Thread: What's a student to do with a choreo she hates?

Here's my situation. I've been learning and dancing with a certain group for about a year now, and am in an intermediate-level class with them. I really love the women I dance and learn with, respect them, and appreciate them. I've worked hard and learned a lot with them.

A few weeks ago, the instructor picked out this piece of music that just, for some reason, absolutely positively grates at me. I mean, it's almost unbearable to listen to. The choreo she is teaching to go with it is just as irritating to me. I honestly don't think I've practiced the whole thing through once outside of class.

This bothers me, because with the other pieces we've learned, I have loved them, worked hard, practiced hard, and really cared to make them look good. This piece has depressed me so much that I've actually considered not going back to class next month - I'm just not enjoying it, I'm not getting much of anything out of it.

I don't consider myself a complainer, but I do think I have the right to complain sometime - and this is one of those times in which I reserve my right. I feel bad for my instructor because she wants us all to look good, and tries so hard, but I just can't put my heart even the littlest bit in it, and find myself watching the clock to see how much longer I have to put up with the sounds of cats being strangled (which is about how this song sounds to me.)

I like this group and want to continue on with them, but I'm afraid I'm disappointing them so much.

Any advice on how to approach or deal with this would be much appreciated.

I think when you're working with a group, you have to suck up sometimes and just go with it. Maybe figuring out what you hate about it would be helpful

If you can't do that, then I just tell the teacher that you prefer to sit this one out because you're not feeling it.

I agree with Indigo. Part of working in a group means taking the good stuff with the ick. If you really hate it, you'll probably end up sabotaging the experience for yourself & your peers so if you can't learn to love it, you may have to sit it out.
Another option is to take some ownership for the piece--instead of fighting the music, what if you approached the instructor about creating a snippet of the choreo--could you learn to appreciate the piece and enjoy yourself more by challenging yourself to create when you want to abandon?

I completely understand where you're coming from! I went through that occasionally in my years as a student. Not very often - maybe 2-3 times in 15 years of taking classes, but it did happen.

I can suggest two options to you:

1. Drop out of class until after the teacher has finished using that choreo in class, and then return once she has moved on. Tell her privately that you're just not feeling motivated to learn that dance because you just can't bring yourself to deal with that music. Sweetly ask her to let you know when she is done using it and teaching something new. Tell her how much you love her and your classmates, and that your departure is nothing personal, you just don't care to spend money learning something you can't bring yourself to enjoy.

2. Keep going to class, and try to find *something* of value. Ie, try to find things you can learn that go beyond attaching step combinations you don't like to music you despise. For example, find out what musical instrument is being used to play it, which will enable you to know that you should avoid buying CD's that use that instrument. Or, find out what ethnic region that music is from, and find out if the dance style being taught uses moves representative of that region. If so, you can make a mental note that you won't be attending any workshops or buying any videos in that dance style any time soon. Find out what kind of costuming is appropriate to that dance style.

I really don't know which of the above two options would suit you better. If you do decide to go with #2, please don't complain every week in class about how much you hate it. If you decide to stay, then you'll need to suck it up and accept the fact that it was your decision to stay and therefore you should make the best of it.

Never hurts to hang out in the back or something - still maintain a class presence but bow out of performing it. But if you know the choreo, you might be able to do something with it later to a different song (provided your teacher is okay with that as it is her choreo).

I'm not much into mizmar-heavy songs, they make my teeth hurt.

I've dealt with this as a student, and I wound up leaving that class for a while after my teacher announced that we'd be working on this choreo for 6 months to a year! (it was literally a minute and a half of music). I went back when it was over. So that's one option.

I had a student who HATED our Turkish Romani style choreo, and was very vocal about that. She stuck it out and in the end she learned to love it and said she'd only hated it because she was frustrated, it was a hard choreo and she didn't enjoy wrestling with it. So sticking it out is one option.

The student above never directly talked to me about her issues with the choreo, the other students told me about it and we didn't get to talk about it until things were already better for her. But I would have appreciated her talking to me about it. It would've given me the chance to check in with the others and see whether it was just her or whether the rest of the group disliked it. (I think that's the teacher's job, rather than a dissatisfied student trying to drum up support among their peers and mutiny!!) I would have served the group, either abandoning the choreo if the group as a whole disliked it, or advising that individual student on other classes that might make her happier until we were done with the choreo if the group liked it.

