Thread: Gorpy dance technique discussion: Raqia Hassan's Shimmies

It's been a while since we've had a good, juicy technique discussion on bhuz. Would anyone like to join me in discussing how to teach Raqia Hassan's "knee shimmy"?

The reason I bring this up is remembering an intermediate student who moved to my town and joined my classes. She said that doing Raqia's shimmies made her knees hurt. In working with her, I found that she had been taught the move as pushing the knees back-back-back. This focus led her to force them too far back and hyperextended into the straight-leg position. Ouch! I worked with her to show her alternative ways to visualize the move, and over time she was able to do them safely.

Here are some of my thoughts in explaining this move to others:

1. I avoid using the terms "the straight-leg shimmy" or the "knee shimmy", because I fear this draws the student's focus in a way that can lead to injury. Instead, I name it "the Raqia Hassan shimmy" because that's the primary advocate that has brought it into our view of the dance.

2. When I initially teach it, I let students pick their heels up off the floor, and I have them imagine they are using a Stairmaster or climbing stairs, and move their legs in that way. Once they get the basic visualization, we gradually refine it - keeping heels on the floor, etc.

3. For students who like to think in terms of anatomy, I tell them the shimmy is driven by the quadriceps (thighs). I tell them to imagine their femur wobbling in the "leg-pit" (trochanter joint).


So, how does everyone else out there envision this move and explain it to others, and why do you explain it the way you do? Do you just repeat the way you were told by someone else? Have you come up with your own way of explaining it, and if so, what was your aim in explaining it the way you did? What do you think is a safe way to explain it to avoid risking knee injury through misinterpretation?

hi Shira :)
when i was taught the knee shimmy, my teacher just descriped it as "pumping your knees". because of my dance background i already had the [I]feeling[I]of it and got it right, but i can remember seeing some of my classmates (especially the ones no-longer-30) struggling with it.
i guess the best way of explaining it is the Stairmaster method, never thought of that before...

let's see what the others will come up with


xxx
Athena

Ooh, Stairmaster, interesting visualisation. I love visualisations and am shimmilly challenged... watching this space eagerly, carry on being gorpy please!

When I was first taught this shimmy, it was "back back back back." I haven't had any knee problems as a result, but I've never been very happy with the way it looked or my control of it. Then I started focusing more on the forward movement (powered by the hamstrings rather than the quads) and it seems more controlled to me.

Also, in the one Raqia technique vid I have, I was surprised to see her legs so far apart when she teaches this. She may not do it that way any more. I like it though; when my legs are just under shoulder-width apart (rather than under hip-width), it results in a much more relaxed shimmy for me.

Edit: I should add that I have broad shoulders!

I teach these shimmies by first starting sitting on the floor, legs straight in front. They I tell my students to bend one knee softly and let it drop onto the floor with no push, just using gravity. When the leg hits the floor I tell them to let it completely go "rubbery" and let the everything, skin, bone, muscles feel like its all blubber. (I got the floor exercise from Sahra Saeeda).

We alternate legs, speed up, do it for a long time. Then we stand up and keep the feeling. I don't let them lift their heels, rather I tell them to feel a connection with the floor, as if it is causing the shimmy from the ground up. I find that lifting the heels brings tension into the legs and especially quads that gives the shimmy a less juicy look. I say they can find the place on their feet that they feel works best for them but to start with the heels so that they don't lose the floor connection.

Once the students have got the feeling of the "wibble wobble" legs, I ask them to feel that the shimmy is being powered from about half way up the back of the thigh, keeping very relaxed and feeling the connection with the floor. I think this gives the shimmy more power.

Originally Posted by ouroboros

I teach these shimmies by first starting sitting on the floor, legs straight in front. They I tell my students to bend one knee softly and let it drop onto the floor with no push, just using gravity. When the leg hits the floor I tell them to let it completely go "rubbery" and let the everything, skin, bone, muscles feel like its all blubber. (I got the floor exercise from Sahra Saeeda).

This was also the technique that one of my teachers used, and as a student I found it effective. I hyperextend easily, and the muscle memory built from the floor helped to prevent hyperextension of my knees when I was standing.

Originally Posted by Taj

When I was first taught this shimmy, it was "back back back back."

Funny, I recall being taught to "bend bend bend" - bend the knee then straighten it and get the feel of the hip's natural drop when doing so. I don't recall ever hyperextending myself whilst doing this; I recall being taught to do it gently at first and maybe that helped when we sped up the shimmy. (I have often wondered what *exactly* the other shimmies are as this is the only one I know/do.)


ETA: What is 'gorpy'??

Originally Posted by maranajla

ETA: What is 'gorpy'??

Hee hee, it's a word that my colleagues and I use in my day job when talking about all the intricate, tiny details that need to be addressed when working on a project. So we'll talk about all the 'gorpy little details" that need to be addressed before a project can be considered completed.

Here on bhuz, technique discussions can get really detailed, analytical, and involved, so I thought the word would apply quite well to this topic!

No hips.Its in the legs. you are taking the legs back but not relaxing the hips to either side so the hips don't get involved. i learned this shimmy from Raqia. I teach it regularly and I've never had any problems with it or had any of my students have any problem with it. the weight goes under the balls of the feet, the ankles relaxed (heels still on floor)Sorry hard to explain I wrk better in visuals.its a brilliant shimmy because once you've mastered it you can layer it with any move you care to name.

Originally Posted by Candi

No hips.Its in the legs. you are taking the legs back but not relaxing the hips to either side so the hips don't get involved. i learned this shimmy from Raqia. I teach it regularly and I've never had any problems with it or had any of my students have any problem with it. the weight goes under the balls of the feet, the ankles relaxed (heels still on floor)Sorry hard to explain I wrk better in visuals.its a brilliant shimmy because once you've mastered it you can layer it with any move you care to name.

Yes, the biggest issue students seem to have with this shimmy is that they badly want their hips to go up and down.

In this shimmy, we don't drop the hip when the knee bends. We don't raise or drop the hips at all. Experienced students have more trouble with it than beginners because they can't seem to let go of trying to make the hips move.

I teach it by having students pretend to run in place with their toes 'nailed' to the floor, letting the heels move. I go around and help them identify whether they're still trying to move their hips -- many are, but don't realize it!! Then gradually we nail the heels down.

The thighs moving forward and back in this shimmy makes the hip move, but it's not an up-and-down hip movement. In fact, I won't even talk about the movement the hips are supposed to make because people get too focused on that. Relax the hips. Move the thighs.

p.s. You know you're doing this shimmy right when your belly button moves side to side!!!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

The thighs moving forward and back in this shimmy makes the hip move, but it's not an up-and-down hip movement. In fact, I won't even talk about the movement the hips are supposed to make because people get too focused on that. Relax the hips. Move the thighs.

Oddly, last night in class I felt compelled to describe the resulting hip movement as "bunnies in a sack"...don't ask me why.

Well I would like to join in this discussion but since I have not taken a lesson or workshop from her I feel unqualified to do so....

Looking forward to reading this discussion...

I teach the back-back-back method as well, but stress that it's a small, non-jerky movement that should never involve hyperextending the knee. I tell them to think about rubbing the insides of their thighs together, so if they were wearing corduroys it would make a "whuf whuff whuff" sound (an observation that always makes the students smile or laugh).

Originally Posted by laura 2

I teach the back-back-back method as well, but stress that it's a small, non-jerky movement that should never involve hyperextending the knee. I tell them to think about rubbing the insides of their thighs together, so if they were wearing corduroys it would make a "whuf whuff whuff" sound (an observation that always makes the students smile or laugh).

I tell them if they were wearing corduroys they'd probably be starting a fire!! .w.:

Ahhh...the sound of inner thighs slapping together in the evening...sweet music. I have had the worst time with this move and even caused injury to my very weak knees. I had to up my meds to double because of the pain I caused my self while thinking knee knee knee back back back. As far as layering..I do much better layering a freeze...but that may change as things get better.

It was Kashmir's observation that this technique actually produces a *side to side* shake, not an up-down one, that made my brain go "ping" for describing this movement. I think it's really common when breaking it down to forget that the hips do NOT go up and down.

I think some teachers emphasise the straightening of the leg excessively. I learned this shimmy from Hadia, not Raqia, and the one thing I don't like about how Hadia does it is that she really does straighten her leg right back. Now Hadia is a physical powerhouse and could probably smash herself around the room like a shuttlecock without significant issues - and on the other hand she's so conscious of body safety - but I think the way it looks on her, when you can see her legs going, tempts you to lock the knees back. OTOH the way she describes the legs, blah blah blah blah blah, indicates the necessary softness.

But I haven't really mastered this shimmy myself and only introduce it with experienced students as an "extension". My default is still that loose hip rock shimmy that I started out with, and I make people work on that forever and ever because *most* people shimmy way too tight and small. The really ironic thing is I am pretty certain that I often switch to a Raqia style shimmy whenever I shimmy on one leg, or layer something on top, but not when standing on both legs.

My problem is tightening up while I do the move. Caroline Evanoff, who also taught it when she was here (and she is a Raqia girl) suggests moving round on it, which does help, but obviously I don't want to move around on it *all* the time.

I have had a hard time with this shimmy- thanks Lauren for identifying that more advanced students have more problems than beginners! That actually made me feel better about not being able to sustain a Raqia Shimmy. I can do it fine for about 4 minutes but then I lose it.

Hadia explained it to me well by calling it a thigh shimmy and to let your quads be as loose and jiggly as possible. She had me jiggle my arms to get the feeling of bonelessness that would give my body an idea of what it should feel like. That helped. By moving another body part that is easier, it helped my brain translate it to another body part. Does that make sense???

But it hasn't really stuck for me, I can't seem to sustain it. Any helpful advice there? Or just practice? Duh.

Ha ha! Zumradd we posted at the same time!

loose hip rock shimmy that I started out with

That one cause hip pain for me...ahh yes, I am a delicate flower! Seriously having had RA since I was 5..I must find the least percussive, least injurious shimmy I can for drilling for longish periods of time. The freeze and the twist shimmies involve no joints at all, but they dont give me the juicy look I crave. The hip rock does..but it has its cost and it makes me pay.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I tell them if they were wearing corduroys they'd probably be starting a fire!! .w.:

Yes! "If we were on LOST, if you had some wood and a piece of flint you could start a fire with this shimmy." ..l;,

Originally Posted by jamielynn

I have had a hard time with this shimmy- thanks Lauren for identifying that more advanced students have more problems than beginners! That actually made me feel better about not being able to sustain a Raqia Shimmy. I can do it fine for about 4 minutes but then I lose it.

Hadia explained it to me well by calling it a thigh shimmy and to let your quads be as loose and jiggly as possible. She had me jiggle my arms to get the feeling of bonelessness that would give my body an idea of what it should feel like. That helped. By moving another body part that is easier, it helped my brain translate it to another body part. Does that make sense???

But it hasn't really stuck for me, I can't seem to sustain it. Any helpful advice there? Or just practice? Duh.

Ha ha! Zumradd we posted at the same time!

I like your Hadia version better! She did emphasise the looseness. It's just that it doesn't look that way when she does it!

Hadia doesnt have anything to look loose!

Okay, I'm up to speed. The title threw me off.

I do not teach this shimmy. It is not part of my curriculum of dance technique, but I do use it for my self depending on what look I want to present in my dance, but for myself and if I were to teach it. This is how I do it.

I sit on the floor legs in front and work on the muscle twitch by contracting the quads with a quick release. This prevents the legs from hyper extending. I start out slow at quarter time and increase to double time slowly.

When standing it drives the hips. The movement is small, If you use the full strength of your quads then the hip movement is larger and there is a greater chance of hyperextending the legs. That is why I use a twitch and not a full contraction.

I found that the direction of the hips depends on how you control your hips. I stabilize my hips for an up and down motion by contracting and holding my lower abs which I find is natural cause the lower abs are used to tuck the pelvis and hold proper posture and weight is back on the heals.

Now if you want to have a greater hip movement with out hyper extending the legs just bend your knees more.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

...p.s. You know you're doing this shimmy right when your belly button moves side to side!!!

OMG it does. Big YAY to all you gorp-tastic belly dancers!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

The thighs moving forward and back in this shimmy makes the hip move, but it's not an up-and-down hip movement. In fact, I won't even talk about the movement the hips are supposed to make because people get too focused on that. Relax the hips. Move the thighs.

p.s. You know you're doing this shimmy right when your belly button moves side to side!!!

I never noticed this before. Mine is going side to side! (but it's a small move, not a huge earthy shimmy like my hip shimmy; is this still right?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I tell them if they were wearing corduroys they'd probably be starting a fire!! .w.:

So your legs are very close together?

so the shimmy should look as if your trunk (the front mor than the whole trunk) is moving side to side like a washing machine? Not twisting in the hips, but smaller right?

And somewhere it was said that the quads are relaxed. Are the glutes relaxed too or slightly tight?

Is this also called the Egyptian shimmy?

Okay, my limit for gorping in one post is reached..l;,

Where does the torso sit during all this? Straight up and down or hips tucked under?

I have been working with my shimmies lately so this is a great thread. Thank you Shira

Long straight spine. No sitting down in this shimmy.

Originally Posted by HOOKEDNOVICE

I never noticed this before. Mine is going side to side! (but it's a small move, not a huge earthy shimmy like my hip shimmy; is this still right?


So your legs are very close together?

so the shimmy should look as if your trunk (the front mor than the whole trunk) is moving side to side like a washing machine? Not twisting in the hips, but smaller right?

And somewhere it was said that the quads are relaxed. Are the glutes relaxed too or slightly tight?

Is this also called the Egyptian shimmy?

Okay, my limit for gorping in one post is reached..l;,

Yes, it's subtle through the hips (somewhere between a soft microtwist and a micro side-to-side movement). There's still plenty of movement but it's all reverb -- soft tissue wiggling -- not so much movement of the skeleton.

I don't think my legs are any closer together than normal. I think my glutes are pretty relaxed.

And yes, this is the one that's also called the Egyptian shimmy.

I tell them to think of putting their hamstrings on the back wall (from Nourhan??). Hips and buns have to be loose so they can go with the movement rather than absorbing it. You're creating all this energy with the legs, and if your hips are tight it will travel up the body instead of coming out at the hips.

We practice it legs close, legs wide, then legs close again. While not a performance move, doing it with the legs wide makes the close legs variety seem so much easier and more powerful. We do it with a twist as well as with the hips straight on.

I've also used the fire-starting thing. ..l;,

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Yes, it's subtle through the hips (somewhere between a soft microtwist and a micro side-to-side movement). There's still plenty of movement but it's all reverb -- soft tissue wiggling -- not so much movement of the skeleton.

REVERB Totally!! I have it! All this time I wasn't sure if I was doing it right because it was a smaller movement.

Now for me this begs the question: How would you layer a fig 8 or a simple hip circle with this one. I can slide side to side with this shimmy but as soon as I try to touch "6 o'clock" (directly behind) the shimmy almost disappears. Any suggestions? Your visuals are always so good.

(bump)

Lauren? Another one of your visuals for this dilemma? :-)