Thread: Out of line? Student needs advice please!

Hi everyone! First time posting! Sorry this isn't belly dance specific but I didn't know where else to ask for advice!
After nearly 10 years of belly dance I wanted to try something new and have been quite taken with Brazilian dance so I found some classes- the only classes offered in my area.

I like my teacher's personality but she is not a good teacher and I am very frustrated. Yes, it's new and I kinda suck but her beginner level classes are more aimed at the advanced students she has who find her beginner classes as a way to get in some cheap extra practice. It's not really fair but the class is full of these advanced students and only a few beginner students because many of the rest dropped out after getting too frustrated. We're 5 classes and and working on 3 choreographies. It's fun but at the same time she doesn't break down the steps well and she gets frustrated if we ask for help. She says things like "If you can't get this now, you're going to be lost and I can't keep stopping class to help you". I could go on and on but that's the main problem.

Last class she came up from behind me as I had my back turned to her and grabbed my arms and waved them over my head. As she is shorter then me, it bent my back in an uncomfortable manner. This was with out warning and she offered no other correction before doing so- it was really unexpected and rather scared me! I have been attacked from behind so my first reaction was to struggle and defend myself until I fully realized what was going on.
The rest of the class gasped and stopped dancing but she just yelled "keep dancing" and returned to the front of the class. I nearly walked out but took a few minutes to compose myself before finishing class.

I found it highly inappropriate and still have no idea what I did wrong. My other dance teachers never corrected me physically with out asking permission first. I wanted to tell her after class how I felt but she is always surrounded by students and I didn't feel comfortable doing so. My next thought was write an email to her but I only can contact her through the studio that offers the classes. I fell going directly through them and addressing this problem with her would damage my relationship with her which would be bad because even though I don't enjoy her classes I still really want to learn this dance style. I can suck it up and continue but want to make sure I won't be grabbed from behind like that again- I nearly elbowed her in the face out of instinct!

Any advice, have you had a teacher like this before? Is it out of line to let the studio know what happened or should I just find time to discuss this directly with my teacher?
Thanks!

Ask her if she has liability insurance if she injures a student.
You could say it with a smile, but seriously, she could injure you by grabbing or throwing you off balance.
You could also talk with the studio owner and ask them if they have a policy in effect for teachers that covers "Physical hands on correction of students" that will get thier attention that perhaps they should talk with her about her teaching methods.

I'd come to her before/after class and ask 'Can I speak to you privately for a second' to get her away from the group. I'd tell her 'I just need you to know that I've had a bad physical experience in the past and I'm not comfortable with being touched unexpectedly, especially from behind. Can you give me verbal correction in the future?'

Sometimes interactions with other people work best when we handle things simply and just ask for whatever we want/need, without apology, as simply as going through the driveup window at Jack-in-the-Box. 'I need verbal correction.' Not always, but sometimes.

That's assuming you want to stay in her class and that getting away from the physical correction is your primary goal right now. I've been to bellydance teachers whose 'beginner' class was mostly advanced dancers. Sometimes the teacher seems to set it up that way deliberately, because she really doesn't enjoy working with beginners. Other times it just happens and the teacher gets pulled along, trying to serve the majority. Sounds like your case is the first kind. Only the tough (and talented) stay in this kind of class for long -- which is why there aren't more beginners in the beginner class!!

What you've described sounds like bad teaching. You're not whinging, it's just bad.

I'd talk to the teacher first, and the studio second if she doesn't listen to you. As a teacher, I like to know what works for my students and what doesn't, and any decent teacher will appreciate the feedback. As a studio owner, I really, really appreciate when students tell me if they're unhappy with something in their class. If I'm not teaching the class, I can't tell what's going on, and it's frustrating to have students drop out without knowing why. If this is an ongoing problem, you'll be doing the studio a favour by alerting them to issues.

Of course, give feedback in a constructive manner. And understand that sometimes the teacher has to go with the majority and can't please everyone.

If neither the teacher nor the studio listens or changes anything, then don't keep going! Perhaps there's another school or activity you can try that will actually give you a positive experience.

I would speak with her/studio owner. But seriously I wouldn not be in that class! Learning a new dance form should be all about fun and joy in the new! Not being belittled or assulted.
Sorry just my two cents (with inflation that is nothing I realize)

Jewel pretty much said it. I would make sure to let the teacher and studio know how uncomfortable you were with her physically correcting you.

One thing I go by is "To the best of your ability, never touch your students." Come to think of it, I have never had to touch a student, and I have never had a teacher of mine touch me either.

Thanks for the great responses, I'll try to talk with her before next class and see how it goes. I kind of felt contacting the studio before speaking with her would be a little unfair.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'd come to her before/after class and ask 'Can I speak to you privately for a second' to get her away from the group. I'd tell her 'I just need you to know that I've had a bad physical experience in the past and I'm not comfortable with being touched unexpectedly, especially from behind. Can you give me verbal correction in the future?'

I used to do classes with a woman who, I think, had had bad physical experiences and was also a martial arts practitioner, and she pretty much told people straight out, don't get too close to me from behind because I'll probably react without thinking and I would hate it if I inadvertently hurt you.

I wasn't there this particular day, but I remember my teacher said she's never seen anything like it in her life - this dancer's veil started to tangle her up and she *beat up her veil*.

So, this dance teacher is taking her life in her hands!

In this day and age, I can't believe she didn't ask permission to touch you first. Some liability insurance policies require it for dance studios. I never, ever touch a student without first asking "Is it okay if I put my hands on your hips/shoulders/arms to show you what I mean?"

This way they know exactly where they'll be touched and why. Even if they've previously said yes a dozen times, I always ask again if it's a different day and a different class. Most welcome some help in 3-D, as we call it, but one said no once. I found another way to help her.

Originally Posted by hasani

In this day and age, I can't believe she didn't ask permission to touch you first. Some liability insurance policies require it for dance studios. I never, ever touch a student without first asking "Is it okay if I put my hands on your hips/shoulders/arms to show you what I mean?"

This way they know exactly where they'll be touched and why. Even if they've previously said yes a dozen times, I always ask again if it's a different day and a different class. Most welcome some help in 3-D, as we call it, but one said no once. I found another way to help her.

This is *exactly* what I was taught about physical assists in yoga. Ask every time.

Yep I always ask, and rarely, very rarely do I find it necessary to touch. There are many ways to correct without touching.

I personally do not mind if my instructors touch me but they always ask before. It proved very useful one time when only touch could demonstrate how I was incorrectly using my upper back verses lower back to isolate my hip locks. I got to touch her to feel the difference in the muscle contraction.

I would talk to her privately at first. If she does it again, then I would talk to the owner. She could hurt someone someday not meaning to, but maybe her other students have given her carte blanche to just correct them like that. But she should find out if this okay with you first.

If it's impossible to get a word with her privately, you could always mail her an actual letter, care of the studio.

I managed to find her on facebook and sent a little note and she was actually very gracious about the whole thing and sent me a very nice apology. I'm feeling much better about it! Thanks again everyone!

Originally Posted by hasani

In this day and age, I can't believe she didn't ask permission to touch you first. Some liability insurance policies require it for dance studios. I never, ever touch a student without first asking "Is it okay if I put my hands on your hips/shoulders/arms to show you what I mean?"

This way they know exactly where they'll be touched and why. Even if they've previously said yes a dozen times, I always ask again if it's a different day and a different class. Most welcome some help in 3-D, as we call it, but one said no once. I found another way to help her.

Ditto.


Khalida

I had a teacher who said repeatedly that she didn't understand why some people had problems with being touched. After I explained in detail exactly why, she still said 'well they should get over it, I don't understand why they're like that'. She just loved touching people and didn't see how creepy it could be. This was a college professor, not a dance teacher, so some people just don't get it. I'm glad this teacher did.

Originally Posted by Ting_Ting

I managed to find her on facebook and sent a little note and she was actually very gracious about the whole thing and sent me a very nice apology. I'm feeling much better about it! Thanks again everyone!

That's wonderful!

She may not be the world's greatest teacher, but if she's the only one in the area and you really want the subject matter, it's great if you can work things out. If she's very knowledgable but just a poor communicator, you may still be able to wring a lot of learning out of the whole experience.

Originally Posted by Ting_Ting

it was really unexpected and rather scared me! I have been attacked from behind so my first reaction was to struggle and defend myself until I fully realized what was going on.

I think it's important for people to realize how something quite ordinary to them may have a bad connotation for someone else. Anyone who has been assaulted knows this intense fear and need to defend themselves. Even simple things can make you nervous for no apparent reason. I can't do a veil move our instructor calls bondage (where you wrap the veil around your wrists above your head). I thought I was over my rape (nearly 20 years ago) but when she taught us that move, I started shaking and had to catch my breath. I told her after class that if we did that move in a choregraphy I may not be able to do it. I told her I wanted to try to get over it but I wanted her to understand if I couldn't do it. She is very supportive and didn't incorporate that move in our choreography.

I'm glad to hear your instructor apologized and hopefully she'll be more aware in the future of how her actions may effect people.

Hmm...I do a lot of veilwork and I have never heard of such a move. Anybody? Did I miss a boat somewhere?

Gah! I don't think I would call a dance move bondage in a BD class. I mean, if you're into that, there's nothing wrong with that, yadda, yadda, but I think you're dealing with too many people's personal issues to guarantee that they'll think that's funny or cute.

Yeah, I didn't like the name either. Our instructor said that is the name one of her former students called it. She didn't know the real name.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Hmm...I do a lot of veilwork and I have never heard of such a move. Anybody? Did I miss a boat somewhere?

Is it like this:
YouTube - Fabulous Four Yard Veil with Shoshanna - DVD preview

I sometimes do this, but leave my arms up, so the veil stays wrapped around the wrists instead of letting it slide down immediately. If pulled tight, your arms would be immobilized, and so the name makes sense ... though I wouldn't call it that.

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

Yep I always ask, and rarely, very rarely do I find it necessary to touch. There are many ways to correct without touching.

I personally do not mind if my instructors touch me but they always ask before. It proved very useful one time when only touch could demonstrate how I was incorrectly using my upper back verses lower back to isolate my hip locks. I got to touch her to feel the difference in the muscle contraction.

I totally agree. Sometimes I have to slightly touch my students arms to get them in the right place because they are having trouble. But we always make eye contact and I talk to them first. I would certainly never grab someone that's crazy!
Sometimes I ask my student sto put their hands lightly on my hips to feel the correct way to do a figure eight. My teacher used to do that and I found it quite helpful when I was just a beginner and it has helped my students as well.
No teacher should ever try to physically move you around.
You are not out of line but maybe this isn't the class for you. Some teachers like to teach advanced cause it's easy for them and then let their students stumble along behind. Sounds like your gal is one of them.

Originally Posted by LeylaFahada

Is it like this:
YouTube - Fabulous Four Yard Veil with Shoshanna - DVD preview

I sometimes do this, but leave my arms up, so the veil stays wrapped around the wrists instead of letting it slide down immediately. If pulled tight, your arms would be immobilized, and so the name makes sense ... though I wouldn't call it that.

Yup - that's it. It looks neat letting it slide down the arms like that. But like you, our instructor had us keep our arms up with the veil wrapped around the wrists. I think she had us doing head slides with the move but by then I was hyperventilating so I don't remember.

Oh, THAT. I had a *completely* different image in my head! ..g.: Probably due to the name!

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

Oh, THAT. I had a *completely* different image in my head! ..g.: Probably due to the name!

I don't think I even want to know what you were thinking.

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

I had a teacher who said repeatedly that she didn't understand why some people had problems with being touched. After I explained in detail exactly why, she still said 'well they should get over it, I don't understand why they're like that'. She just loved touching people and didn't see how creepy it could be. This was a college professor, not a dance teacher, so some people just don't get it

short little hijack...
Maybe you could tell her that because it"s about respecting others and their pesonal space. If she still doesn't get it then maybe she could get a different occupation, like an accountant or something where she *never* has to touch anyone ever again!

LOLLL ;)