Sometimes I start teaching a choreo that I know the group may not like, and wait to see how they react. Usually it's folkloric or very different or very challenging stuff that I'm concerned about. But talking directly to the instructor -- privately -- is a great option, especially if you're not usually a complainer.

I absolutely don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, so I never complain to the instructor or anything like that. I follow through, learn, and try not to look too unhappy.

Part of me wonders if I should approach her and tell her, "Look, I just don't like this. Can I just sit it out?" Then again, I feel like I'm still pretty novice and I don't know the rules of etiquette here. I think you give some good advice with your tip #1, Shira, and may go that route.

I am learning good things from this - new moves and such, and so I keep going to class to learn that, and at least to drill and get in some practice.

And no, I won't be buying any music from that region, ever!

Thank you for the kind advice.

Are we talking about a troupe? or student troupe from weekly classes.

If it is a professional troupe then I agree with Indigo. Just suck it up. With my Instructors professional troupe we are learning a cane dance which I like a lot, but when I saw it on video I was not to pleased with it. I personally feel that the costuming is lacking for this performance since a lot of the foot work is being covered up under full skirts and would look better if people could see our foot work. IE skirts with one slit in one leg would open up the foot work to be more visible. IMO the foot work is very important and makes the difference in this being a better presentation.

But our director sets the costuming and I am just going to suck it up and go with the troupe. I also imagine that there will be times when I do not agree with the choreo but I must do my part as a troupe member and give it my all regardless how I feel about certain things.

Who am I to judge? She has more experience than I and it is a award winning dance troupe. So I have faith in her judgement.

It's a student class troupe.

Sometimes the group experience—well, sucks, frankly.

I guess you have to decide what’s more important, or what feeds your spirit the most. What are you risking by sitting this choreography/performance out, and what are you gaining by “sucking it up” and doing it? Does one outweigh the other? Only you know the answer to that.

In the Great Scheme of Things, is performing the choreography going to injure your soul? Your development as a dancer? Or just annoy you for a short period of time while teaching you things you can use later? If you sit it out will it jeopardize relationships that you value? Or will sitting it out help teach you what you respond to as an artist?

Honestly, I don’t have an answer for you. Just throwing some stuff out there.

Originally Posted by Psyche

It's a student class troupe.

Since its a student class troupe I don't see why you could not sit this one out.
I would if its that unbearable to my psyche and there are no firm commitments as there would be for a professional troupe.

Just last week in class, (We getting ready for our student recital on the 20 december,) only three other students showed up to class. My instructor says this happens a lot as people chicken out when the time to perform comes closer and closer. So skip this one, just be kind to give advance notice so the instructor can make any changes necessary to the choreo.

I've done this myself when I was just not happy with my ability to learn the the choreo and they had a lot of spins and I'm not a big spinner. I fall over after the second spin.....w.:

Psyche.. I see you dilemma.

I would actually look at what your motivation to dance and what your goal in dance is. If you are doing it for fun and exercise - then it wouldnt hurt to sit it out... IF you just cant get yourself to learn the material.

If you are looking at a professional, semi-professional or even amateaur performer career I would recommend you to stick with it and bite the "sour apple" and "swallow the camel". As a performing dancer there are many many other things that you will have to deal with that arent necessarily to your immediate liking either, this is just another one.

Horrible choreographies, incooperative costumes, bad lighting, bad sound, low pay, arrogant patrons, slippery floors, bitchy colleagues....its what makes it all worth it as a professional dancer. It makes you REALLY appreciate it when something works out. If you are looking in this direction, I would consider myself blessed that I had learned so many pieces with nice people previously... This new piece may not be to your liking, but the people you dance with are the same - and frankly, they may need you to stick with it so THEY can suffer through the piece with you :) It's a group effort, for good and for bad, when it comes to performance/professional careers.

DaVid

Originally Posted by david

Psyche.. I see you dilemma.

