Thread: Trying to identify my shimmy

I posted a thread asking how to do other movements (hip circles, fig 8's) while shimmying. Lauren suggested to first test your shimmy to see if you can bend forward while doing it. Interesting, But now it seems I can only do a straight legged Egyptian style shimmy while bending forward.

I may be over analyzing it, but how far should you bend forward to "test" your shimmy and secondly how on earth can anyone do a knee driven shimmy while bending forward without looking like a duck shaking off water?

(I am trying your method, Lauren of practicing moving in a slow circle while shimmying every hour and while I love the idea I feel I've taken two steps backward because now I have lost my shimmy!..cr.:)

Is my body going to figure this out eventually b/c now I don't eve know how to even do a decent shimmy-straight leg has always been more natrual to me .

Suggestions?

maybe the point is if you can't do your shimmy while bending forward, its a knee shimmy, if you can continue your shimmy while bending its a thigh shimmy?

I don't know what a thigh shimmy is. So far I've heard of knee driven, glute driven, and Egyptian/straight legged.

I thought mine was a straight legged, but now I am not so sure. Of course my knees bend (I never hyper extend them) but to get the desired speed I can't go as fast w/ a knee driven, Nonetheless, I am still at a block when trying to move my hips to different places (side, front, back) while shimmying. Still working on it....

I call the egyptian straight legged shimmy the thigh shimmy,sorry. Your shimmy sound like it not the egyptian or the knee shimmy, both you can do easily while bend over, more so then standing up right. Maye you should post a video of your shimmy while wearing something where we can see your legs.

No, sorry to sound unclear, above I'd said that while I can bend forward with each kind of shimmy, it doesn't look very great bending over while looking like a duck shaking. I can still shimmy in these positions (back forward, side etc) but the back position sort of loses the look of a shimmy when one is bent at the waist. (not sure how far to bend)

I think I'll get it. Today seems I have sort of found my shimmy again. I think I was practicing too much and my muscles rebelled yesterday. Still open to suggestions though ;)

When I bend over at the waist while doing the "hip socket" shimmy with the bent knee position, it turns into a most unattractive "ass ass ass" move and I cant keep it up to any sort of real shimmy speed.

I think Laurens post to you meant that it is very hard to layer a hip socket shimmy, and that a knee driven shimmy is much more condusive to layering. She was trying to help you identify which one you were doing.

..l;,..l;,..l;, I believe that there has been a slight misinterpretation. The excercise of bending over at the waist/hips while you shimmy should have your entire upper body dangling over (for one thing) removing all consideration of the upper body from working on the shimmy. Think of it like a very relaxed "touch the toes" stretch. It may indeed look like a duck shaking until you can finally relax enough with it to be comfortable (and may still look like a duck shaking even at that point). ..g.: The second thing (in my understanding of this exercise) is that this should be for simply working on the basic shimmy, not for any layering of any kind.

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

No, sorry to sound unclear, above I'd said that while I can bend forward with each kind of shimmy, it doesn't look very great bending over while looking like a duck shaking. I can still shimmy in these positions (back forward, side etc) but the back position sort of loses the look of a shimmy when one is bent at the waist. (not sure how far to bend)

I just have to say that now I can't shake the image of a shimmying duck, and it is really brightening my day. Thanks, ladies!

(Missed you, Miz Tedi! Consider yourself thoroughly hugged.)

Yes, what I meant was that in a purely leg-driven (Egyptian straightlegged or thigh driven) shimmy you can let your upper body dangle in a loose forward bend while your legs continue the motion. There would be VERY little movement in the upper body with a leg-driven shimmy.

I like this shimmy for layering over circles, undulations, and horizongal figure 8s because the torso muscles are free to create those movements while the legs create the shimmy.


If you're creating your shimmy from the obliques (waist muscles) or using muscles in or above the hips, then when you try to bend forward your upper body will shake like crazy. That shimmy is good for walking, but I find it very difficult to use for layering.

