Thread: Posture question

If you stand with your heels against a wall in your best dance posture, what touches the wall? Hips, shoulders, head? Fullest part of the glute (OK, I'll just say butt cheeks) or higher up?

Or do your heels need to be away from the wall?

Working on a posture check for my students & wonder if there's a consensus among dancers!

My heels need to be away from the wall for me to have good posture. Otherwise, my big butt makes me have to arch my back for anything else to touch. If I stand with good posture, heels away from the wall, my butt, shoulders, and head touch.

If I stood with my heels against the wall, I would fall over. I have a booty, and if that's touching the wall, nothing else does *looking in vain for a butt related smiley*

Only my bootie!

My heels have to be slightly away from the wall, too... my shoulder blades (not shoulders) sit flat against the wall, the back of my head, and my tush.... not really at the fullest part, but a little higher.

For me it's the butt and head that touch with my heels 2"-3" away from the wall. My shoulder blades barely graze the wall. I guess that means my head's as big as my butt!

With soft knees: head, shoulders, butt cheeks and heels. But my build is small and wiry so I think that makes a difference.

Rather than stand against a wall, I check that the ear is directly over the shoulder, the shoulder is directly over the hip joint, and the hip is directly over the ankle.Shoulders have to be rolled back and down. Think about the joints, not about the flesh.

I can do it with my heels touching the wall, and my butt, shoulders and head touch. It's a little higher than at the fullest part of my rear end, and my shouders *just* touch the wall.

Another good way to achieve good posture is to squeeze your lats. Your lats attach to your the outside of your shoulder blades and come around the side of your body kind of under your armpits. If you squeeze these muscles (instead of pushing your shoulders and/or shoulder blades down and back) your shoulders automatically come down, your sternum rises, and your head and neck stack correctly. I learned this little trick from my pilates instructor. Try it out! :)

Last week we did standing against the wall with a sports physio to check thorasic and shoulder mobility. Basically heels, butt, shoulders and head; then upper arms parallel to the floor and lower arms vertical and up ie "hands up". The goal was also elbows, wrists and backs of hands on the wall.

Out of a class of teachers only one couldn't get heels, butt, shoulders, and head flat - despite a normal array of female butts - ie unless your butt is really, really big it maybe just postural.

Thanks for your input everyone. I suspected the answers might vary too widely to be useful as a technique checkup. I think Kashmir is right, it may have less to do with differences in our anatomy and more to do with differences in our dance posture!

*shrugs* it was worth a try.

Originally Posted by hannan

Rather than stand against a wall, I check that the ear is directly over the shoulder, the shoulder is directly over the hip joint, and the hip is directly over the ankle.Shoulders have to be rolled back and down. Think about the joints, not about the flesh.

This is an excellent point.

BUT I'm curious how you can tell where the hip joint itself is just by looking at a person's flesh from the side? The joint itself is buried pretty deeply, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell, and the margin for error is huge -- unless there's some trick to it?

I am starting to look at posture more skeletally, though. Tell me what y'all think of this (describing the skeletal alignment of the front of the dancer's torso when viewed from the side):
- Collar bone, front of hipbone and pubic bone all in the same plane
- Lower ribs forward of front of hipbone

I'm observing that if the chest drops/sinks back, the lower ribs move behind the hipbone. In everyday 'good posture,' they're even, and in dance posture the ribs are forward of the hipbone.

The collarbones drop forward of the hipbone, even with or forward of the lower ribs, when slouching.

The pubic bone is behind the hipbones when the pelvis tilts forward.

I don't know if I'm communicating this very clearly. Does it make sense to anyone? Seem true on your body?

Thanks, Lauren. To get a feeling (I think it is okay if it isnt exact) as to where the hip joint is, I have people hold the outside of one hip and dig around the groin (where the leg meets the crotch). The have them lift and lower, turn out and turn in, etc.
Another guideline for the long and lifted posture is chest over toes, hips over heels.
Your description below sounds accurate to me.
Hannan

Originally Posted by Lauren_

This is an excellent point.

BUT I'm curious how you can tell where the hip joint itself is just by looking at a person's flesh from the side? The joint itself is buried pretty deeply, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell, and the margin for error is huge -- unless there's some trick to it?

I am starting to look at posture more skeletally, though. Tell me what y'all think of this (describing the skeletal alignment of the front of the dancer's torso when viewed from the side):
- Collar bone, front of hipbone and pubic bone all in the same plane
- Lower ribs forward of front of hipbone

When I put my heels against the wall- nothing else touches.
A) I don't have much of a butt to speak of ,f::
B) There are a few specific steps I do with my weight centered or, even on my heels, but my dance posture is typically w/ my weight towards the ball of my feet, pelvis neutral, rib-cage lifted and forward, shoulders back and down, neck long...

So I'm also inclined to say that any *test* may not well-assess someones posture...

Your heels shouldn't touch the wall, because doing so throws off the rest of your alignment. As Kashmir said, it can be a good flexibility exercise to press as much of your back against the wall as possible. However, it's not a good dance posture.

Also, if your butt is touching the wall, your back/shoulders should NOT be. Too many belly dancers hold their rib cages too far back - I think it's a combination of too much copying of the old Turkish style (which DID hold the rib cage lagging behind the pelvis) and too little knowledge of the technique of proper centering. The rib cage needs to be a little forward in order for your back to be aligned and the center of gravity to be solid and secure. Study old videos of Samia Gamal and Tahia Carioca for an example of good posture.

Holding your rib cage too far back places too much weight on your heels, not enough on the center and forward part of your foot. It makes you wobble when you try to spin, and makes you unsteady instead of crisp when you're changing direction. And, most importantly, it can cause back pain.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Holding your rib cage too far back places too much weight on your heels, not enough on the center and forward part of your foot. It makes you wobble when you try to spin, and makes you unsteady instead of crisp when you're changing direction. And, most importantly, it can cause back pain.

I danced this way for YEARS, thinking 'good dance posture' was the same thing as 'good everyday posture.' It also shortens your torso & makes your ribcage look dropped & lets your shoulders round forward.

The posture I'm aiming for these days is similar to what Perizaad describes, though my butt lightly touches.

[QUOTE=perizaad;33219]When I put my heels against the wall- nothing else touches.
A) I don't have much of a butt to speak of ,f::
B) There are a few specific steps I do with my weight centered or, even on my heels, but my dance posture is typically w/ my weight towards the ball of my feet, pelvis neutral, rib-cage lifted and forward, shoulders back and down, neck long...
QUOTE]

ditto for me. I do have a smallish butt, but even if it were a bit bigger it would still not touch the wall.

I was kind of surprised to not see more responses like this one? hmm.

[QUOTE=elisagamal;33472]

Originally Posted by perizaad

When I put my heels against the wall- nothing else touches.
A) I don't have much of a butt to speak of ,f::
B) There are a few specific steps I do with my weight centered or, even on my heels, but my dance posture is typically w/ my weight towards the ball of my feet, pelvis neutral, rib-cage lifted and forward, shoulders back and down, neck long...
QUOTE]

ditto for me. I do have a smallish butt, but even if it were a bit bigger it would still not touch the wall.

I was kind of surprised to not see more responses like this one? hmm.

Could you have a swayback posture ie shoulders behind the center line and butt forward? This also means you'll be hanging off you hip flexors. If so, it is not an ideal posture for dance - or general living.

I would agree that this sounds like swayback posture-I used to have one! This can be caused by many things, but isn't too hard for a good bodyworker to fix. Mine was caused by arches that were too high, which then tensed very deep muscles in the glute area (don't remember the name-bodyworkers always call them the "deep six") so it was basically impossible for me to align my pelvis properly! It only took a few sessions, but I could tell the difference every week in class-I looked like I had been practicing for hours at home =)