Thread: Would like input/opinion on how to handle a students possibly controversal request?

I recently received an email fom one of my students after class, and I would love some input and opinions on how you would handle this situation? (warning--long subject)

Below is the excerpt form her email (student is not a bhuzzer) so that
you can clearly understand what she's asking:
_______________________________
"Would/could you consider somehow bringing up the matter of our dancers perfuming, hairspraying etc with synthetic fragrances ?? there are several of us who have reactions to these increasingly diverse products & have a hard time breathing when in contact with so many products at once. maybe they can cut out the perfumes during performances (and practices) & use fragrance free products. my latest problem is dryer sheets, they are potent things! now they have new ones that emit their "fragrances" all day long!! they are god-awefully painful.

anyway if you could use your influence & figure out the best way to start the ball rolling to make folks aware, us old folks would really appreciate it.
Let me know your thoughts, i just wanted to get this out there. THANKS for listening"

CONTINUED BELOW...........

It's not that I am not sympathetic to her request, but it is of course a sensitive subject and could be difficult to handle.

Here is a follow-up email that she sent:
"It's been difficult for me to open up at work and ask people not to wear synthetic fragrances. they were really good for a while but after the holidays the gift perfumes must have made them forget.

I don't think people are aware of what they're buying. the probably don't even KNOW that the products they use are all clashing on them!
Hair sprays, static guard sprays etc get into the air & stay there for long periods & think about it, they pollute the air space!

When you go for walks, take note of the dryer sheet smells polluting the air space outside the peoples' homes.
...if only to plant seeds in people's minds so they can be aware of the discomfort they are causing to others. Inherantly people do not want to be the cause of others suffering. I feel for asthmatics.

yeah, these things didn't bother me at all, and i used every product in the market, til at age 45 things started going wrong... over the last 10 yrs, i've gotten many allergy issues under control. However, with increasing "NEW" scents they're coming up with, the problem just continues & does become more painful. I guess i am becoming concerned about lung issues and may just have to stop my activities.

but again, people don't realize that their "mystery" ailments may very well be do to their toxic overload. i am convinced that cancers are caused by these products loaded with chemicals we breathe in, slather on spray on, clean with & injest.

I think with this "green" movement, folks may be more receptive to the idea to stop & take a look at what they're doing. or not. or whatever. it is frustrating.

i'm not asking you to forbid anything, just in your subtle way plant the seeds for thought in our dancing community if you can. I appreciate your concern for me, but I also worry about the folks who may end up like me because they just don't realize what they're doing.

there are essential oils, fragrance-free products that are out there if people only read labels. oh well, it took me a long time to read labels, so i know the difficulty here."
YES, MORE BELOW----sorry!

(last part, I promise)

I myself have some allergies, as well as my honey being asthmatic, but
I know that this can open a whole can of worms if brought up in classes.
I completely understand her concerns, but I just don't know that my park district classes would an appropriate place to bring out a soapbox and begin
a "green movement".......
don't take that as I don't care, but we all know that having controversial
conversations are often best avoided in a classroom setting that you are
holding under someone else's employ. Call me chicken, but I know as a
former student in that type of class I sure didn't want to go to my dance class and feel like I have someone lecturing me over something I may not share their feelings about. (...not to mention I of course would have to check that it was okay to say anything)


I have some ideas in my head of what to say....but I want to hear everyone's
take on it......tell me what you would do, tell me how you would react
if it was brought up in a class you are taking........

Thanks!!!!

Sorry, so long!

why is she asking you to talk to the class?
i guess it's cos you're the figure of authority there, but wouldn't it be more logical for her to do so?

wow, this is tough........

but while this lady sounds a little militant (likely not as 'sensitive' as she tries to lead), there ARE people who are SEVERELY allergic to synthetic scents, or, more accurately, components used to bring out these scents.....

it would be helpful to THOSE people to have a conversation, or even a handout...............if you work out of a studio, you can approach it with them too, as i'm certain they also get similar complaints.....

if you bring it up....make it as general as possible "there have been concerns raised by folks using the studio with sensitivities.....'.....make suggestions, etc

i'm a little suspect of the whole 'dryer sheets' issue....it's a little extreme to ask people to stop using them.....same scents are used in liquid softeners......it sounds like this lady may truly be very scent sensitive, and green militant (i'm getting green myself, but i'm not militant about it), so may be using this as her personal soapbox, but i'm sure a compromise can be reached in a general way, mostly to assist others who may TRULY be sensitive/allergic to artificial scents and propellants

I would respond nicely, express sympathy for her problem, and, if you feel you can do so without being insincere, say that you'll keep this in mind should this issue surface.

If it is not a cause you feel strongly about, I don't think you have an obligation to make it yours. And, as a student, if I take a dance class, I have no interest in being lectured on environmentalism or other choices in my life (e.g., we have a dancer in town who is so passionate about veganism that she interweaves it with dance, that doesn't line up with my view of the world, even though I greatly support the choice) - I want to learn about dance in dance class. When everybody goes to coffee after class, that's a fabulous opportunity to discuss such issues.

It's teacher's place to say what goes on in class.
Some will say she has made a reasonable comment but a very involved one. Others will say she has a convoluted hobby horse to beat. I think you'll have to go for the clear and practical approach. When you do our usual "safety speil" to the class, add in about not using spray perfumes/deodorants just before or during class, in changing rooms and toilets etc for the benefit of astmatics(like myself!) and those with allergies.

I agree. I think you should be sympathetic but I would not necessarily start asking everyone else to change their behavior. While I agree that it can be overpowering if someone is wearing a lot of perfume, I think asking people not to use dryer sheets is over the top. If her allergies are really that bad then she should modify her behavior and not expect everyone to change to please her.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

It's teacher's place to say what goes on in class.
Some will say she has made a reasonable comment but a very involved one. Others will say she has a convoluted hobby horse to beat. I think you'll have to go for the clear and practical approach. When you do our usual "safety speil" to the class, add in about not using spray perfumes/deodorants just before or during class, in changing rooms and toilets etc for the benefit of astmatics(like myself!) and those with allergies.

I like your way of thinking------the first email seemed a reasonable request,
the 2nd was the one that got me thinking.

I want to hear more please!!!!

I'm asthmatic, so I can totally sympathise with her mind set regarding strong scents in class and the use of sprays in the changing room. Hairspray propellents set me off, and I mean really badly. Personally, I'd put the request in the nicest way possible to the class and ask them to honour no strong sprays /perfumes just for class and for the benefit of the asthmatics. As for the 'green issue', that's not my place to push this on anyone else. That's personal choice and responsiblity.

There's no easy way to deal with this. I hate to sound mean but it's really her problem and not everyone else's. She basically expects everyone in her various environments to change their personal grooming habits to accomodate her allergies.

Perhaps she needs to speak to her allergist about possible medications she could take to alleviate her allergy symptoms, but pretty much demanding that people not come into the workplace, dance class or anyother public place wearing scented products is a bit ridiculous.

It's really not her place to ask you to ask students to alter their personal products of preference to suit her. And for her to go on the way she did is a bit silly. She reminds me of one of those pretentious, self-righteous vegetarians who makes a scene with the waitstaff whenever they go into a restaurant. LOL

I'm sorry but her email was a bit funny to me.

I can see what a tough position you're finding yourself in.

I agree with Saheli -- she's asking that the vast majority of the students in class change a large number of behaviors --everything from deoderant to hairstyling to laundry to perfume -- to accommodate her special needs.

In a small tight-knit group where a great bond has been established that MIGHT be reasonable. "Betty's allergies are getting worse and she won't be able to continue to come to class unless we can make this a fragrance-free environment, let's put that to a vote" works with a small group who have grown to love Betty and would miss her -- if no new members will be coming along. In a larger, newer or more pliable group people would think Betty's a demanding complainer and you are playing favorites on her behalf.

Otherwise, I like Liza's idea of making fragrance and sprays part of a general class safety announcement. 'Don't overdo it, we're all exercising in a small closed space and some people are sensitive.'

I think it would be perfectly reasonable to ask people not to spray scents in the studio, directly before class. This has been a policy at many studios I have been to.

However, it's not reasonable to ask people not to use dryer sheets, etc....

me personally i would ignore it.

your class, your power & yes it will open a can of worms.

maybe i've been teaching too long & am a wee tired but i just wouldn't bother with this.

tinah

ha ha ha , in the early 80's, i worked at "ARMENS" in costa mesa.the house dancer wore "rev cosh.".sp..as with "opium", and many others, i got sick every friday and sat night.she was nice too, nadia, from "veils and incense", sandy snow.....but i had to quit.i had to be so medicated, it wasnt worth it.
as a teacvher/coach, i have had clients wear sents tha turned my gut....it is hard.

I think I would probably look for another class if my instructor asked me to change my laundry routine, personal grooming behavior and basically every product I purchase. I think this is an unreasonable request--not to mention her second e-mail sounds like she wants you to change the world, not just your class!

I've had a few unreasonable requests from students before--one asking me to completely change my class schedule to accommodate her (But can't you change this class to Monday nights instead? But can't you just teach one more class during the week? Er, no, I have a full time job, I'm a grad students and, you know, I have a life!) and another asking me to change the format of my class in the middle of a session because she didn't like learning choreography (never mind that the class was ADVERTISED as including choreography). You can't please everyone all the time, and you have to do what you think is right.

I would probably ask the class if they would please refrain from spraying scented products in the studio/studio restrooms because some concerns have been brought up about sensitivity to scents. I *might* request (and note that it is only a request) that students consider not wearing perfume to class or at least not spraying it on immediately before class. And I'd leave it at that. I'd explain to the student what I planned to say to the class, let her know that I'm doing this as a courtesy to her, but make it very clear that I cannot and will not try to change the personal behaviors of the other students.

When my son was a newborn I asked his heavy perfume / cologne wearing grandparents and great grandparents to ease up if they were coming to visit him. They did - for about a week. I hate the smell of most perfumes, but I realized that it's not my place to ask others to change their habits and products. Instead the kid got dunked in the bath once relatives left.

Seriously - I go to dance class from work. If you think I'm going to change the products I'm using to accommodate someone who is "sensitive" - and in my mind this means not even allergic, but who simply doesn't like the smell - you've got another think coming. Unless she has REAL allergies - like, with a note from a doctor about a life-threatening allergy - I would not mention this. Scent or lack thereof is a personal preference, and unless you've gotten complaints from multiple students about someone who is marinating in their perfume I would let it go.

A similar issue did come up in one of the classes I attend several years ago - one of the students consistently did not wear deodorant, and several students complained to the teacher about the smell of BO. The teacher finally gave a talk about appropriate costuming for dance class, which INCLUDES deodorant. But again, this was a persistent problem that was bothering much of the class...not just one person with "sensitivities."

I've been in dance classes before where this was requested (a blurb in the syllabus about no scents becuse some people may be sensitive), and it never offended me. In fact at my university, it is still part of the policy in the dance major that student are not allowed to wear scented products (nor dangling jewelry, street shoes, if you are late after 10 minutes, door is locked so tyou can't get in, etc etc. there is a whole list of protocol)

so, from a student's perspective it might not be such a big deal to mention it. I don't really remember anybody in the class being angry about it.

I don't know how effective the request would be over the long haul though because I think given human nature, that most people may take note of the request at the beginning and then just kind of forget it later on as the course wore on.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

When you do our usual "safety speil" to the class, add in about not using spray perfumes/deodorants just before or during class, in changing rooms and toilets etc for the benefit of astmatics(like myself!) and those with allergies.

I agree with Liza's suggestion, and I don't think this type of policy is at all unreasonable. Many workplaces, gyms, schools, and other public environments have scent-free policies these days due to the increasing prevalence of allergies, so I expect that most of your students would be familiar with these issues already. I wouldn't repeat her comments about choosing green products, but, to be honest, I didn't interpret from her message that she wanted you to -- she seemed rather to be explaining and defending her own sensitivity to scents.

YMMV, of course, depending on how environmental allergy issues are dealt with by and large in your area. In Canada, it's now standard to see painted lines around the entrances to public buildings within which you're not allowed to smoke, and peanut butter was banned from every school I ever attended. I was shocked when I moved to CT and they served peanuts on the plane on the way down! I hadn't seen a peanut on an airplane in at least a decade.

It's the perspective that a person who can't do anything about their medical condition shouldn't be put at risk because of behaviours that other people can easily abstain from vs. the perspective that people shouldn't have to change their behaviours just because they may be putting one person at risk. When it's a matter of life or death for some as opposed to preference for others, in my opinion there's no contest.

The fact that she is OK with essential oils makes me think that most of the rest of this is just her own "green" personal crusade. Seriously...if she's OK with patchouli, that makes me skeptical about her whole premise.

I think asking people not to apply fragrance or aerosal (sp?) products right before class is appropriate, but I wouldn't touch the fabric softener, fragranced deodorant etc. with a 10 foot pole.

As for hair spray...people have lives, they are coming to class after work, and for most people "business hair" is part of the dress code. You can't reasonably ask your client base to give up their hairstyles.

If it comes up again after the "extreme fragrance" talk (if you even decide to go that far with the class), I'd let the student know that you can't accommodate her special needs in class, but that you'd be willing to teach her in her home for x rate (modified upward from your normal rate by the cost to maintain a separate wardrobe/extra grooming time to prepare for her private class).

As others have mentioned, many dance studios of all kinds have protocols that include wearing deodorant, abstaining from perfume in class and performance, no gum chewing, class attire and such. It's normal. It's also something to be brought up at the first class or, if classes are ongoing, mentioned when a new person joins the class.

Probably the easiest, least "hammering" way to do it is to include all class protocols on a handout that is then verbally gone over quickly in class. Then, when a rule is broken, it's (relatively) easy to bring the infraction to the offending students attention.

Good luck!

Deborah

If I recall correctly, our teacher mentions scent-issues in the syllabus and in the performer's agreement.

I'm also in a choir and we do request that singers refrain from using perfumes/hairsprays/Axe deodorant (OMG that stuff can kill at 20 paces) for concerts, and as much as possible in rehearsal (we know people are coming from work so it's harder).

I don't think it's a huge deal to bring up in class or performances, as long as it's not a militant issue. The people who are bothered may also be able to change their location (stand in the back or front...away from the worst offender).

As for recitals - I have asked people to spray outside so no one has to walk through a cloud of whatever scent is being sprayed.

I agree with most people I think, that a "No perfume" policy is completely reasonable but that expanding it to an environmental issue is not your obligation at all. I have taken many classes where they asked to not use perfume. When you exercise you get warmer and that activates the scent and makes it stronger. Smokers nowadays often have to respect the wish of non-smokers. This is kinda the same thing.

Originally Posted by gisela

When you exercise you get warmer and that activates the scent and makes it stronger.

yes, that is the same logic I was told of when informed of this rule. So essential oils were also banned, because they can get especially strong as the body warms up. I think it wasn't because of any environmental issues and didn't have to do with chemicals per se, as much as odor!. is there a smiley face for odor? if not, there ought to be ..l;,!

I think perfumes also have a tendency to have a bad scent if they react with sweat. It's not just stronger, but it's not pleasant

Originally Posted by lotus

is there a smiley face for odor? if not, there ought to be ..l;,!

Too funny!! I agree, we need to find one!

You have all been wonderful and giving me just what I wanted!!
Like I said previously, her first email seemed like a more normal
request, but the 2nd email seemed to be a bit much for something
to bring up in class.......

You've all pretty much brought up the things I was thinking.....and I can understand severe allergies or asthma, and perhaps kindly requesting people
be courteous in their use......but I don't feel that you can ask the world
to change because of your issues and/or beliefs, and not try to change the world in class.

I doubt too many people would be offended if I asked them to be courteous,
but no one would be too thrilled to listen to a dissertation of the harm that dryer sheets may be causing...not what they are paying for when they come
to bellydance class and not what I'm there for....

When I got the first email I felt bad for her that she may be stuck in a corner
with an "overuser" we've all been there at some point I'm sure. But the
2nd email made me feel a bit like she was trying to use me to promote her causes, because she is a longtime student and she figured I may be sympathetic.....and now I feel awkward.

I think she may have been using the allergy excuse to champion her cause... I don't think you should feel awkward; people like that are kind of annoying (IMO, even though I agree with living a green life, she's coming off a bit self-righteous).

Originally Posted by saheli

There's no easy way to deal with this. I hate to sound mean but it's really her problem and not everyone else's. She basically expects everyone in her various environments to change their personal grooming habits to accomodate her allergies.

Perhaps she needs to speak to her allergist about possible medications she could take to alleviate her allergy symptoms, but pretty much demanding that people not come into the workplace, dance class or anyother public place wearing scented products is a bit ridiculous.

It's really not her place to ask you to ask students to alter their personal products of preference to suit her. And for her to go on the way she did is a bit silly. She reminds me of one of those pretentious, self-righteous vegetarians who makes a scene with the waitstaff whenever they go into a restaurant. LOL

I'm sorry but her email was a bit funny to me.

I agree and while I don't have a problem with a teacher making a general request about strong perfume there's the question of what to do about those people that don't comply....she's going to expect you to be the ongoing "fragrance cop"!

~~Kimahri

The first email was pretty reasonable. The second one set off some alarm bells for me. If it were me, I would probably address it sincerely but also somewhat lightly, because it seems like she's soapboxing big time and wants to pull you up there beside her. I'd set some boundries on that possible expectation immediately.

I'd probably just write back, "I can make an announcement in class and ask everyone to be mindful of others who may be sensitive/allergic to fragrances. But I'm afraid trying to police that sort of thing is really beyond the scope of my teaching responsibilities and influence. As long as everyone is following the rules laid out by the park and recreation department, I'm limited in how I can control the actions of adult students in my classes."

I like da Sage's idea about suggesting privates, if the scents are too much for her.

One of the problems with scents is that when the body warms, people perspire, the air becomes humid and the scents are intensified. For someone who is sensitive to scents or allergic to scents or certain products, these can be uncomfortable and even dangerous. I inadvertantly sent a fellow dancer to the emergency room after wearing patchouli essential oil to class one night. One day at work the hazmat people were called in and everyone sent home when a co-worked used too much air freshener in her office trying to cover up the odor of burnt popcorn. The scent got in the air system and sent some people to the clinic.

There are a lot of scent free options out there for anti-perspirant, laundry detergent, moisturizing lotion. Simply asking that students not wear heavy perfumes in class should not be a difficult thing to do. I've taught dog obedience classes for years and it has always been a normal thing to ask students not to drink, smoke, or use perfumes before coming to class because of the effect of those smells on the dogs.

I don't think it is an unreasonable request.

Souzan