I would actually look at what your motivation to dance and what your goal in dance is. If you are doing it for fun and exercise - then it wouldnt hurt to sit it out... IF you just cant get yourself to learn the material.

If you are looking at a professional, semi-professional or even amateaur performer career I would recommend you to stick with it and bite the "sour apple" and "swallow the camel". As a performing dancer there are many many other things that you will have to deal with that arent necessarily to your immediate liking either, this is just another one.

Horrible choreographies, incooperative costumes, bad lighting, bad sound, low pay, arrogant patrons, slippery floors, bitchy colleagues....its what makes it all worth it as a professional dancer. It makes you REALLY appreciate it when something works out. If you are looking in this direction, I would consider myself blessed that I had learned so many pieces with nice people previously... This new piece may not be to your liking, but the people you dance with are the same - and frankly, they may need you to stick with it so THEY can suffer through the piece with you :) It's a group effort, for good and for bad, when it comes to performance/professional careers.

DaVid

Bravo!

You might even learn to love mizmars one day. ,r:;

I sometimes intentionally learn choreographies I don't like or that are in different styles than what I am used to because it helps me grow as a dancer. I made a promise to myself as a student that if there was something that was part of this dance that I would at least be competent at it. There are a few items that when I first tried I absolutely hated, but I wasn't going to let it defeat me.

I would suggest pushing through the choreography if possible. It is really good discipline to push you out of your comfort zone.

If you don't want to keep working on it, I would suggest talking to your teacher about scheduling private lessons instead. Then when the group class moves on to something else, you can rejoin without having lost any dance practice time.

I think you've already gotten some great advice--sit it out, push through and try to let it grow on you, etc. I'd also suggest maybe asking your teacher what her goal is for the choreography and why she selected it. She might have chosen it to emphasize certain skills or other aspects of the dance. Sometimes if I know that a particular dance has a specific purpose or goal, I can look at it through a different perspective.

I have to admit I looked at your location to make sure you weren't one of my students! ..l;, We're doing assaya for the first time and it's been challenging to say the least.

I wouldn't have a problem with any of my student troupe members dropping out temporarily if they're dissatisfied with a choreo of mine. I wouldn't take it personally if any of them were honest about this reasoning, either - I know everything I do isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. The only thing I would ask is that they let me know they're dropping as soon as possible, so I can make the necessary formation changes.

I haven't been in exactly this situation but a few months ago my performers class started learning an assaya piece and about 3 of us really struggled to get into it for a few lessons. This isn't normally a problem for any of us but it just felt a bit wrong somehow.

After we discussed it together we realised that the choreography didn't work with the musical phrasing so it was really jarring on our nerves. We approached our teacher and explained that we were struggling with the choreo because the phrasing was out and demonstrated what we meant. She thought it was great that we had thought out our case and laughed that our musical sensibilities had been offended because we were experienced enough to truly feel the music.

She agreed to very slightly tweak the choreo and the problem was instantly solved. I guess the point of my story is that sometimes it can be worth approaching your teacher about these things, not to moan or complain but to explain why you are just not getting into it. It may be that there is something that s/he can do to help, or that your difficulties are flagging up a legitimate issue with the choreo. Be open minded, polite and pleasant but also up front that its becoming a problem for you.

As for the growing to love it thing, I have found throughout my life that circumstances where you have to persevere with a hated subject can sometimes end up opening new and unexpected doors. Its not a hard and fast rule, but sometimes its worth doggedly sticking at it because the end result is an epiphany.

I have to disagree with others that suggest 'sitting it out'. If this means literally sitting on the sidelines in class while others are doing that choreography, I would absolutely hate this as a teacher. If you're going to be there, participate! If you don't participate it has the effect on the class of a surly teenager...everyone else feels uncomfortable that there's a 'problem' and may start mutineering, too.

As a teacher, I would take this very personally...when I choreograph, I'm thinking of my students, of what I would like them to learn, and have put a lot of thought into what I offer them. To have a very visual demonstration of them saying 'it sucks and I'm not gonna do it' would make me feel bad and doubt myself.

So I would say, go along and participate and see what you can learn, or if you really can't, talk to your teacher about it in private...or go away for a while and come back when that choreo's all over. But given that you're part of a troupe, I don't think that last option is showing true troupe spirit. Indeed, a troupe couldn't function if everyone only did the things they felt like doing.

PS - I should say that, Psyche, you're not coming across as a surly teenager. Indeed, you sound like you are being sensitive in how you approach this issue. I'm just suggesting that 'sitting out' would create an awkward vibe.

I have to agree with those who suggest that you try to push through it. I know that, as a student, and even now, as part of a professional troupe, I have had several instances when I didn't like or didn't "get" a choreography I was given to learn. I have learned that, if I do suck it up and push through, I always grow as a dancer. There's always a new technique, a new step, a new rhythm to learn. Even if the style of dance or music isn't to your liking, you have learned something new, experienced a new level of the dance and that's never bad. It will be helpful as you continue in your dance education and, should you ever decide to become a professional or semi-pro dancer, or even, as DaVid said, have a hobby performing career, you will know what parts of the dance speak to you and what parts don't and that will help you to find your own unique style.

this has happened to me a couple times. the choreo the prof was doing just didn't appeal much to me. didn't much like the music, and/or the style, and the moves seemed nothing more than 'just okay' to me. but there were some moves later in the choreo that were just pure genious, and i loved them, i would do the whole dance in anticipation of those couple moves lol, they just seemed so worth it ^^
maybe that'll happen for you :)

When I was a student, and later part of a professional troupe, there were times where I was not happy/thrilled with the costuming choice, a music selection, or a piece of choreography...but, I did it anyway for the learning experience.

Dancers (and students) tend to gravitate towards music/costuming/styles that they PERSONALLY like, and when you are a professional, if you gravitate towards baladi or tribal fusion-then that is great...but I think that no matter what you gravitate towards naturally, that you should always be open to at least learning other styles...even if they don't appeal to you. At least be educated about them.

As an instructor now, when I teach choreographies in class, my students gravitate towards drum solo type pieces and fast tempos. They absolutely HATE it when I choreograph or make them drill for zills, or slow, snakey types of movements. I have explained to them, however, that they can't go out and do a professional set of nothing but drum solo after drum solo! ..l;, There needs to be some variety there for the audience...and therefore, they need to learn other pieces/styles. My students seem to have the most problem with slow, graceful movements (but the sharp isolations are good) and playing zills...so I also think that they aren't having as much FUN-they are having to work and think, and screw up in the process. I have to remind them that these skills are important for them to learn, and once they learn them they will enjoy and appreciate that aspect so much more.

I also suggest to get through it. Especially if you are learning new stuff from it, like new movements or combinations of movements. Each of those can help when you want to improvise later on as a soloist or practice at home to different music.

We advise our students to learn a choreography even if they hate it or the music because there are benefits of learning something you dislike strongly. We also suggest learning the choreo as a 'fill in' if one of the girls are sick :)

They all struggled through their first Karshlima ("argh we'll never get this!") because all the steps were new to them and 2 months down the track we couldn't stop them from doing it (and we as teachers got sick of the song Anwar, lol)

Give the choreo and yourself a chance to get to know each other. As for the music......you want to see my face when students want to do shimmy drills to Chicky, ,r:; ....and I'm a teacher. Glad I've got my back to them when we do that, ..l;,

Never be afraid to say something to your teacher. If she is good, she will understand that not all students are going to like everything she teaches.

Originally Posted by ambriehlmagycblade

My students seem to have the most problem with slow, graceful movements (but the sharp isolations are good) and playing zills...so I also think that they aren't having as much FUN-they are having to work and think, and screw up in the process. I have to remind them that these skills are important for them to learn, and once they learn them they will enjoy and appreciate that aspect so much more.

This reminds me that usually when there's something I enjoy the least, it's the thing I need to work on the most.

If it's just this one routine that's bothering you, I'd just keep going. Learn the routine for the sake of performance, and you might find something you love after all. Also, if you guys perform even every once in a while this choreo might pop up from time to time and you'll need to know it to perform in a show (not sure if that's something you care about, but I try to perform in every troupe performance possible).

