Thread: male student wants private instruction...the catch

Okay so I just need advice... and maybe a "you can do this!"

I just got a call from a gentleman who wants private lessons. So I was skeptical at first but he does seem genuinely interested. He wants to learn "manly" bellydance...problems?

One: I have no experience with male bellydancers. I have seen them on Youtube but I have never even had a male in my classes as a student. Is there a big difference? Can I just instruct him as I do my ladies and its okay? Maybe I need to consult Zorba on this one...

Two: This one is bigger. He is a male stripper....he wants to expand his repertoire to include bellydance "Sultan style". Normally I am all "go ahead do your thing as long as you don't expect me to do it." It just rubs me as I am always having to defend against the "stripper" perception with the GP.

Ahh!!! Need counsel!.w.:

Perhaps you would give me some of the feminine hand moves and what not but I wouldn't treat him much different than a female. I know that Zorba has an article on his site about male students that might be helpful. You can do it, good luck!

I have no problem teaching "strippers" or pole dancers, but I make it very clear to them that I DO NOT consider bellydance to be related in any fashion to anything they would do on their stage. I tell them that I respect their art form and would hope they would respect mine.

You can only lead them to water, but one of the girls I taught joined up with a tribal group not too long after :)

I don't know about this guy. You could start him on Suhaila style drilling, and let him try to figure out how to make THAT look sexy to women :)

I think it's not so much a question of can you teach him - sure, you could - it's do you want to teach him? Or for what he probably wants (guessing a few basic moves to expand on & incorporate into his strip act) would a beginners type video be better suited for him?

The stripper perception comes from the West's fantasy that belly dance is about seduction and stripping for the Sultan. I think it would come off very different on a male stripper dancing "Sultan style."

I would focus him on shimmies and hip work to begin with, then sword work and cape when he is ready for props. I have a feeling that this is what he is defining as "Sultan style" (but who knows, I could be wrong).

Originally Posted by aziyade

You could start him on Suhaila style drilling, and let him try to figure out how to make THAT look sexy to women :)

Judging by the whooping & hollering I heard, that's exactly what Tito does (though it didn't do it for me).

Sounds like could be a fun commission, if you feel comfortable with it.
Definitely go with Zorba's recommendations.

My general adjustments for male students in rambling form...

Women tend to perform movements or move in 3/4 angles. Men are permitted to hold a more direct, frontal posture and perform movements straight on.

The arms can be "harder"; i.e., less curvature in the arms, fingers don't have to be soft.

Teach all the basic movements that are the hallmark of this dance: figure 8s, undulations, circles. They will look different automatically on a male body b/c of the lack of curvy hips and you might run into "concrete pelvis" issues, since male pelvii (I'm making up words) tend not to "open" as much or be as flexible (since they're not engineered for childbirth).

Take a look at dancers such as Tarik Sultan, Tito, Horacio Cifuentes, Kamaal, to see how they adapt movements. I wish you had access to Philadelphia's Omar. His door swings the other way but the way he dances is very electrifying and masculine. And distilled, it's mainly posturing and attitude. He does sword, assorted shimmies and things, but his main strength is carriage and confidence.

OT, I got a strange call a long time ago from a man who WANTED to dance feminine. He wanted to know if my students would feel comfortable with a male student who wanted me to correct him to dance more womanly. He also informed me that he would be wearing makeup to class in his effort to be more feminine.

Thank you ladies so much. I was just floored by the request. He seems like a nice guy and genuine. I was a little worried it was a joke but I thought why not? It really could be fun. I will check into Zorba's article:) Thanks and I will check out those dancers Azhia.
oooh research and growth as an instructor and dancer!
Yeah!

i go out of my way to teach/coach men.i love it.it might give you another view.go for it !
i have taught zorba in 2 workshops with women.if he is a true performer, and you feel odd about privates, put him in a class.if he really wants to learn, basics are basics.if he makes it through a clas and has good form AND PROVED NOT CREEPY, give him privates to build his act!

Originally Posted by aziyade

I have no problem teaching "strippers" or pole dancers, but I make it very clear to them that I DO NOT consider bellydance to be related in any fashion to anything they would do on their stage. I tell them that I respect their art form and would hope they would respect mine.

