Thread: For the pro's: At what point did you decide that you wanted to be one?

I mean professional-quality dancing. I've been dabbling and having my fun for about 8 years now. I'm 23. So yes I'm young but so far I've clocked over 50,000 on my car travelling to workshops, went to Cairo and took private lessons until I couldn't move, and don't even want to count the dollars in teachers and instructors. Literally I've taught classes just so I could afford to learn more. I have a crazy busy job but dancing keeps me sane. I'd consider myself an intermediate dancer. But lately I been thinking about after passing a horendous test I have to take for work I would like to become pro-quality. I honestly don't ever think I'd use it for anything more than what I do now (small local haflas and a few private gigs here and there). It's honestly just a personal challenge I'd like to set for myself

At what point in your dancing travels did you decide to make this a priority and inhale BD 24/7 to become a great dancer? I know what I need to do and the map of how to get there, but I would love to hear other's stories and struggles to get to the next level?

No comments at all?

I'd be interested in hearing about this topic, too, Amity.

I think for me it was only a year of classes when i know I wanted to be on that professinal level, which is why i think i jumped out there way be for i should have. it did'nt take much

I wish I had a better story for you, but I kind of just fell into it because I had a strong dance background. I started taking classes with Amira Mor on a whim, just for fun. She saw that I could obviously dance (been doin' the ballet/tap/jazz/modern/hip hop thing my whole life), and basically said "You will be in my company!". I thought the sparkly costumes were cool and it would be fun to make an extra buck so she started sending me out on gigs. WAY to early, but I did the best I could at the time.

After I realized my dance career would be able to grow much more (on the business end and on the knowledge end) I went solo. That was about 2 years in. That's when I started soaking up all the dance knowledge I could, and also started learning how to market and manage a business. I started small - a free website, print-at-home business cards - and grew as more gigs came in and I could afford more professional marketing material. And here I am today - still growing! (Nadirah Johara is acutally working on a brand-spanking new website for me as we type!)

Not so interesting, sorry!

No, seriously anything is interesting. I fell into teaching when my teacher at the time temporarily stopped teaching. I'm kind of wondering if that's what happend with most people actually. I totally wasn't ready but it pushed me to the next level and now I feel totally comfortable sharing what I know.
Glad to hear I'm not the only one!

I would reflect this question back at you and ask you what you consider "professional"?

This definition would vary.

Professional=being able to report your income to the IRS and, thus, be able to deduct your expenses.

Professional=teaching x number of hours, performing x number of hours, training x number of hours

Professional=being able to pay all of your monthly expenses solely from dancing

Professional=getting paid more than you already are for gigs

It could be all or none of these things. Perhaps you are already professional and don't even realize it.

I became "professional" in gradual increments:
~accepting money for gigs (no IRS involvement)
~accepting money for gigs + IRS involvement, thus able to deduct expenses
~realizing that I was spending as much time devoted to dance as I was to my day job at the time (lawyer), but still doing both
~finally quitting the law practice and teaching/performing solely
~still doing paid gigs, still reporting income to IRS & deduccting expenses, but not teaching so much, and not even devoting as many hours in my life to dancing but still consider myself "professional"

No, I'm talking professional quality dancing. I understand that this also varies by area and the resources as well. I'm thinking like the "wow" factor-you know when you see a really good dancer that isn't a cookie cutter and has her own style and yet her technique is amazing-type professional. I'm not talking making moolah. I'm talking like dancers on the workshop scene, as I'm assuming people only ask you to teach workshops if you have the wow factor to them :). Yet again there are those dancers that are better teachers than dancers and vice versa-that's a whole other topic.

OK, I misunderstood your initial inquiry!
..l;,

Not answering this one!

Yeah, I probably shouldn't answer this one then either! I'm not in the "workshop circuit" at all, unless you count the workshops I teach to my own students!

That was just an example, you ladies count :) It's kinda of hard to explain and be PC.

It's hard for me to answer that question, too.

From day one, I wanted to be the best I could be. My eyes have gradually opened all along as far as what that means (there were times I thought I was pretty darn good -- hah!)

But I've never set my sights on being anything less than the best I'm capable of, so there wasn't a place along the way when I decided to be 'good amateur quality' and then decided to go higher.

I'm not saying there would be anything wrong with that way of thinking, it's just not how my perfectionistic Virgo brain works.

Am I pro quality? Well, I don't know. I've been paid to do pro gigs, by experienced buyers of bellydance entertainment for years, and hired to teach workshops by other bellydancers and university dance departments, so there are people who think I am.

But I actually have to remind myself of those accomplishments sometimes in order to not give up out of frustration. When I compare my dancing to Aziza, Orit, Dina, Randa, etc. I feel like such a lump.

The good thing is that from what I've seen of your dancing - you're already well on your way to this goal. In fact, you probably are underestimating your current skills?

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

The good thing is that from what I've seen of your dancing - you're already well on your way to this goal. In fact, you probably are underestimating your current skills?

Oh I love you

Amity - you have the WOW factor already at your young age. I can't wait to see how you progress.

I agree with Nepenthe that you underestimate yourself. You are on the right track by putting in the time, continuing your education, practicing, performing, and pursuing the dance with passion.

Originally Posted by Surida

Amity - you have the WOW factor already at your young age. I can't wait to see how you progress.

I agree with Nepenthe that you underestimate yourself. You are on the right track by putting in the time, continuing your education, practicing, performing, and pursuing the dance with passion.

And a kiss for you

you are so already there girl!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by lylagus

you are so already there girl!!!!!!!!!

And a big wet one for you my twin

I love you ladies, but I'm still a baby :)

I think its great that you feel like you still have things to learn! I learn everyday...I practice everyday...I've never seen you dance...but I'm sure you're pretty amazing. Everyone has their own style built in to them...you just don't realize it because you see yourself everyday. You take yourself for granted and don't realize the uniqueness that you and each one of us all have. Keep striving to be the best that you can be and have fun doing it! (o:

Well, funny you'd ask because I've been thinking about this lately.

When I did my first performance in May 1. 1999 after 2 1/2 months of classes I was flabbergasted by the positive re-enforcement I was getting and kind of assumed that "I must be better than I thought!". So with that ego boost on my back I agreed to a bunch of performance commitments on national TV, local restaurants and public events. Over the summer my ego finally deflated some and I was able to get inside my own head to think about what I was doing. I realized that my career had run at 100 miles an hour ahead and I was casually toddling along behind it - both in maturity and in ability. YIKES! Reality check! So I started practicing hours and hours every day. Started taking private lessons with the strictest teacher around and kept on taking whatever workshops I could attend. I challenged myself and started competing with myself. I wanted my audience to at least see some kind of improvement since the previous time they saw me.... This teacher, Lee Figenschow, had high standards and I was honestly really lazy. She kept on pushing me and telling me I had to work more at my dancing. She installed the urge to improve and ambition to show people that I wasn't just a fad (male dancer WOOHOO - woops, he quit).

Thank god for Lee, otherwise I would probably still have been admiring my own reflection in the mirror every time I got in front of it instead of using it to improve my dancing. Heck, I cant even walk past a shopping display without checking my posture anymore! Anyone else identify with that one? lol

As a guy dancer you get so much attention without really doing ANYTHING (for good and for bad). It doesnt necessarily motivate you to improve your dancing or even hold any kind of standard to your work. I'm eternally grateful to my teachers for kicking my *AS and making me work at it.

I would say that the novelty of me being a male dancer gave me professional "status" within the first year I was dancing. But the quality of my dancing really reached professional standard about 5-6 years after I started dancing. That being countless hours of practice, frustration, brief happiness, grief, joy, irritation, fun, crying, soreness and shimmies. It's not really the amount of TIME that matters, it's the quality of the time spent and the experience taken from it. I think people can become professional quality dancers at age 6 and be fabulous, but this dance reflects more than just technique - it reflects experience in dance and in life... that doesnt come from just having great technique....although THAT can get you quite far too.

DaVid

Originally Posted by Nashid

I think its great that you feel like you still have things to learn! I learn everyday...I practice everyday...I've never seen you dance...but I'm sure you're pretty amazing. Everyone has their own style built in to them...you just don't realize it because you see yourself everyday. You take yourself for granted and don't realize the uniqueness that you and each one of us all have. Keep striving to be the best that you can be and have fun doing it! (o:

That's what I will continue to do, have fun. I want to continue to learn more as long as it doesn't start to feel more like work than enjoyment

Originally Posted by david

Well, funny you'd ask because I've been thinking about this lately.

When I did my first performance in May 1. 1999 after 2 1/2 months of classes I was flabbergasted by the positive re-enforcement I was getting and kind of assumed that "I must be better than I thought!". So with that ego boost on my back I agreed to a bunch of performance commitments on national TV, local restaurants and public events. Over the summer my ego finally deflated some and I was able to get inside my own head to think about what I was doing. I realized that my career had run at 100 miles an hour ahead and I was casually toddling along behind it - both in maturity and in ability. YIKES! Reality check! So I started practicing hours and hours every day. Started taking private lessons with the strictest teacher around and kept on taking whatever workshops I could attend. I challenged myself and started competing with myself. I wanted my audience to at least see some kind of improvement since the previous time they saw me.... This teacher, Lee Figenschow, had high standards and I was honestly really lazy. She kept on pushing me and telling me I had to work more at my dancing. She installed the urge to improve and ambition to show people that I wasn't just a fad (male dancer WOOHOO - woops, he quit).

Thank god for Lee, otherwise I would probably still have been admiring my own reflection in the mirror every time I got in front of it instead of using it to improve my dancing. Heck, I cant even walk past a shopping display without checking my posture anymore! Anyone else identify with that one? lol

As a guy dancer you get so much attention without really doing ANYTHING (for good and for bad). It doesnt necessarily motivate you to improve your dancing or even hold any kind of standard to your work. I'm eternally grateful to my teachers for kicking my *AS and making me work at it.

I would say that the novelty of me being a male dancer gave me professional "status" within the first year I was dancing. But the quality of my dancing really reached professional standard about 5-6 years after I started dancing. That being countless hours of practice, frustration, brief happiness, grief, joy, irritation, fun, crying, soreness and shimmies. It's not really the amount of TIME that matters, it's the quality of the time spent and the experience taken from it. I think people can become professional quality dancers at age 6 and be fabulous, but this dance reflects more than just technique - it reflects experience in dance and in life... that doesnt come from just having great technique....although THAT can get you quite far too.

DaVid

Thanks David for sharing your story. I agree about your time explanation. I've been dancing for a while, but haven't had the quality time to input. I also agree that there's more than just technique.

I knew I wanted to be a pro dancer the first time I ever saw a belly dancer.

Since I first heard those zills, I wanted to give to people the excitement that I got watching my "first" dancer. It was so exciting, I decided after college, at age 28, that I would take belly dance lessons. From the moment I started lessons, I've eaten, breathed, and slept it.

So, I guess you could say the goal to be a professional entertainer has been there from the beginning.

Becoming a great dancer to me, is really more of a journey than a destination. And it is perpetual...alway striving to improve and become better and better at what I do.

Originally Posted by AnnaTX

Becoming a great dancer to me, is really more of a journey than a destination. And it is perpetual...alway striving to improve and become better and better at what I do.

This is EXACTLY what it's about.

Well said!
I don't thingk, maybe I'm wrong that even dancers with "that wow factor" (NOT me for sure!) think that about themselves really. I'm thinking that is a label others put on you. Just improving, always improving what you do is the aim!
Ahhh... I wish I had your youth! All those years to improve!!!! You sound as if you are the right path though... All dancers in any form I've ever met who question how to improve, am I good enough, and so forth usually get there!

I'm hoping so. The only problem is that I get into these BD phases and I go head-ho until I get burnt out or hurt myself. Then I get disgruntled and the whole process starts again. I don't want to work so hard it isn't fun anymore at the same time I feel lazy. No to mention this evil exam and work load.

It's been great hearing everybody's story. I at one tome trained to be a professional ballet dancer, then got injured and burned out, and took a break for about 5 years. That's when Bellydancing started. I'm just now getting to the point where I want to recapture some of the major flexibilty and agility I once had. It's amazing once you stop practicing for 3-6 hours a day how quickly you lose that "dancer's body;-)", not just muscles but the body awareness and understanding.

I agree with AnnaTX, in that I've never wanted anything less than my best and the most I could do for myself with dance. I deserve as much. But I still want to have fun. As far as "taking it to the next level", it's hard where I live to know where to begin, and involves quite a bit of risk. I've seen some "pros" in my town who do indeed get paid, but are much more improvisational and quite frankly lack the "wow" factor.

Also, I must mention, as this has been an issue for me, that as a dancer it seems (unless you are lucky enough to live in a town with tons of local opportunities)you must have a great deal of capital to get started. I've been invited to perform at some big weekend workshops and shows, which would be a great opportunity for me, but I'm also expected to foot the bill for travel, hotels, all the workshops, etc. Before you know it I'm shelling out 700 dollars which I don't have for the opportunity to dance.