However, if it's an ongoing thing where you find yourself not liking choreo after choreo from your instructor, it's time for a change.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

I have to disagree with others that suggest 'sitting it out'. If this means literally sitting on the sidelines in class while others are doing that choreography, I would absolutely hate this as a teacher. If you're going to be there, participate! If you don't participate it has the effect on the class of a surly teenager...everyone else feels uncomfortable that there's a 'problem' and may start mutineering, too.

I think of sitting out as not attending class while this is the focus. I agree, sitting on the sidelines creates a blackhole of negativity. But choosing not to attend the class is always an option.

I really appreciate the perspectives. I've been giving it some thought, and I figure no matter what I do, I'll let my -feelings- be known to the instructor (in a very nice manner), so that she doesn't get her feelings hurt and understands that I'm not trying to be rude or unwilling to work with others.

That said, though, I think I'm going to try to go ahead and push forward with it, regardless - because yeah, that's exactly it - I think sitting on the sidelines does create negativity. The other women in my group are so nice and such lovely people that I don't want to spoil anything for them. I think I might ask the instructor though, to consider me to stay on the sidelines for this one piece in performances - I think that if someone really looks like they don't enjoy what they're doing, it sullies the performance for everyone. Different people in the group do different numbers, so it won't look awkward at all for me to sit one out in shows.

One question, though... and again, this is me being a novice and not necessarily knowing the rules of the game here... is it fair to ask the instructor after this one is learned that we change it up to something that might be more appealing to me? (Gah! I don't want to be demanding, but I also do not want to continue on with this group if this sort of style is going to be the norm.)

I'm dying to know what style this is!

Hm.

I don't really have any advice for Psyche or an answer to her latest question, but I think I can share a story:

Our troupe has a set of choreographies. Depending on what level (junior or senior troupe) you progress through that set (which is always growing with every year).

One of the junior choreographies is the easiest to perform in any given venue - it's an Egyptian pop piece and audiences love it. So it's quickly become the Old Standby for last-minute shows at everything from street festivals to restaurant haflas.

But most of us hate it! Partially because it's lost its newness. Partially because we've done it a zillion times. But partially because the last half of it is confusing and we can usually never remember the order of the combinations. (Do we spin left or right here? Is this the hip drop part or the hip lift part?) It's just a scramble and it doesn't fit into what our instincts tell us we should be doing.

So our instructor was telling us she'd like us to keep practicing "the old ones" over the summer to keep them fresh. We should be able to go at a moment's notice and, despite the fact that we're sick of these choreographies, it's what being a performer is all about.

I like to use the analogy of Bon Jovi having to play Livin' on a Prayer every night - I'm sure they're sick to death of it, but it's part of their repertoire and they've gotta' play it.

But then we told her this one choreography doesn't work. And she agreed; she got muddled up in the same place we do! We were able to articulate to her exactly what made it so unbearable to dance this one and she agreed that it needs to be re-worked. She hasn't gotten around to it yet, but we also haven't performed it since!

I do agree that it's better for us to push through difficult or irritating choreographies, but I think it's worth it to speak up if you're able to say specifically what isn't working. Working through the problem helped us to learn that just cobbling together some of the combinations from the earlier in a choreography and sticking them at the end of a piece isn't the best idea. It isn't memorable or exciting.

In this way, we grew. And hopefully we get a fun new variation of he old standby out of it!

Boy, I'd think you'd be jumping the gun to ask for something "more appealing." (Not sure how your instructor would take it--I think *I'd* be offended.) You stated that you've enjoyed the other choreos taught, so I wouldn't assume you'll hate the next one.

Originally Posted by Safiyah

If it's just this one routine that's bothering you, I'd just keep going. Learn the routine for the sake of performance, and you might find something you love after all. Also, if you guys perform even every once in a while this choreo might pop up from time to time and you'll need to know it to perform in a show (not sure if that's something you care about, but I try to perform in every troupe performance possible).

However, if it's an ongoing thing where you find yourself not liking choreo after choreo from your instructor, it's time for a change.

I agree with this - but if you really hate it to the point of violent illness then you aren't going to help the troupe at all, so then you should sit this one out. The others will feel it from you as well. But I also agree with David that not everything is fun and peachy, and that things you don't like also go with the territory.