Thread: Grade my Khaleegy paper?

I've just emerged from days of research, writing, and fiddling with html code ..c:: and have a page on Khaleegy ready for my students and my website.

My goal here is not to teach the style, but to give background information to someone learning about it in class, deciding whether to take a workshop in it, or just curious about it.

I've had a couple of workshops and classes and done a lot of reading, but I'm not a Khaleegy expert, so I'd appreciate any corrections or feedback.

I'd also appreciate input from students -- is it too long? Did it answer all your questions? Did I leave out anything important? Too many clips? Not enough?

One more thing: Does anyone have a photo of themselves wearing Thobe Nasha'al that I can include to decorate the top half of the page? I'll name you in the caption and link to you if I use your pic.

(I do plan to add some links and source/resource info at the bottom of the page later, I just ran out of steam!)

Belly Dance Stuff - Khaleegy

Very fun! The top vid is the only one showing for me, but other than that it's great!

In the last paragraph you might want to mention that there's a relationship between Nubian and Khaleegy because of the proximity...more traditional Nubian dance is being influenced by the Gulf region as more and more men are forced to find work there (due to the floods they can no longer farm to sustain their families and they may be gone for 6 months at a time, bringing back Gulf influnces of all sorts).

AAAK the videos are the best part!!! I struggled with them soooo much. I'll work on it some more tomorrow and see if I can get them fixed. Maybe I should put links, too, in case the clips don't work for everyone. Thanks so much for the input.

And for the info -- I think Khadija implied it was more the other way around, if I recall, with the gulf dances being influenced by the (presumably older?) Nubian and Bedouin cultures... I'd have to watch the interview again to be sure, it's 2am and I'm getting fuzzy.

Of course, cultural exchange is always a 2 way street in some way, or may flow in one direction for some time and then in the other.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Thanks for the info -- I think Khadija implied it was more the other way around, if I recall, with the gulf dances being influenced by the (presumably older?) Nubian and Bedouin cultures... I'd have to watch the interview again to be sure, it's 2am and I'm getting fuzzy.

oooh, interesting!

Maybe explain significance of costuming? Why the thobe? Oh, and maybe add a "g" spelling to alternate spellings, just in case people are searching the term.

Can we give the baby milk? ;)

Here's that interview just for you, Nasila, since it didn't come out on the page.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_imXj7RsCs]YouTube - Khadijah dances and interview Khaleegy khaleeji[/ame]

Does anyone know 'why the thobe?' I don't have the foggiest idea! lol

Milk is OK, but GIVE the BAby milk is a kinda lame rhythm :)

My Arabic language CD's said that the "G" is used in egyptian dialect, pronounced like the g in "game" and the "J" is used throughout the rest of the Arab world and pronounced like the letter j in "jump".
So anything Khaliji would use the j and Egyptians speaking about Khaliji would use the g.
Is that confusing? I hope not.

I can't wait to see what videos you have up, in case I don't have them already.

Hi Lauren,

Only the top video is working for me also.

I don't know anything about Khaleegy, so I found your page very informative.

I'll be back to check out the other videos!

Great Job!
:-)

Originally Posted by Michelle75

My Arabic language CD's said that the "G" is used in egyptian dialect, pronounced like the g in "game" and the "J" is used throughout the rest of the Arab world and pronounced like the letter j in "jump".
So anything Khaliji would use the j and Egyptians speaking about Khaliji would use the g.
Is that confusing? I hope not.

I can't wait to see what videos you have up, in case I don't have them already.

Yay! That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure enough to put it on the page. I'm so glad to have the confirmationl I always forget whether Egypt is the hard one or the soft one -- I'll have to remember that Egyptians wouldn't say 'Eee jipt' they'd say 'Ee gipt' and maybe that'll help me.

I'm so disappointed that the youtube clips aren't coming through.

How many youtube clips do you guys see on this page:
Belly Dance by Lauren and the Hips Afire Bellydancers

Originally Posted by gothique

Hi Lauren,

Only the top video is working for me also.

I don't know anything about Khaleegy, so I found your page very informative.

I'll be back to check out the other videos!

Great Job!
:-)

The whole page is so SO much better with the videos! Dang it.

I can see all the videos. The info is great, Lauren. I really liked the format. It doesn't overwhelm and yet pulls you in to the genre. Great job.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

My Arabic language CD's said that the "G" is used in egyptian dialect, pronounced like the g in "game" and the "J" is used throughout the rest of the Arab world and pronounced like the letter j in "jump".
So anything Khaliji would use the j and Egyptians speaking about Khaliji would use the g.
Is that confusing? I hope not.

I can't wait to see what videos you have up, in case I don't have them already.

Yep! Spot on. We don't like J in Egypt...g.:

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'll have to remember that Egyptians wouldn't say 'Eee jipt' they'd say 'Ee gipt' and maybe that'll help me.

At the risk of being a smart-ass... Egyptians would actually say "Masr".

(laughing, ducking, and running...)

Originally Posted by *Shira*

At the risk of being a smart-ass... Egyptians would actually say "Masr".

(laughing, ducking, and running...)

ROFLMAO!!!

Oh, I would consider giving a distinction between the Iraqi and "other" khaleegi as it differs greatly from the others. And maybe that there are different styles of Khaleegi in every country - however since most of the songs are sung in bedouin dialects you most often see Saudi/Q8i style dancing. Emarati and Iraqi Khaleegi is quite different from Saudi/Q8i...maybe I'm being too detailed, but I just wanted to put it out there.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'll have to remember that Egyptians wouldn't say 'Eee jipt' they'd say 'Ee gipt' and maybe that'll help me.
[/url]

I see several beat me to it. Just to confuse this even more, Egyptians refer to Egypt as, Masr. If I were to say, "I'm Egyptian" in the Arabic language, I would say, "Ana Masri"...l;,

Way off topic: Here is one of my favorite songs by Nancy Ajram: Ana Masri, with english subtitles.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzjR5IrV_FU]YouTube - Nancy Ajram - Ana Masry [English Subtitles][/ame]

Lauren,
I like the article. I appreciate that you mentioned that there is a diversity of styles (including men's styles) in the gulf, as well as a diversity of rhythms/musical styles. Nice work!

I too am having trouble seeing the vids, except for the first one...

Nisaa

Dear Lauren,
I am not having the best of luck trying to post. This is my third try. Shira contacted me and asked me to contribute to this thread.
My name is A'isha Azar and I have been studying Gulf and Saudi dance since the early 1980s. I have studied mostly with natives and have introduced a Nejdi version of the dance into the States with my best friend, who is Saudi. I think your paper is quite good, and I hope you will not mind if I contribute some info.
The singer in the first clip is an actress named Leila Abdulaziz, from Kuwait.
the dance is not actually native to Oman, according to Omanis with whom I have spoken about it, though there are occasional events there where others might perform it.
On my website, wwwraqsazar.com, there are two articles in the library that talk about Samri and modern offshoots (The dance was originally called Samri, after the rhythm to which it was danced.) they are "Are we confused yet" and "Observations on Samri" I hope they will be of some use to you. Also, I do have other info that is not in the articles. You can email me if you are interested.
I should also add that thobes are not necessarily worn to perform the dance, and that the dresses we usually see are sort of Hindi inspired as opposed to the originals. On my site, that first photo of me in that crazy pink dress. that was a gift from a gentleman from Abu Dhabi. it is sort of a modern version of the old idea.
Regards,
A'isha

we liked it because it dresses up what we already know, or is simply well put to the uninformed

Originally Posted by *Shira*

At the risk of being a smart-ass... Egyptians would actually say "Masr".

(laughing, ducking, and running...)

..l;, Obviously, but since there's no G in Masr, it doesn't make a very good memory trick!

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. DaVid, I think your points might be too fine for this basic intro but I'll link to your site for more information.

Aisha, I'll link to your site as well and remove Oman from my list of countries. Thank you so much.

I'm going now to try to fix the video links...*crosses fingers*

OK, I think I fixed the code!!!

(had to go back to hand coding -- I just got Dreamweaver and it insists on 'fixing' everything and makes it way too complex!)

Now I'll start adding resources. If anyone can recommend videos, websites, master teachers, etc. I'd love to add them. Also, still want PICTURES!!

Darn that Dreamweaver!!! Maybe it should be Nightmareweaver instead. Great site. All the videos worked for me. So interesting. I guess I should read the text and not just watch.

Originally Posted by TheGreatKathyLori

Darn that Dreamweaver!!! Maybe it should be Nightmareweaver instead. Great site. All the videos worked for me. So interesting. I guess I should read the text and not just watch.

LOL - I think you can get the gist of it by watching. So glad the clips work.

I'm not enjoying Dreamweaver at ALL.

As someone with a great love for Khallegy but not much knowledge about it above and beyond what I've gleaned from Bhuz, I have to so I absolutely LOVED reading the article.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

If I were to say, "I'm Egyptian" in the Arabic language, I would say, "Ana Masri"

Gee, Michelle, your avatar doesn't look male to me!

(If I'm not mistaken, "Ana Masri" is the form a man would use, while "Ana Masreyya" which rhymes with Himalaya is the form a woman would use. Of course, if I'm wrong about this, I invite those who know more than I do about Egyptian Arabic to correct me!)

*types bunch of musings about Ana Masri*

*realizes I have no idea what I'm talking about*

*deletes*

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Gee, Michelle, your avatar doesn't look male to me!

(If I'm not mistaken, "Ana Masri" is the form a man would use, while "Ana Masreyya" which rhymes with Himalaya is the form a woman would use. Of course, if I'm wrong about this, I invite those who know more than I do about Egyptian Arabic to correct me!)

Yes, Shira, as always, you're probably right!!..l;, Since I have tata's; I would refer to myself as Masriya (sp. variation) IF I were Egyptian. .w.:
I'm STILL learning myself and I'm not sure on the gender specifics b/c not all words have a gender in arabic language.

Now back to the regular scheduled topic.

OK, gonna post my musings anyway.

Isn't the i ending possessive? (Ana Masri = I am of Egypt)

Like Habib= darling, Habibi = my darling? We don't say Habibeyya? (though I know in very formal speech a woman talking to a woman would say Habibti).

Or... I guess not. Because that would be 'I am my Egypt' not 'I am Egypt's.'

Crap.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

OK, gonna post my musings anyway.

Isn't the i ending possessive? (Ana Masri = I am of Egypt)

Like Habib= darling, Habibi = my darling? We don't say Habibeyya? (though I know in very formal speech a woman talking to a woman would say Habibti).

Or... I guess not. Because that would be 'I am my Egypt' not 'I am Egypt's.'

Crap.

See, that's what I was thinking. Now I'm really doubting myself.

*Goes off and finds Arabic CD's*

I'm back. Masri is the male singular and Masriya is the female singular

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Gee, Michelle, your avatar doesn't look male to me!

(If I'm not mistaken, "Ana Masri" is the form a man would use, while "Ana Masreyya" which rhymes with Himalaya is the form a woman would use. Of course, if I'm wrong about this, I invite those who know more than I do about Egyptian Arabic to correct me!)

Dead on, Shira! ..l;,..l;,..l;, You're right. Masri is for men. Women use masria( singular of course.)

P.S. I was hoping Aisha would chime in. She is known as a Khaleegy font of knowledge here on the West Coast

Originally Posted by Lauren_

OK, gonna post my musings anyway.

Isn't the i ending possessive? (Ana Masri = I am of Egypt)

Like Habib= darling, Habibi = my darling? We don't say Habibeyya? (though I know in very formal speech a woman talking to a woman would say Habibti).

Or... I guess not. Because that would be 'I am my Egypt' not 'I am Egypt's.'

Crap.

The "I" ending can be adjectival OR possessive (first person). Masri= "my Egypt" or "Egyptian."

You would say "Habibi" to a man or "Habibti" to a woman. Although some friends have told me that "habibi" is often used for both and that "habibti" sounds stilted, even though it's correct....

I see. So the 'i' ending can mean 'my' (Omri, Habibi, Oyouni) or can mean '-an, -ian' etc (masculine) (Saidi, Masri, Ghawazee -- feminine forms would be Saidia, Masria, Ghazia or Saideyya, Masreyya, Glhazeyya or however we're transliterating this week).

I learn SO much here... no wonder I can't get off Bhuz today and clean my house!

Lauren, just got a chance to read through the page you've put together. Great job! That was some costume that Lucy was wearing under her thobe, wasn't it?? Shoes and all!