You can only lead them to water, but one of the girls I taught joined up with a tribal group not too long after :)

I don't know about this guy. You could start him on Suhaila style drilling, and let him try to figure out how to make THAT look sexy to women :)

Maybe his audience isn't women
We don't want to assume anything.

I think zamora has a good point. Having him take a few group classes before starting privates (somehow seems like an inappropriate term in this case....lol...oh, that's the cold meds talking...!) might help ease some of your hesitations...and it may help him see what BD is all about in case he has any misconceptions.

Women tend to perform movements or move in 3/4 angles. Men are permitted to hold a more direct, frontal posture and perform movements straight on.

Is that from that guy's website where he also talks about doing a big manly stare across the stage? Eh. Women perform movements straight on where I come from, all the time. Perhaps it's because there's something "manly" about us or perhaps that's really not valid.

To me a man dances like a man because he is a man. He has a man's body. Tito doesn't make his dance more masculine. It's masculine because he's a masculine kind of guy.

Originally Posted by aziyade

You can only lead them to water

True and sometimes it works! I'm working with a male belly dancer who originally started belly dance lessons as a way to improve his burlesque snake dancing routine at a local gay club but ended up loving belly dance and is making the steps to become a belly dance performer instead. He's in classes with a Turkish male teacher (wow, I had no idea we had one around here) and it's been fun dancing with him so far.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Is that from that guy's website where he also talks about doing a big manly stare across the stage? Eh. Women perform movements straight on where I come from, all the time. Perhaps it's because there's something "manly" about us or perhaps that's really not valid.

To me a man dances like a man because he is a man. He has a man's body. Tito doesn't make his dance more masculine. It's masculine because he's a masculine kind of guy.

I don't remember where I learned this. It was from a male teacher, though. Sure, sure women can also do full frontal movements (take that however ); that was a general generalization.

There are a few male dancers whose dancing I do not like as much because they don't maintain their masculinity and might as well be dancing in drag. I will not name them but I find it annoying. That is just my own personal issue with it.

Originally Posted by samiramirage

Maybe his audience isn't women
We don't want to assume anything.

True. Actually, most of the male strippers I've met performed in gay clubs.

Well he was very quick to point out he does a lot of bachelorette parties and was straight. lol which doesn't tell me too much. I will have someone come with me to the studio though just until I feel comfortable.

Geez, I drop into this thread and everyone's acting like I'm some kind of Guru or God or something...

I'm flattered, but I'm just one guy; only a "fair" dancer, and I have a big mouth and a website! .w.:

So everything I say is MY personal philosophy, blah, blah. Its what works for ME.

This said, the thing about men dancing on the square and women dancing on the diagonal - is, IMHO, pure bunk. I've written reams on the subject, so I won't bore everyone here. That, and all the other artificial barriers that some - mostly men - want to place on male dancers. Angled arms (out of context) aren't "male Belly Dance" - its "ugly Belly Dance" regardless of gender.

I'm firmly in the camp of "I dance like a male because I *am* one, and don't need no stinkin' artificial 'adaptations' ". Even Morocco says (in relation to male dancers): "The dance vocabulary is the dance vocabulary".

Teach him just like any other student - but BEWARE! I was personally given the "nth degree" in questioning by one of my early teachers - and I didn't, and don't, blame her in the least. His desire for privates may be harmless - but it makes alarm bells ring. I'm thinking he should come to a group class at first - although I've also heard of teachers who would ONLY do privates with a male student until they were satisfied he was "legit". Please be careful.

My further blatherings on the subject:

Male Student, Now What?
Getting Started
Male Belly Dancers, Are We Feminine?

Originally Posted by Azhia

Women tend to perform movements or move in 3/4 angles. Men are permitted to hold a more direct, frontal posture and perform movements straight on.

I'm a little confused by this. Do you mean facing the front corners of the stage at a 45 degree angle to the front? If so, it is not done cause it is feminine. It is done so you don't cut off half of your audience, instead of facing sideways at a 90 degree angle.

Originally Posted by zorba

Geez, I drop into this thread and everyone's acting like I'm some kind of Guru or God or something...

I'm flattered, but I'm just one guy; only a "fair" dancer, and I have a big mouth and a website! .w.:

So everything I say is MY personal philosophy, blah, blah. Its what works for ME.

