Thread: Dancing with zills

Ok, this is my first post, I hope I am not repeating this question.

I would like to improve my zilling skills so I can actually perfom/dance with zills. I have looked at some instructional material (Zills with Ansuya, Zill CD with Jamila Salimpour,..) and I can practice zill patterns and I can (more or less) dance using simple patterns. I do know what pattern goes with a balady BUT

The serious doubt I have - what zill pattern goes with what music/rythm? Am I free to totally invent or are there some kind of rules or fixed pattern for certain rythms? ..c::

I am also interested in any further recommendations on instructional material on zills (I read something about zills on fire in another thread).
Advices are always welcome too ..g.:

thanks!

Originally Posted by natalie_bax

The serious doubt I have - what zill pattern goes with what music/rythm? Am I free to totally invent or are there some kind of rules or fixed pattern for certain rythms? ..c::

You do need to follow the basic rhythm of the music, ofcourse, but you can always syncopate and play around within those rhythms. Playing zills, you become a musician, so as long as you're not playing loudly over quiet parts or doing something that doesn't fit in the with rhythm, my philosophy is you play whatever works musically. You can even layer rhythms if they fit into the timing ... chiftelli or balady over 2/4, for example. You need to have a good ear and sense of what is appropriate in order to do it successfully, but it can work.

I will change around rhythms during fast numbers sometimes just to keep my fingers from getting too tired ... like during a karsilama I might change to runs (one, two, one, two) or alter the sequence of the rhythm (instead of tek, teka tek, teka tek, teka tek tek tek, .... I might start going teka tek, teka tek, teka tek, tek tek tek .....or tek, rlrlrlr, tek tek). During a chiftetelli I often leave out the main rhythm altogether and just add a "tring" during the space ..... dum, dum dum, dum dum, dum, dum, dum ...."tring".... etc. and so on. Just a few examples.

The main thing is staying on time with the music. Off time zills are horrible.

Originally Posted by natalie_bax

The serious doubt I have - what zill pattern goes with what music/rythm? Am I free to totally invent or are there some kind of rules or fixed pattern for certain rythms? ..c:: !

There is no specifically 'right' zill pattern(s) for specific rhythms. There are a few patterns that are widely recognized, or widely taught, to go with certain rhythms, but they're certainly not the only correct ones.

It's useful to learn what others have done before, just so you're not 'reinventing the wheel' and making things unnecesarily hard on yourself. But it's not necessary. If you're musically inclined and feel sure that your zill playing 'goes' with the music, rather than against it, then have at it!

I am also interested in any further recommendations on instructional material on zills (I read something about zills on fire in another thread).

I found it most useful to learn to bang out the basic rhythms, in several variations, on a dumbek (or coffee can, in my earliest days). For that, I used 'Uncle Mafufo's 25 rhythms' which is still a fave but doesn't address zills specifically.

Solace's 'rhythm of the dance' CD has drum and zill notation in the liner notes. Their variations on some of the rhythms were quite different, but they had nice long, slow practice tracks and it really helped me.

For fancier playing, with clicks & clacks & rings, I like Mimi Spencer's book & CD set (available at Maqam.com)

Advices are always welcome too

Don't play sitting in one spot too long, or it becomes difficult to dance with the zills. Walk around, and hold your hands in different positions!

Have fun! ..g.:

Try rt-rt-rt-lft-rt- Rt-rt-lft-rt- rt-lft for the belady you are asking about.
Its the dum-dum-tek-a-tek-dum-tek-a-tek-tek-a
pattern of the drum.
Do it couple of times and you will begin to hear it flow with the drum.
Listen for the little "Breaths" in the beat, they are kinda like an "And-a"
Hey,this is hard to do in print! hope it helps.

Thank you all of you, this is something I can start working with. I will look for that Cd from Solace and perhaps the Mimi Spencer set. Great, I have a reason to do some more shoping again

Originally Posted by natalie_bax

Thank you all of you, this is something I can start working with. I will look for that Cd from Solace and perhaps the Mimi Spencer set. Great, I have a reason to do some more shoping again

Hi, everything everyone said except I want to add: remember when you are playing more complex zill patterns, keep your dance steps SIMPLE - and keep zill patterns simple when you need to do complex steps - otherwise you risk getting so lost that you aren't playing with the music at all. This tip is from an all-time zill expert, Aida El-Adawi who taught me performing with zills, not just dancing in class to a couple of combinations and including zill patterns. . Most of my club/restaurant work was with live Arabic bands and the cardinal sin with them is allowing zills to get off-rythm; they then have to "tune out" the dancer and that's not a good thing! Take heart, it is really the practice that counts;, also your hands get stronger. Oh and watch out for hand cramps, warm up and stretch your hands prior to every practice and especially every performance. I remember in the beginning oif one of my shows (and they were 45 minutes long) my right hand started to get an awful cramp (owwwww!) in the first 10 minutes after my entrance - I couldn't play properly with one hand curled into a cramp, so I spun around to face musicians, and removed them discreetly while doing a little vibrating hip shimmy and then turned back to audience and went into my veil routine and didn't zill at all for rest of my show. As a guide, it took me six months of practicing dancing at home daily with my zills before I was able to incorporate it into my paid gigs. Anytime I felt for an instant that I might be losing rythm with zills, I stopped and waited for the next obvious 8-count measure or phrase of music before starting to zill again.
The main thing is, don't give up! Eventually, you will become a "percussionist" and zills start to feel like they are on "auto-pilot" and you aren't having to "work" so hard at getting the rythms, they just flow with the music.........................ahhhh, the thrill of zills!

Sign me,

Nisima, and "I still zill"

The zill patterns from Jamila's CD line up with the most common rhythms - maqsoum, saidi, and beledi. But, keep in mind that there is a whole lot more one can do with zills, too!

I would probably not use these patterns for a malfouf, ayoub, and certainly not for a chifti.

I would recommend Shira's zill page for a very good representation (easy to follow visually) of the basic 4/4 patterns. In addition, I'd check into pages and instruction aimed at drummers for better understanding of rhythms. Because, basically, playing zills you're a percussionist ;-)

Good luck, it's great fun to tackle that!

a good resource is www.maryellendonald.com her website is a great resource. she gave a workshop in baltimore about a week ago. she went over the families of rhythms. she grouped several under beledi and told us that just because you aren't playing the exact same thing as the drummer, doesn't mean you are wrong. she actually had us play opposite of her- it was really hard, but the effect was amazing.

In my experience, I practice zills almost one hour a day, so I do zill drills daily. I have done singles; triplets, but balady is my favorite. It depends on the music, but it sounds like your question isn't about what zill drill to play, its more about identifying the rhythm in the music. You shouldn't have to guess what zill pattern to play. If you listen to the song, the song will tell you the rhythm. Before you work on that, I would suggest that you and your teacher work on identifying and recognizing the different patterns of music. When I first started, I played singles and triplets to balady and saidii. As you become more aware of patterns, you will want to start playing the more complicated zill patterns as they are more interesting and match the music better. For example, for balady you can play triplets, but the balady pattern is more in tune with the music. So my recommendation to you is to first become acquainted with recognizing the different musical rhythms.

Suhaila and Jamilla Salimpour have great zill drills. I am unsure whether Suhaila's drills that she did in her classes are available on dvd, she drills hip movements to different timing than your zills to really isolate them. Good stuff.

if you're performing with zills, it's very tenpting to play around with the rythm too much. This might sound to the public as if you're 'just fooling around' if you change zill patterns too often. Choose a pattern and stick with it for a while, then, when the music changes, choose another pattern. Changing ryhtms too often will also lead away from your dancing. Once you hae to think about your zills al the time, dancing will be harder.

Maybe I'm wrong, but these answers sound like lots of us are mixing up the terms "beat" and "pattern" and "rhythm."

As Lauren indicated, you can play just about any pattern to any rhythm. If you are mimicing the rhythm, then that's a different story (although you can mix some of those together, too, as they are of the same musical/rhythmical family).

If you are just starting, start with singles, doubles and gallop (rlR -- not the same as a triplet). At least to my ear, almost all recognized patterns (including rhythm patterns) are made up of these (I'm leaving out fancy stuff like quads, etc. -- as they wouldn't be something I'd think anyone would start out with!).

Mix it up. Don't play one pattern all through one song. When I teach my beginner zills, I teach singles (and the simple different strikes: ring, clack, muted . . .), then branch into doubles, then into gallops and then we just dance for a bit, clanking away. After that I drill some 4/4 patterns: rlR, rlR, rlrlrlr or 123, 123, 1234567 which can also also be played rlR, rlrlrlr, rlR or rlrlrlr, rlR, rlR; rlR, rlrlR, rlrlR or 123, 12345, 12345 which can also be played with the gallop or 5 singles in any position; etc. :zillgallop:

But listening to the music and playing along with what you hear is the best advice and the best drill. I also echo those who said don't practice sitting still. That will make you a good zillist in th band, but when you try to dance -- well no one likes to be back at square one!

Good luck -- zilling is not only fun, but it adds a great dimension to the dance!

<Good luck -- zilling is not only fun, but it adds a great dimension to the dance!>


Longgggg live zills!!!!

"How to Play Finger Cymbals" with Mesmera was of great help for me.The basic patterns were clearly taught without being too long as to become boring.:zillgallop:

I say go with the Nike slogan: "Just Do It." Zill.... Zill however you want, whenever you want. Get a heavy pair for practice and a lighter pair for performances if you like. Use hand weights to strengthen your forearms because thats where the strength needs to come from. Normally when you skip it's not because you oopsed, it's more likely because your muscles aren't used to being used that way. The only way to get faster is by actually zilling though, training up the muscles will just give you better endurance. At the very very begining you'll probably want to practice slow zilling. Use them with arm transitions and foot work, eventually you'll get used to walking and moving your arms. (The important parts...) I just use my ear and play the zills as if they were a part of the band. I make them compliment whats going on around me. Theres no wrong way so long as it fits and sounds good. Eventually you will want to speed zill and by that time all your practice will have built your skill and endurance up enough to be able to sustain it for short bursts. When learning to speed zill go back to the basics with arm transitions and foot work. Fill the rest in as you get more comfortable.

You do not need designer zills, thats a common misconception. Saroyans sound beautiful but they will not make your speed or your accuracy better. Lightweight zills and single holed zills are the bane of all dancer kind. Avoid them! *chuckles* Follow video programs if you like, I enjoyed Uncle Mafufo's rhythm CD too. Very easy to zill along with. I'm working on an advanced zilling program but I haven't finished it yet. If it's successful then I'll have more information for ya later. ;-) Good luck and I hope you enjoy zilling as much as I do.

Yours in the Dance,
~*Genisis*~

Genisis, your post reminds when I was first learning, sitting in rush hour traffic, playing salsa in my car and zilling to it. Loud enough that other drivers would get out of their cars and look to see what was making that funny noise.:zillevil: :zillevil: :zillevil: :zillevil: :zillevil: :zillevil: :zillevil: :zillevil: :zillevil: :zillevil:

good time. good time...l;,

In playing "to the music" a lot of times I find myself zilling along with the melody line, echoing the accents in the music. Throughout the song, I may switch back and forth between accompanying the rhythm line and the melody line.

I play triplets a lot, if the music calls for a simple rhythmic accompaniment, usually during a more balady section of the piece. I also play the balady rhythm during the balady breakdown part.

However, I don't ever play zills throughout any piece. Especially in a more "oriental" section of an oriental piece, or a slower section, I will let the zills rest, preferring to use them for punctuation and to build excitement.

I don`t even know the zill patterns i play when i do.I just let my ear go with the music and insert the zilling were i feel it sounds good...g.:

Thank you for all the great info! I will start practicing this very afternoon..g.: