Thread: Sucky arms

I know this has been covered a gazillion times and I also pretty much know how this can be fixed so I guess this is more of a rant than anything else

But please feel welcome to bring on new creative ideas on fixing arms that suck!

I was watching some videoclips of me dancing, one choreographed number and one improvisational number and it hit me that my arms probably always will suck big time ..cr.:

I cannot believe that after 15 years of dancing and being aware of this problem and actively working on it for probably the last 10 they still seem to....well...pretty much suck....

I´m happy with my posture, my feet, my hips. my shimmy (of course there´s always room for improvement) but the arms, well it feels like they are never going to be what I want.

I have worked the crazy flippy hand away, but my problems concerning the arms are more about energy and flow. My left seems to be quite OK, but the right is somewhat dead at times And also it looks like I don´t follow through with the movement so that it´s sometimes cut short, creating a sloppy and unpolished look.

When practicing I focus mostly on arms since I know it´s a problem area, and I feel comfortable with my arms and believe they look OK, but when I perform the nice arms just seems to vanish .w.:..c::

So any tips on specific arm training would be really welcome. I am planning on starting ballet training, just for arms and posture, but I don´t have time to make it to actual class, so this will be at home to DVD ( I know its not the best option, but time is limited with 2 small kids). Also I´m thinking about seeing a chiropractor again, to see that can help. My right arm is bothering me from time to time in my everyday life and maybe there is something blocking the energyflow making it harder for me to fix the problem while dancing.

And of course I fokus on my arms, always when training. But what else?

Rachel Brice has a great instructional video on arms which I found very helpful even though her dance style is extremely different than mine. It's not just about "what to do with your arms." It has a series of pretty intense exercises and stretches designed to improve the arms and shoulders. It's not for wimps! The first time I did it I discovered muscles I never knew I had and they protested quite a bit. But then repeated once every day or two, it got easier.
Rosette

i offer an arms dvd.includes arm and hand work while playing zills
P M me for bhuz discount.
Belly Dancing By Zamoras - Bellydancing Guild, Bellydance Classes, Videos, Links and Photos, Gypsy History and Music

I had arm problems, I think mostly due to nerves and because I focused so much on everything else. I second Cory's stuff, though I haven't seen that particular one; she is a great teacher. (Hi Cory!) She has you sit on the floor and do slow practicing with arms while wearing zills, which really worked out well for me.

Do you visualize the energy for your arm movements coming from the center of your back and flowing all the way down and out your finger tips?

Also, picture a spot on the back of each shoulder blade as the origin point when doing movements like snake arms, it helps the arms feel lighter.

When dancing in performance, make a mental note just before goin on to keep the energy flowing through your arms and out of your hands. Hands are such a big part of your emotional expression, let your hands be expressive. Keep your thumb close to your hand so it's not sticking out, tuck the thumb underneath a bit. Make "pretty hands and arms" a mantra before going out to perform and if you can think of it during the performance, so much the better. Think of the energy or emotion that you want your hands to express, like "I want my hand movements to be mesmerizing," or "I want my love of the dance to flow out of my finger tips and fill the dance space." It may sound strange to some, but mental images like that can really make a difference in performance.

Arms and hands are often the last piece of the dance puzzle to fall into place, so don't give up. Perhaps it is the energy flow thing that is not happening, if your energy is flowing outward from the center of your body to your hands and beyond, your arms should look pretty darn good most of the time.

My teacher just introduced a great arm drilling routine that I can already tell is having an effect on me. I have to admit, though I drill often I tend to not specifically drill my arms, and focusing on them for 15-20 minutes at a time is making me much more aware of them, not to mention building strength.

Another thing she is having me try is planning parts of the song (I do a loosely structured improv most of the time these days) where I do very simple hip movements so that I can focus completely on my arms and hands during that part. Our hope is that it will get me in the habit of being more aware of what my arms are doing.

Awareness is definitely my main problem - when I'm concentrating on my arms and have planned out exactly what they're going to be doing, they look quite nice. But if left to their own devices, they take on a life of their own more often than not.

Katja, you lie! Your arms do not suck. I've seen you dance and I know :)

However, there are a couple of things a dancer can do to fix arms:
1. stop thinking about "pretty arms" and think of what the arm is really doing instead.
2. get Lena to pick on you until you get it :)
3. think of the room being full of balls like the pic below. Now push your arm through the balls to create the movement you want. http://www.planetizen.com/files/u5174/rome-balls2.jpg
4. hang out with Italians, Middle Easterners or Indians and let their "talking arms" influence you.

Originally Posted by katja

I have worked the crazy flippy hand away, but my problems concerning the arms are more about energy and flow. My left seems to be quite OK, but the right is somewhat dead at times And also it looks like I don´t follow through with the movement so that it´s sometimes cut short, creating a sloppy and unpolished look.

So any tips on specific arm training would be really welcome.

I recently added a new article to my web site titled "Expressive Arms". You can find it here: Belly Dancing: How to Do Belly Dance Moves

I had the same problem when I was doing ballet and lyrical, and to correct it my teacher made me choreograph and perform a dance that mainly focused on the arms and hands. At the time (I was an angsty teen) I thought it was dumb, but it was the only thing that finally gave me some arm awareness when I was performing.

The only thing I can add. Change your thoughts. If you believe that they will always suck...

Then that is what will happen. We manifest change by positive or negative opinion about our selves. So start a daily mantra that I have beautiful and graceful arms.....

One of my greatest character flaws is stinkin thinkin and being to hard and critical of my dancing. It is a flaw that I'm working on daily. Stopping the negative..... and developing positive attitude.

It is working and I see the change in my dancing.

try looking outside of bd for inspiration. like flamenco for example. different arms but the same energy throughout since limp arms in flamenco are not any better than limp arms in bd. or any other dance that i can think of lol looking at how the arms are and practicing them within the context of that dance (either through dvds or classes) might help u get a different perspective of how to focus on them in bd. make sense?

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

The only thing I can add. Change your thoughts. If you believe that they will always suck...

Then that is what will happen. We manifest change by positive or negative opinion about our selves. So start a daily mantra that I have beautiful and graceful arms.....

One of my greatest character flaws is stinkin thinkin and being to hard and critical of my dancing. It is a flaw that I'm working on daily. Stopping the negative..... and developing positive attitude.

It is working and I see the change in my dancing.

True. What's in the mind will come out in the dance. Free your mind and you will free your dance.

Tamalyn Dallal was here last weekend and one thing she said really helped me with my performance on Fri. - not specifically arms, but still relevant. She was asked by a radio interviewer if she had learned anything about belly dancing, after 30+ years as a professional dancer, when she danced with women in their homes in Egypt, Jordan, and elsewhere as part of her research for her latest book. Her reply helped free my mind, because I constantly worry about whether my technique is "good enough." She said and I am paraphrasing, "Yes, I did learn a lot. I learned that the dance is not so much about the technique. It's about working with the energies, creating energy, sending it out, and drawing energy from the earth." As soon as I heard her say that, I decided to focus on the energies during my dance and not worry so much about technique. My performance experience was really extraordinary, and I got tons of compliments from audience members. People said it was the best dance they have ever seen me do.

Edited to add: At the risk of sounding "woo-woo" and antagonizing the skeptics, check out the photos from that show here: dunyah's Photo Album - tribe.net
I've never had anything like these orbs show up in my dance photos before. There's a thread on paranormal orbs here: http://www.bhuz.com/forum/off-topic/...rmal-orbs.html

Okay, back to topic.

Thank you all! And thank you David, you are a sweet heart.

Thank you from lifting me up from my negative thinking and getting me all inspired on working some more on my arms and hands.

You guys rock! You all have said just the right things to get me on track and feeling exited about my arms. Bhuzzers are the best!

urgh I have sucky arms as well :s they seem to live a life on their own...

The only advice I can give, as a person who also has somewhat sucky arms, is add them early. My key problem is that when I create dances, I am mostly focused on the body and my arms are just there, held, or responding in an unexciting sort of way. So if you are creating a dance, the very second you *start* to get the bodywork happening in a way that tells you you're going to get it good eventually, think now about adding some arms that compliment the bodywork. That way you will hopefully train yourself into *doing* the arms instead of just floundering with them like I do.

I did ballet as a child and my arms are quite long, so I can make very nice shapes with my arms when I want to. I can stop and do nice arm work without much body work. But I'm still working on making them look organically beautiful rather than stuck on when I'm actually moving around.

Zumarrad, how I recognice myself in that! But I, as you have started to adding them early when choreographing.

I also believe that one thing that is holding me back is that I am also a troupedancer, arms tend to be simplet and more stylisized (sp) when doing group stuff.

Also I teach mostly beginners and sometimes continuers and creating stuff for them I need to keep arms nice and simple.

I am overflexible in arms, shoulders, and hands so I should be able to do really nice arms some day;)

My arms drive me crazy too!! And they are my number one pet peeve when I am teaching my students--they know I am a stickler for arms.

Here's something I've been working with that seems to help: In my classes (that I teach) I end the lesson with "10-minute arms"--it's just 10 straight minutes of music and it's PURE arms--shoulder hits, rolls, snake arms, hand and finger movements, hip framing, basically a combination of all the arms movements and poses one might do in a dance--it's strictly a drill so I don't worry about the hips or feet--just focus on keeping the arms active for 10 straight minutes--VERY difficult. But I've noticed that now my arms are more likely to "default" into more graceful positions during unstructured or improvisational dancing.

My students gripe because it's a challenging exercise, but after a few months, they actually BEG for it ,r:;

Hope this helps,
aliki

Originally Posted by aliki69

My arms drive me crazy too!! And they are my number one pet peeve when I am teaching my students--they know I am a stickler for arms.

Here's something I've been working with that seems to help: In my classes (that I teach) I end the lesson with "10-minute arms"--it's just 10 straight minutes of music and it's PURE arms--shoulder hits, rolls, snake arms, hand and finger movements, hip framing, basically a combination of all the arms movements and poses one might do in a dance--it's strictly a drill so I don't worry about the hips or feet--just focus on keeping the arms active for 10 straight minutes--VERY difficult. But I've noticed that now my arms are more likely to "default" into more graceful positions during unstructured or improvisational dancing.

My students gripe because it's a challenging exercise, but after a few months, they actually BEG for it ,r:;

Hope this helps,
aliki

I do a lot of arms with my students also, simply cause I feel that they are so important to get on the wagon from day one. So I will continue and do even more arms with them *muahahhaahaaa* They are goin to hate me now and thank me later;)

get Katia's or Fahtiem's dvd ...cant remember the names now, but ive heard they are excellent

I like Cory Zamora's DVD for arms as well, has the movements with and without zills.

Also (this isn't regarding technique or style), but when doing a regular (gym-type) workout, if you spend some time working your arms (doing "flys" for example) with whatever light free weights are comfortable for you (2-5 lbs. are good for me), the fact that your arms will become stronger will help eliminate stamina issues that can distract you from the flow of the movement you want to achieve. This may not be an issue for everyone, but it was for me at first, and I found that working the arms a bit created a surprising feeling of lightness in the arms, which helps.

Devora

For me, I noticed a big difference once I started doing free weights. My upper body strength has never been great, and I never thought of it as a problem in my dancing. But really we use our arms, chest, shoulders and back a lot! Incorporating strength training has given me a little more power and stamina in those muscles, and they help hold me in a proper dance posture.

So my suggestion is to do port de bras and other exercises suggested here, but also incorporate strength training.

I have spent whole nights dancing with only my arms and recording it to view later. Videotaping my practice sessions has helped every aspect of my dance!

*edited to add* Looks like Devora beat me to it! Sorry I didn't read your post before I started :P

I think I do have quite good upper body strength, I know I don´t get as tired as a lot of my dance mates when doing arms. I try to fit in upper body strenght weight training at home.

I'm glad you asked this. My arms aren't that great either. Most of my problem, I think, stems from the lack of flexibility in my shoulders. I can't do snake arms at all or I'll end up out of commission for a week with a sore shoulder.

I find that I learn best by watching - and I have been working on making my arms prettier too. Does someone have some youtube links of performers who have really good arms? That way, I can see what makes them look good, and learn from that.

bless you both, devora and brea.wow, thats 2 acts of kindness on this board!

spend some time in a heated pool, water is the perfect resistance and if you bend your knees deep enough so you are a head above the water, you have full range of your arms..it's fun

great advice everybody! Arms are a problem area for me as well. This will mostly amen what has already been said but the things that have helped my arms the most so far have been:

a) weight training

b) practicing arms specifically connected to particular dance movements and combinations, so they get trained into certain patterns

c) practicing along with performance videos of dancers whose arms I really like

d) being aware of my arm placement when I'm teaching my classes and reminding my students where to put their arms

e) reminding myself to always have energy and intention in my arms extending all the way to my finger tips

f) allowing myself to completely finish one thing before I move onto the next

g) spend time thinking about and practicing the spaces in between how my arms transitions from place to place between movements and combinations


good luck with your arms! I hope you will be happier with them soon.

<3