I absolutely think that working too hard and overthinking the shimmy can cause it to stall. Happens to me all the time, sometimes my shimmy will rebel for as much as a week, or I can only create one kind of shimmy for a while and the others go on strike.

Hope that's clearer!!!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Yes, what I meant was that in a purely leg-driven (Egyptian straightlegged or thigh driven) shimmy you can let your upper body dangle in a loose forward bend while your legs continue the motion. There would be VERY little movement in the upper body with a leg-driven shimmy.

I like this shimmy for layering over circles, undulations, and horizongal figure 8s because the torso muscles are free to create those movements while the legs create the shimmy.


If you're creating your shimmy from the obliques (waist muscles) or using muscles in or above the hips, then when you try to bend forward your upper body will shake like crazy. That shimmy is good for walking, but I find it very difficult to use for layering.

I absolutely think that working too hard and overthinking the shimmy can cause it to stall. Happens to me all the time, sometimes my shimmy will rebel for as much as a week, or I can only create one kind of shimmy for a while and the others go on strike.

Hope that's clearer!!!

OH Thank you Lauren. It's now clearer but let me make sure I've got this:

Bend at the waist as if touching your toes while shimmying to make sure you can still shimmy (I can bend at the waist and still do an Egyptian shimmy although the further down I bend the more the shimmy goes out of my hips and just my legs are still moving back and forth)

I notice that when I slide my hips to one side to hold for 8 counts I am fine, but then anytime I try to sneak my hips forward, my shimmy diminishes for those few beats, then once my hips are forward it's fine, It's as if the weight shift is what is throwing my body off. Like this:

Shimmying, straight legged for 8, then slide left to 9 o'clock shimmy still going strong for 8, then slide forward to 12 o'clock, but my shimmy peters out somewhere around 10 o'clock

If I go R-E-A-L-L-Y slow I can do a hip circle while shimmying. Should I stick with the slow method and work on speed or stick to the regular speed and the rough spots will work themselves out? I don't know, I've just read this post and I sound completely obsessive. It's just that I have bee trying to do this for months and am getting nowhere it seems..cr.:

Originally Posted by Zana

I just have to say that now I can't shake the image of a shimmying duck, and it is really brightening my day. Thanks, ladies!

(Missed you, Miz Tedi! Consider yourself thoroughly hugged.)

...and that is SO totally appropriate. ..g.:
Hiz ya Wiz which translates roughly to have the meaning "shake your groove thing", "shake what your momma gave ya"
literally means
"shake your (back end of a ) duck". ..l;,

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

If I go R-E-A-L-L-Y slow I can do a hip circle while shimmying. Should I stick with the slow method and work on speed or stick to the regular speed and the rough spots will work themselves out? I don't know, I've just read this post and I sound completely obsessive. It's just that I have bee trying to do this for months and am getting nowhere it seems..cr.:

I would go for practicing it slow and building up speed, glossing over your weak spots will become a bad habit and limit your range of movement while shimmying, your circles might end up passable, but if you found your body in one of the positions you gloss over (or a similar one) during another movement with a layered shimmy you will still be stuck with the problem.

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

OH Thank you Lauren. It's now clearer but let me make sure I've got this:

Bend at the waist as if touching your toes while shimmying to make sure you can still shimmy (I can bend at the waist and still do an Egyptian shimmy although the further down I bend the more the shimmy goes out of my hips and just my legs are still moving back and forth)

That sounds perfectly normal to me.

but my shimmy peters out somewhere around 10 o'clock

If I go R-E-A-L-L-Y slow I can do a hip circle while shimmying.

Yes, I'd keep practicing slowly. If I were you, I'd especially practice sliding through 10 o'clock, work that 9-11 area a lot. (or all four diagonal corners)

Remember that with any technique we want to practice it slowly until it's strong before we try to do it fast. I have students who tell me they can do the move fast but not slow, but invariably those students don't really have the technique down and don't want to spend time getting it. The fact that you're obsessing just means you care about having the proper technique, it's a good thing! good technique takes time and practice. Impatient students rarely acquire it.

Oh, you might also try a smaller circle?

and of course work with your live teacher, it's so much easier to be helpful in person!

Oh, and if you want a video to work on layering with, I HIGHLY recommend Zahra Zuhair's Advanced Dance Class.

Hey Hooked, thank you so much for your thread...it's helping me out alot as I've got exact same problem. Do you have a hard time maintaining your knee shimmy with upper body circles (I don't know what else to call them)? They're kind of like giant horizontal rib circles but the shoulders are following too. My shimmy totally dies when I do these. Do you have any advice?

I don't know if this is the same rib circle as yours but when I do ribcage circles I was taught that the shoulders don't move. Maybe you are talking about something totally different, but while I'm not great at it, I can do rib circles while shimmying. (slowly though) It just seems my brain won't compute to continue shimmying while distributing my weight.

By the way, now I don't know what kind of shimmy my "other one" is. I am certain what an Egyptian shimmy is but the other one I use I thought was a knee driven shimmy, but

How do you tell the difference betweed and knee driven and a glute driven?

I was first taught to start with hip bumps then smooth them out into a nice, relaxed shimmy while keeping the glutes tight.

THEN

I was watching an instructional dvd which told me to start with hip bumps and using the knees to keep it going just let your butt relax and wiggle around like jello. The only way I can relax my glutes is to completely use the knees to drive the shimmy. Maybe all three are distinct types. For me I can maintain the best posture (pelvis tucked) with a knee driven and Egyptian style shimmy.

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

How do you tell the difference betweed and knee driven and a glute driven?

I was first taught to start with hip bumps then smooth them out into a nice, relaxed shimmy while keeping the glutes tight.

THEN

I was watching an instructional dvd which told me to start with hip bumps and using the knees to keep it going just let your butt relax and wiggle around like jello. The only way I can relax my glutes is to completely use the knees to drive the shimmy. Maybe all three are distinct types. For me I can maintain the best posture (pelvis tucked) with a knee driven and Egyptian style shimmy.

What are "hip bumps" for you? do they go up? out or both?

I cannot see why anyone would keep the glutes tight while doing a shimmy - unless they are using them to drive the "shimmy". The look is just all wrong A shimmy should be a soft movement - with butt, thighs etc relaxed - you can do for a couple of hours. Moving with the glutes gives a small sharp vibration rather than a shimmy (in my opinion). I'd use it for texture - or to stop a shimmy but not by default.

The other way to drive your shimmy and relax your glutes is to use your lateral flexors - the "waist" muscles (the quadratus lumborum with the internal and external obliques). The knees still move but don't drive. This gives a far more controlled and soft look than using the knees - but takes longer to learn.

Okay Kashmir now you're getting into territory way over my head..l;,

I learned hip bumps to the side (as opposed to up and down) and then to soften the move. I just stood up and did it and I would say I am not clenching the glutes tight but just slightly, enough so I can tuck my pelvis under like when zipping up a pair of tight jeans.

I'm gonna say mine is a knee drivien. As soon as I get to class I will ask my teacher. My shimmy is still on strike and today I felt like a total novice all over again.

Must....push... through this....

the "waist" muscles (the quadratus lumborum with the internal and external obliques). The knees still move but don't drive. This gives a far more controlled and soft look than using the knees - but takes longer to learn.


I wish.......

I teach the hip-bump shimmy (hipbones rocking up and down, though, I don't teach a shimmy going to side to side).

It can actually be driven by the thighs or by the obliques/quadratus, usually both in some measure. I like the term 'piston' shimmy because it describes the action that defines the shimmy (hips alternately pumping up and down) without getting into which muscles are powering it. I've usually heard it called Turkish shimmy, piston shimmy, hip rock shimmy, or hip-driven shimmy.

there's a clear up-and-down movement of the hips in this shimmy. In the Egyptian (Raqia) shimmy, there's no up and down movement, the hipbones actually are moving slightly forward and back.

(Actually, lots of people do it with an up-and-down hip movement, and I've even seen it taught that way on youtube, but I prefer it the way Raqia teaches it, without the up/down).

Leyla Jouvana does a superb job breaking down the basic shimmies (and some not-so-basic ones) on her original 21 shimmies and 1001 variations DVD, I highly recommend it for those who are interested in the various shimmies.

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

Okay Kashmir now you're getting into territory way over my head..l;,

I learned hip bumps to the side (as opposed to up and down) and then to soften the move. I just stood up and did it and I would say I am not clenching the glutes tight but just slightly, enough so I can tuck my pelvis under like when zipping up a pair of tight jeans.

Yes, well it's hard enough in class - by the written word almost impossible!

Okay, I had heard of hip bumps - and they were to the side - so that was what was confusing me. Does your shimmy then go side-side rather than up/down? If so, this is yet another different kind of shimmy.

Originally Posted by kashmir

Yes, well it's hard enough in class - by the written word almost impossible!

Okay, I had heard of hip bumps - and they were to the side - so that was what was confusing me. Does your shimmy then go side-side rather than up/down? If so, this is yet another different kind of shimmy.

You know, I think my shimmy is the standard hip bump smoothed into a shimmy as Lauren describes below, the rocking up and down kind. I guess I was calling it side to side hip bumps because I wasn't actually drawing my hips up vertically like you do when you are doing a maya. But I just did it in the mirror and the hips to rock up and down more than side to side

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I teach the hip-bump shimmy (hipbones rocking up and down, though, I don't teach a shimmy going to side to side).

It can actually be driven by the thighs or by the obliques/quadratus, usually both in some measure. I like the term 'piston' shimmy because it describes the action that defines the shimmy (hips alternately pumping up and down) without getting into which muscles are powering it. I've usually heard it called Turkish shimmy, piston shimmy, hip rock shimmy, or hip-driven shimmy.

there's a clear up-and-down movement of the hips in this shimmy. In the Egyptian (Raqia) shimmy, there's no up and down movement, the hipbones actually are moving slightly forward and back.

Yes, I can see the difference Lauren My shimmy best resembles the piston shimmy that you teach, so I guess it's a knee driven???

So now that we've identified WHAT kind of shimmy I am doing (I love you guys, you are as obsessive about getting it right as I am!!)

This is the shimmy that leaves my pistoning hips and moves to my legs when I am bent all the way forward (using Lauren's test) at the waist. I guess I just wanted to know if this was normal. This is the shimmy I am using Lauren to practice moving in a slow hip circle. I am doing it every day about 10 times and I am still so sloooow!!!! (frustrating) I know I'll get it, but would someone please tell my hips and legs that it's okay to keep chugging away when my weight shifts?? Really legs, it's okay to keep going....

My own shimmy is having a really bad day, so I'm having trouble trying stuff out on my body right now.

When I do the piston shimmy with a hip circle, I'm also having 'muscle confusion' issues at 10:00 and 2:00. Seems as though I'm trying to use some of the same muscles to create the shimmy as the circle (around the top of hipbones and front of thighs).

When you bend forward and the shimmy drops into your legs -- THAT'S how the Egyptian shimmy is generated. If you can stand up and make that same leg motion, you've got it. I've found that the hardest thing for those of us who learned the piston shimmy first is to stop trying to make our hips move when we do it. It's so deeply ingrained 'shimmy=hips' that we can't soften them up and let them just go along for the ride as the thighs move. Usually people *think* they're not trying to move their hips, but I can see them moving up and down.

When I layer my shimmy over a hip circle, I think I use that Egyptian shimmy. I can't tell you 100% for sure at the moment, though, because my body won't cooperate to let me test things!!!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

When you bend forward and the shimmy drops into your legs -- THAT'S how the Egyptian shimmy is generated. If you can stand up and make that same leg motion, you've got it.

When I layer my shimmy over a hip circle, I think I use that Egyptian shimmy. I can't tell you 100% for sure at the moment, though, because my body won't cooperate to let me test things!!!

I can do the Egyptian shimmy easier than a piston shimmy, but the hip circle has to be done with a bended knee. NOt that I am totally locking my knees at all when doing an Egyptian, but they are straight legged. I can do hip circles easier w/ an Egtyptian shimmy but the movement is hardly perceptible. In other words, if you were doing just a hip circle, you couldn't do it with a straight leg , you have to bend to be able to circle your hips around, so wouldn't you almost have to do a piston shimmy to layer a hip circle or a fig 8 on top of it?

Hi, Not to try to push a product, but I created Authentic Bellydance, the DVD for this very reason. Layering is easier if you keep your shimmies coming from your glutes, this frees up your hips to figure 8. Knee shimmies are better for rib circles. Email me if you want! Shimmies/layering shimmies, etc., are my favorite part of bellydance! xoxox

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

I can do the Egyptian shimmy easier than a piston shimmy, but the hip circle has to be done with a bended knee. NOt that I am totally locking my knees at all when doing an Egyptian, but they are straight legged. I can do hip circles easier w/ an Egtyptian shimmy but the movement is hardly perceptible. In other words, if you were doing just a hip circle, you couldn't do it with a straight leg , you have to bend to be able to circle your hips around, so wouldn't you almost have to do a piston shimmy to layer a hip circle or a fig 8 on top of it?

I think Lauren suggested this once before, but just put your body in each "point" of the circle (like compass points) and do the shimmy. Try pushing the hips forward to NORTH and do the shimmy. Now push them to NORTHEAST and try it. etc.

You need to feel comfortable actually having your hips in each of those compass points and shimmying in those compass points. Some students actually find that it's not the shimmy that is troubling them, but rather having their hips in that Northeast point (or whichever compass point causes you problems.)

If it feels awkward to have your hips in that position, practice just pushing the hips to that position and stay there. Get past the awkward feeling before you layer the shimmy. Too many students don't get past the awkward stage and that's why they can do the movement fast (blurring through the awkward parts) but not slow.

I'm supposed to do a piston/hips shimmy layered on a hip circle in a choreo and I have problems with it too. Glad I'm not the only one!

Originally Posted by aziyade

If it feels awkward to have your hips in that position, practice just pushing the hips to that position and stay there. Get past the awkward feeling before you layer the shimmy. Too many students don't get past the awkward stage and that's why they can do the movement fast (blurring through the awkward parts) but not slow.

None of the positions feel awkward. (We've really drilled them in class) and I can do a sloooow shimmy in each of the points. It's just as if my brain will not take that next step: smoothing it all out and speeding it up a little.


I am still practicing though. It's one of my favorite movements on a dancer to watch. Why is it the moves I love are the hardest while the moves I feel so-so about (tummy flutters, head slides, and camels) I could do in my sleep? Thanks for the added suggestions.

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

None of the positions feel awkward. (We've really drilled them in class) and I can do a sloooow shimmy in each of the points. It's just as if my brain will not take that next step: smoothing it all out and speeding it up a little.

Yep, getting it into the midbrain is the hard bit - and as far as I know the only way is repetition. However, could you be using your legs to drive it? Pushing you leg up will move the hip but it is a gross movement that doesn't take to shimmy too well. Hard to check it out - but one way is to get into a pool deep enough to not be able to toich the bottom. Now, can you still shimmy?

Intrigued. Could you elaborate? I thought shimmies were driven from pumping the legs back, back, back, (in an Egyptian shimmy that is..) OR do you mean using my legs to drive the hip circle?