This said, the thing about men dancing on the square and women dancing on the diagonal - is, IMHO, pure bunk. I've written reams on the subject, so I won't bore everyone here. That, and all the other artificial barriers that some - mostly men - want to place on male dancers. Angled arms (out of context) aren't "male Belly Dance" - its "ugly Belly Dance" regardless of gender.

I'm firmly in the camp of "I dance like a male because I *am* one, and don't need no stinkin' artificial 'adaptations' ". Even Morocco says (in relation to male dancers): "The dance vocabulary is the dance vocabulary".

Teach him just like any other student - but BEWARE! I was personally given the "nth degree" in questioning by one of my early teachers - and I didn't, and don't, blame her in the least. His desire for privates may be harmless - but it makes alarm bells ring. I'm thinking he should come to a group class at first - although I've also heard of teachers who would ONLY do privates with a male student until they were satisfied he was "legit". Please be careful.

My further blatherings on the subject:

Male Student, Now What?
Getting Started
Male Belly Dancers, Are We Feminine?

Thanks Zorba..g.: My alarm bells went off over the private lessons as well but I just figured I would bring a "bodyguard" and then there is no reason to worry. My hubby is an infantry soldier so nothing hinky is going to get past him

Is this guy in La? I got the same call from a guy Tuesday - weird request, but he seemed genuine and not totally weird, so my alarm didn't go off...

Originally Posted by AmiraStar

Thanks Zorba..g.: My alarm bells went off over the private lessons as well but I just figured I would bring a "bodyguard" and then there is no reason to worry. My hubby is an infantry soldier so nothing hinky is going to get past him

I don't think asking for privates is alarming. My instructor did this with a couple male students. Its the embarrassment factor. There are things you can do for safety if that is the issue. I would have no problem giving privates for a male student.

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

I'm a little confused by this. Do you mean facing the front corners of the stage at a 45 degree angle to the front? If so, it is not done cause it is feminine. It is done so you don't cut off half of your audience, instead of facing sideways at a 90 degree angle.

I was taught it was because the 45 degree angle presented a more flattering view for the body than a straight on front or profile view (which I actually find is true - I tend to turn that way for pictures as well)

Originally Posted by portiaangel

I was taught it was because the 45 degree angle presented a more flattering view for the body than a straight on front or profile view (which I actually find is true - I tend to turn that way for pictures as well)

That's right - it shows off certain moves to their best advantage too.

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

I don't think asking for privates is alarming. My instructor did this with a couple male students. Its the embarrassment factor. There are things you can do for safety if that is the issue. I would have no problem giving privates for a male student.

Just be careful, that's all. I'm a guy, I know how a lot of us think!

Originally Posted by Marianna

Is this guy in La? I got the same call from a guy Tuesday - weird request, but he seemed genuine and not totally weird, so my alarm didn't go off...

The guy said he was in Ohio but he didn't seem to know where Toledo was in relation to where he was. He said he was visiting for a few weeks and wanted to learn while he was in town. He said he'd call back today to let me know if the dates and times we talked about would work. Said he worked for Gold's Gyms (opening them and doing promotional personal training events)....I just was caught off guard by his request. We'll see if he was genuine or not soon enough.

Keep us posted, AmiraStar.

Marianna, how come these guys never call male dance instructors? LOL!

I've taught men before, several times. It's the 'private lesson' part that makes me curious; I've had men in my classes and it's no big deal.

Originally Posted by samiramirage

Maybe his audience isn't women.

That was my first thought too, actually. The whole "Sultan Style" comment, for one thing....

Originally Posted by portiaangel

I was taught it was because the 45 degree angle presented a more flattering view for the body than a straight on front or profile view (which I actually find is true - I tend to turn that way for pictures as well)

I was also taught that, in Egypt, women doing most their dancing straight forward was intimidating to the audience. As are arms parallel to the ground straight out from the shoulders. . .

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by AmiraStar

The guy said he was in Ohio but he didn't seem to know where Toledo was in relation to where he was. He said he was visiting for a few weeks and wanted to learn while he was in town. He said he'd call back today to let me know if the dates and times we talked about would work. Said he worked for Gold's Gyms (opening them and doing promotional personal training events)....I just was caught off guard by his request. We'll see if he was genuine or not soon enough.

This was important information you left out. IMO this changes a lot of things. I was under the assumption this was a local guy to your city. I would be little more cautious about an out of town-er. Did you ask why he does not take lessons from his home town?