be able to find a work around, like suggesting she come to a smaller class or giving her a designated spot in the room.

Good luck!

Just say no. Try to be tactful. You are the teacher and you must deal with it or everyone else will be pissed. She is not ready to dance it from what you are saying. I agree with Shira , she sounds a bit unbalanced. Manic ? It can get hairy just before performances, in any group. I say this to my troupe if some of them are getting bossy or begin correcting one another in front of one another. THERE IS NO "I" IN TEAM. That usually nips it in the bud pretty quick and people refocus quickly. I know it is hard to tell people "no you cannot perform this time" She will cause such a distraction it will draw the attention away from the girls who get it and have worked very hard. Good luck.

Whatever she is or is the matter with her- you are teacher and your students have had enough!
Time to deal. She doesn't tell you- you tell her!
Time and time again we get the awkward student scenario and I come up with the same answer. Think of the majority.
You can offer privates if she is that keen, maybe an extra 1/2 hour after class to get up to scratch.
Say sorry you don't perform you are not ready. That is my decision.
If she pi$$es off, doesn't sound like much of a loss.
If she has a personality disorder, social problem, you aren't a counsellor, socail worker (are you) so over to the professionals..hard hearted Hannah yes that's me but I tend to think in terms of keeping the majority happy.
Have a trouble maker in your midst (and some people thrive on stiring up the shi$e for everyone else) and not just you is made unhappy. Your first duty is to your loyal, hard working students.

(Quote Partially deleted)

Originally Posted by eshtabellydance

Please help me to be a gentle and tactful instructor.,f:: or not....
I love my students and I have a lot of them. Recently however a lady has joined my drop ins welcome class at the Y and is driving everyone crazy. She interrupts constantly to ask questions about moves that we aren't even working on and in the middle of doing combos, drills or choreography she will stand in the center of the room and just do whatever she wants.

When she interupts your class to ask questions about moves that you aren't working on, and stands in the center doing what she wants, do you tell her that's not what we're working on right now, and if your working on your own choreo, please stand waaay over there (pick a spot for her), so we don't run into you?
If you didn't nip this in the bud, the first time it happened, I don't think you can be 'delicate' now. Just tell her straight out. Now!

I agree with the above (especially Shira, it's NOT fair to the other students to have to put up with this).
You have to tell her, if she can't do the choreo, then she can't dance in the show.
The show is a GROUP of dancers, working a choreo TOGETHER!
Not ONE doing what she FEELS like, trying to take over the spotlight.

I would tape the class rehearsal (NOW), and play it back for them RIGHT THEN....then show her how messed up it looks.
Then tell her she's not ready yet.
(Hopefully she'll be able to SEE that she's not ready)

I really feel for you.

(((Hugs)))

Well, you can't just exclude her from the performance because she's a pain in the butt.

However, you CAN exclude her from the performance for refusing to follow your choreography like the others, or you feel she will tarnish the performance of the hard-working students.

I think her behavior in class should be addressed as a separate issue. Next time she interrupts in class, perhaps you could tell her to speak to you after class about moves she'd like to work on - right now you're working on THIS and to please not interrupt. It can be done politely, but matter-of-factly... If she does come after class with technique she'd like to learn, perhaps you could incorporate it into future classes. (Don't spend this time teaching her - she can pay for private classes for that)!

Don't beat around the bush. Be sensitive, but be truthful.

Hang in there! She sure sounds like one trying woman!

I totally agree with everything above.

It's VERY hard for me to be tough with students. I want so badly for them all to behave like adults and let me just teach dance, not manage classroom behavior. And most of the time they do.

But occasionally you do have to be a harda$$. Psyching yourself up for harda$$ duty is tough. What works for me is thinking about the other students in class. I don't want to be 'mean,' but by being 'nice' to this one student, I'm being mean to *everyone* else and they're suffering. They need me to do my job, even when I don't want to.

I think you need to take her aside after class and calmly tell her that she doesn't know the choreography well enough to perform this time. I know from experience that when you've been 'soft' it seems harsh to suddenly step in with a major intervention, and you may feel guilty or cowardly for not having given her any warnings. But the situation is what it is and needs to be fixed NOW there's no time for warnings at this point.

If you're willing to keep working with her, you can add 'I know you're disappointed, but I hope you'll stick with it and maybe be ready for the next performance. '

If she accepts it and chooses to stick around, you'll need to start calling her out in class by name. Quickly, as part of the directions 'Now shimmy over a grapevine, to the left! Suzy, if you're not going to participate in this please step out of the group. Everyone, watch your arms.'

If she doesn't comply with direct instruction then I'd give her one warning. 'I can't keep you or the people around you safe if you're not following my instructions. If this continues, I'll have to ask you to leave the class.'

I'd also offer a refund only for unused classes if it comes to that.

Kick her out! Oh my goodness, why are putting up with this crap.
I wouldn't and if she is that much of a problem and its up setting the rest of the class. Just kick her out and don't accept her as a student.

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

Kick her out! Oh my goodness, why are putting up with this crap.
I wouldn't and if she is that much of a problem and its up setting the rest of the class. Just kick her out and don't accept her as a student.

Ah , a woman after my own (hard) heart

I think that you should've talked to her and/or kicked her out of your class awhile ago. By allowing her to be there, you're being really unfair to your other students.

The performance thing, though, if she refuses to perform with her partner and the choreography is set in partner form at one point, she should not be allowed to perform. If she's sulking during practice, how do you know if she can execute the choreography?

I think you're trying too hard to be nice to this woman. It sounds like she is above and beyond non-cooperative and disruptive.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I totally agree with everything above.

It's VERY hard for me to be tough with students. I want so badly for them all to behave like adults and let me just teach dance, not manage classroom behavior. And most of the time they do.

But occasionally you do have to be a harda$$. Psyching yourself up for harda$$ duty is tough. What works for me is thinking about the other students in class. I don't want to be 'mean,' but by being 'nice' to this one student, I'm being mean to *everyone* else and they're suffering. They need me to do my job, even when I don't want to.

I think you need to take her aside after class and calmly tell her that she doesn't know the choreography well enough to perform this time. I know from experience that when you've been 'soft' it seems harsh to suddenly step in with a major intervention, and you may feel guilty or cowardly for not having given her any warnings. But the situation is what it is and needs to be fixed NOW there's no time for warnings at this point.

If you're willing to keep working with her, you can add 'I know you're disappointed, but I hope you'll stick with it and maybe be ready for the next performance. '

If she accepts it and chooses to stick around, you'll need to start calling her out in class by name. Quickly, as part of the directions 'Now shimmy over a grapevine, to the left! Suzy, if you're not going to participate in this please step out of the group. Everyone, watch your arms.'

If she doesn't comply with direct instruction then I'd give her one warning. 'I can't keep you or the people around you safe if you're not following my instructions. If this continues, I'll have to ask you to leave the class.'

I'd also offer a refund only for unused classes if it comes to that.

Lauren, all of this advice is excellent.

I briefly studied with a teacher who requires her students to "audition" for the opportunity to perform the choreography learned in class. I missed a class and didn't have time to practice it much on my own, so I had the good sense not to audition. If this student of yours has the cojones to actually go for it, why not videotape it so she can see how ridiculous she looks?

Originally Posted by nimah

L If this student of yours has the cojones to actually go for it, why not videotape it so she can see how ridiculous she looks?

Because deluded people often don't realize how deluded they are, even if you show them footage of themselves.

I like the idea of making the students perform it for you and make a decision. Can you do this with like 2 students at a time? You mentioned partner work.

Also - if she has not "worked" with her partner then she cannot perform. simple as that.

omg, yep ! this type has a support team at home, that are very "yes" people.
so, she is paying for an ego boost ?
sure, give her a solo, let her show how good she is, ...wink wink !

Are you sure that "traffic-jam" lady doesn't just have a different reality to yours?..g.: