Thread: Arabic in class

well, both anadil's workshop, the fact that 15 people enrolled for it, and the suggestions people are making here, which go far beyond the scope of a one hour lesson, got me thinking.

do you think students would like it, if like a half hour lesson (half a lesson) or one hour lesson as part of a 10 week course would be dedicated to something like this: "arabic for bellydancers", with some explanation about different dialects, the "inshallah-mashallah" thing, and "words in songs"?

i sometimes run a "songs every bellydancers should know" themed course, and i'm thinking it could be slotted in there.

or should we keep this on a strictly workshop basis? i dont know. i'd love to learn some arabic myself, i know the students would like to know what songs mean and learn some holiday arabic. i dont have time to go and learn it at a language school, and i doubt the student's interest go that far, but i would love to somehow put it in our school curriculum on a more regular basis, especially since now (hurray) we have a teacher for it as well..

but it dont think an entire 10 week course would be doable? or would it?

any dance schools out there that offer lessons in arabic?

Artemisia

I you were to include it in the normal curriculum, I would take one hour of the 10-weeks/10 hours course to teach basic 'bellydance-arabic', starting at intermediate level.

If people want to learn more, then you could organise workshops. I think it would be nice if interested people could post of mail their questions (about lyrics, names, phrases, ...) prior to the workshop, so the teacher (in this case, me) can prepare accordingly.

x

in my experience, asking students "what do you want to learn"... usually doesnt work out...

but having an hour course as part of the lower or upper intermediate 10weeks.. hmm. i'm contemplating it.

still, thinking a system where it's outside of the normal lessons, all levels mixed might be better.

we'll see how this one goes, and then maybe we should try to organise it again...

At the risk of pointing out what the emperor is wearing, I'd have to say that making a serious offering of this topic is dependent on how many really hardcore dancers (committed to a full understanding of cultural authenticity) you know. My personal experience is that the "average" class/troupe dancer is simply not interested in putting in the time and brainpower to learn Arabic. There are dancers who really want to learn the whole package properly, and dancers who have serious aspirations of going to the Middle East to train and/or perform, and then there are the ones who think the primary reason to go to a workshop is to shop. That doesn't even begin to address the unwashed masses who can't understand why you would go to a workshop to study with a master teacher in the first place.

I have made two attempts to take Arabic classes myself (the first time a disorganized attempt with a native speaker/non-teacher, and the second time a vaudevillian farce to the tune of nearly $900 through a local university). I'm the wrong person to ask, because I'm one of the ones who's tried to teach herself Arabic out of lack of better options. However, when I tell other dancers I want to learn Arabic and ask them if they are interested, I typically get a remark about how bookishly smart I must be, followed by what I guess is the same look you'd get trying to pitch the advantages of sobriety to Amy Winehouse.

I don't understand why more dancers don't want to learn Arabic (or Turkish, if that is your style). These same dancers have no problem spending thousands of dollars on classes and costumes and music, but they're content to leave this piece of the puzzle out.

Any dancer who claims she wants to be authentic and then says, "Why would I want to learn Arabic? I've heard it's really difficult" ought to be bitchslapped, IMHO. How hard can it be if millions of Arabs manage to learn how to speak it? You don't have to learn it well enough to infiltrate al Qaeda to understand what Amr Diab is singing!

Hear, hear!!!!! I am also one of those "stuck without good options" people, and I'm doing the best I can to absorb what I can from my significant other. It pains me that I don't know more than I do; I feel it is one of my biggest shortcomings as a dancer. So I can not fathom why other supposedly serious dancers do not make any effort at this whatsoever.

I think the OP's ideas are commendable, but I agree, I have maybe 3-4 students who would even have a vague interest in an Arabic class.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

At the risk of pointing out what the emperor is wearing, I'd have to say that making a serious offering of this topic is dependent on how many really hardcore dancers (committed to a full understanding of cultural authenticity) you know. My personal experience is that the "average" class/troupe dancer is simply not interested in putting in the time and brainpower to learn Arabic. There are dancers who really want to learn the whole package properly, and dancers who have serious aspirations of going to the Middle East to train and/or perform, and then there are the ones who think the primary reason to go to a workshop is to shop. That doesn't even begin to address the unwashed masses who can't understand why you would go to a workshop to study with a master teacher in the first place.

I have made two attempts to take Arabic classes myself (the first time a disorganized attempt with a native speaker/non-teacher, and the second time a vaudevillian farce to the tune of nearly $900 through a local university). I'm the wrong person to ask, because I'm one of the ones who's tried to teach herself Arabic out of lack of better options. However, when I tell other dancers I want to learn Arabic and ask them if they are interested, I typically get a remark about how bookishly smart I must be, followed by what I guess is the same look you'd get trying to pitch the advantages of sobriety to Amy Winehouse.

I don't understand why more dancers don't want to learn Arabic (or Turkish, if that is your style). These same dancers have no problem spending thousands of dollars on classes and costumes and music, but they're content to leave this piece of the puzzle out.

Any dancer who claims she wants to be authentic and then says, "Why would I want to learn Arabic? I've heard it's really difficult" ought to be bitchslapped, IMHO. How hard can it be if millions of Arabs manage to learn how to speak it? You don't have to learn it well enough to infiltrate al Qaeda to understand what Amr Diab is singing!

Know bits and phrases, like please and thank you in Arabic. But I know them based on sound, i have no idea how you even write it. :-(

What I would love is a belly dance culture class: spend a month learning arabic language and music and culture, etc. Then the next month repeat with turkish customs and music and language. Do this for a variety of different dance areas.

I think it would be so much easier to understand the subtle differences if they were presented together as a package... and knowing that an egyptian pelvic tilt is called X and that a turkish one is called Y... and knowing enough of the language to understand why X and Y are so called.

how about an Arabic 'word of the week?' I used to do that at my old studio, where I had a big dry erase wall in the back room (where everyone changed/hung out). I'd put up a word, it's translation, and a couple of examples of it used in sentences.

I stopped doing it when I moved and lost 'the wall' but I suppose a dry erase marker in a corner of the mirror would work? You could put it up, talk about a little during warm up or cooldown?

Thinkin' I might do this....

Hi Guys,

I don't know if this helps, but I have, several occasions, been asked to come in to local classes/workshops and do an intensive Dancer's Arabic Course. As a matter of fact, I did one yesterday from 2-6. I was approached by a dancer friend of mine in 2007. She wanted to do the same thing you guys mentioned. I will say that this would not work so well in the beginner classes. Many beginners may not feel that fussed about learning Arabic.

I usually come in with a lesson plan that the teacher and I have discussed beforehand. We also allow time for questions/answers with the students.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. You could see if there are dancers with Native Level Arabic who can work with your students.

-Bella

Originally Posted by Lauren_

how about an Arabic 'word of the week?' I used to do that at my old studio, where I had a big dry erase wall in the back room (where everyone changed/hung out). I'd put up a word, it's translation, and a couple of examples of it used in sentences.

I stopped doing it when I moved and lost 'the wall' but I suppose a dry erase marker in a corner of the mirror would work? You could put it up, talk about a little during warm up or cooldown?

Thinkin' I might do this....

This is a WONDERFUL idea!

I've found that even just learning how to parse the letters of the Arabic alphabet opened up a lot more options for me. At least I don't have to stare at the CD and say, "I'm dancing to, uh, this one..." (flipping it over) "...by, er, this guy" anymore.

I can't translate most of the lyrics, but at least I can tell when I've found them so that someone else can translate them for me.

I do an Arabic word of the week too. I do not have a studio (cuz I teach at a community center) but I close the class with a word and make everyone say it.

I am quick to explain that the Arabic I am using is Egyptian.

I also try to teach words you would use as a dancer (for a gig perhaps)

Things like:
Thank you
NO Thank you
Tip
water
tea
etc...

It is fun!

When I'm teaching my weekly classes, I'll introduce song titles for the music I'm using and talk about what those song titles mean. Since I use the same songs every week, and repeat that information every week, after a bit of repetition it starts to sink in.

If a song contains a specific word or phrase that I think is worth noting (such as "imshee" in Boussi Ba'a) I'll tell the students in advance to listen for it, and to recognize what it means when they hear it.

This thread is making me think I might want to do a little more along those lines...

I think one benefit of doing this is that it shows students that our dance form is more than just a movement vocabulary - it connects the dots to the culture that spawned it. It also subtly indicates to beginners that even after they master hip drops and hip circles, there's still a lot more to learn.

The studio where I dance has just added an "Arabic for Dancers" course. It's really intended as a thorough intro to spoken Egyptian Arabic -- the only dancer-specific element is that we talk about song translations and gestures in addition to grammar, vocabulary, and usage. The cost and term (ten weeks of one-hour classes) are the same as the oriental and tribal technique classes, and the teacher is a native speaker and professional teacher of both Egyptian Arabic and Egyptian dance. Turnout is good -- mostly intermediate/advanced dancers and some faculty. I've been bugging the teacher to offer something like this for years, so I'm very pleased with the way it's turning out!

Since 2003 I've included a "phrase of the week" which goes on the door - in Arabic script, transliterated and the English translation. It has met with luke warm response (except from a visiting Lebanese teacher who was enchanted). I also introduce numbers when we start rhythms (using Nourhan Sharif's CD helps there) and any obvious phrases in songs we use.

All in all, I wouldn't say there was enough support in my student base to push the language any further.

The other things to consider is your own fluency and knowledge and the range of dialects. I initially tried to teach myself Arabic using a range Rosetta Stone (which was Saudi Arabic I think).

When I got a course at the University it was MSA - and after three (four?) semisters I could write, speak basic greetings, conjugate some verbs and write up my trip to Egypt (at about the level you'd expect from a vocab poor 7 year old in English).

A term with a native Egyptian speaker was a complete disaster - she could speak - yes - but not teach and spent much of the timing complaining about NZ society (which did teach me about Egyptian society)

So, in deciding I think you need to consider: How much can you realistically do in a half hour? What would you do? How good are you as an Arabic speaker? As a language teacher? How much interest is there?

Originally Posted by *Shira*

When I'm teaching my weekly classes, I'll introduce song titles for the music I'm using and talk about what those song titles mean. Since I use the same songs every week, and repeat that information every week, after a bit of repetition it starts to sink in.

If a song contains a specific word or phrase that I think is worth noting (such as "imshee" in Boussi Ba'a) I'll tell the students in advance to listen for it, and to recognize what it means when they hear it.
.

That is a great idea! I find learning with music easier ( like the annoying commercial jingles). Especially if it is music you repeat in each class!

well, at our tiny festival, no less than 15 people enrolled for anadils workshop, i had to turn a couple of people down..

i think there are more students than i would have thought that want to learn "some" arabic. they dont want to learn arabic like they've learned french or english, they dont want to learn how to write it, but they do want to playfully get a little bit of immersion, some words, song texts, tourist language, the numbers, etc...

in my intermediate class, we've been kind of making fun of how silly it is to sing along (i do myself when explaining the song) in an phonetic way, probably wrong pronounciation, and having NO idea what you are saying. you know, like the 'ketchup song'...

i pay attention in class to who is the singer, and what the title means, or even the lyrics in more detail if there is time, whenever i can. so you can control a little raising students interest in this too by how you as a teacher go about it. i do not think it only interests the pro's, or pro's to be, i think it will interest other students too, the hobbyists, if you manage instilling in them some liking for the music!

i dont know,this is the first time i've ever had a teacher at our school that CAN actually teach this, it''s never been an option before. so i kind of want to explore how we can all benefit from this..

i'll try offering this again in future, i'm just not sure yet in what form.

Artemisia

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

well, at our tiny festival, no less than 15 people enrolled for anadils workshop, i had to turn a couple of people down..

i think there are more students than i would have thought that want to learn "some" arabic. they dont want to learn arabic like they've learned french or english, they dont want to learn how to write it, but they do want to playfully get a little bit of immersion, some words, song texts, tourist language, the numbers, etc...

in my intermediate class, we've been kind of making fun of how silly it is to sing along (i do myself when explaining the song) in an phonetic way, probably wrong pronounciation, and having NO idea what you are saying. you know, like the 'ketchup song'...

i pay attention in class to who is the singer, and what the title means, or even the lyrics in more detail if there is time, whenever i can. so you can control a little raising students interest in this too by how you as a teacher go about it. i do not think it only interests the pro's, or pro's to be, i think it will interest other students too, the hobbyists, if you manage instilling in them some liking for the music!

i dont know,this is the first time i've ever had a teacher at our school that CAN actually teach this, it''s never been an option before. so i kind of want to explore how we can all benefit from this..

i'll try offering this again in future, i'm just not sure yet in what form.

Artemisia

Love some of the ideas about how to include Arabic in dance classes and am happy to hear about the new course in Arabic for dancers mentioned by Zana.

Like Artemisia, I believe that most dancers who are at all interested in learning Arabic don't want to learn the language in order to have conversations, only enough vocabulary and phrases to make it possible to pick up on what the song lyrics are in order to better interpret the music.

In September, at Desert Dance Festival in San Jose, CA, I taught a 1-hour workshop called "Habibi, you are my WHAT?!" in which I taught only a few words and phrases, along with some typical Arabic gestures associated with them, playing some popular dance songs for the students to practice listening for them. I'm going to teach an expanded 2-hour version with the same title and more words, phrases, gestures, dance movements on Feb. 1st in Milpitas. (see post in the Events secton)

On Michelle Joyce's "Secrets of the Stage 3", she included my teaching some of those same words, phrases, and gestures as a bonus chapter on Survival Arabic for Dancers.