Thread: I'm so unhappy

I just can't find a class that fits.

At the end of my first year, the teacher said I couldn't go up to Advanced, i needed 6 months more in beginners, and she supposed she could try to layer her provision. She didn't do intermediates and she didn't have a class suitable.

I declined, went elsewhere and that lady finished within 3 months to have a baby. So I finished the year with an Egyptian lady who puts on shows and doesn't do technique. But at least that taught me more about learning choreos (which might have been the real issue with the first teacher though she never said)

September came round, I thought I was getting back with teacher 2 but I don't think she was ready, so in November I signed up for the first teacher's Level 1 (up from beginners) thinking it was meant to bridge beginners and Advanced. In the meantime, I have also been practising about an hour most days.

When I got into the class there were a couple of people in it who just thought they didn't want to be beginners. I was bored again. I was told that teacher's responsibility wasn't to me (who had signed up for "corrrect" course) but that these others had also paid for the class and she was responsible for making sure that they got what they paid for.

I thought we had reached an agreement where I would get more feedback (she usually does group feedback where she says we need to practice x because some of you ............ and then she eventually sys much better to the air.) but for the last 2 weeks, I have felt invisible, even when once we were trying a new move and i have no idea if it was correct.

then last week we were going up and down the hall practising egyptian walk (3/4 shimmy) and when she said those of you who have got it help someone else, the girls who haven't got it prefer to discuss amongst themselves how to do it rather than have help. I felt that I wasn't even there. I came home and cried with frustation.

In case you think that I'm probably overestimating my own abilities, a couple of other dancers have said that I'm good or at least capable ie teacher 2 and someone else who's opinion I respect.

I have paid for theese classes until june (adult ed) but I don't care about the money. If I knew where to go I would. I practice lots to dvvds - but I know I need live teacher for feedback but that's the point, I'm not getting any.

what do I do now?????

I'm sorry you're feeling so frustrated. To be honest, from all you've said over the last few months, it comes as no surprise.

It sounds like you've tried all your local teachers, and if you want to take your dancing any further, you're going to have to cast your net wider. Fortunately there does seem to be quite a lot of teachers operating in your county (yeah, it's a big county, I know!)
Check out Arabic dance classes in the UK
And talk to the teachers before you sign up, to make sure you know what they offer.

There are good teachers out there, but sometimes you have to travel a bit to find them!

Firstly, nothing is worth huge amounts of stress or erosion of the self esteem. It's difficult to give honest advice having not seen you dance. Getting some regular private lessons, with honest constructive feedback, where you have to travel a little further might help.

I do sympathise as I left my weekly class after 6 years as my teacher was having to cope with as that eternal influx of beginners. She also didn't have enough of us to start a more advanced class (what the hell is that,r:;..there's a handful of advanced dancers in this country!)
I left with 2 other dancers and we now belong to a troupe.
Then I started to teach after being asked by FE college. The next year on I was able to split the class into 2 sep. hours but the students just progressed by experience not ability. I was happy with that as they were still of course beginners and so we had beg.1 and beg.2 NOT improver NOT intermediate and certainly not advanced. I would have hated to have to tell a less able student she had to "stay down".
When the outreach colleges were closed, I started to work for a college in the next town and I mix some students in their third year with those of a few weeks. It is possible...you can show those more experienced students how to adapt, layer, combine the basic moves you are showing the new beginners. You can devise different degrees of complexity in choreographies,having students playing different roles, taking leads etc. But I am surprised at any teacher getting students to assist in an FE situation. I can't see colleges liking that. Demonstrate, held up as an example but no more than that.
Believe me...yourteacher will have to demonstrate differentiationif she works for FE and the ability to teach mixed ability. We are inspected, we have lesson plans to prepare, have to belong to organisations, questioned about our professional development. Luckily I had done all this in a previous life..g.: including teaching kids with wildly different grasps of the curriculum.
teaching mixed ability is never gonna be easy but it's certainly possible. And as a teacher of 4 years and dancer of 12 years I sure as hell will never teach "advanced " students.
When you ( and I mean any prospective student )find a class, question your teacher's background . If she is employed you can ask her employers. You can always ask to sample a class before you pay. If you need to query anything with your teacher please ask her as an individual not n front of the class.
remember that out of every intake (say every 10 weeks) a teacher will only keep onto to maybe 3,4,5 and she will have to balance those needs with 10 newbies who may or may not stay and she also has to balance the funsters, the keep-fitters with the demanding obsessives like ourselves.
You have to talk to through with teacher .A teacher fits her lesson to meet the needs of her students and has to bear in mind that they are not an indeterminate mass but a bunch of individuals.

Privates?

Even if you have to drive for them.

In your shoes. I think I'd look for a teacher within a 2-hour drive in any direction who would give me a monthly private lesson with the idea of giving me lots of feedback. Then I'd continue my regular weekly classes and/or DVD instruction in between, with the intention of applying what I'm learning from the privates. (often the feedback you'll get will be about posture, arms, head carriage, body mechanics, and there are loads of ways to apply that new awareness while drilling beginner stuff).

Egyptian walk or 3/4 shimmy is NOT a beginner move, so the class you're in IS working at a higher level than beginner . I don't introduce it until level 3 in my classes.

I concur with Lauren, 3/4 shimmy is not a beginner move. I don't introduce that til my level 2 class.

I really sympathise... I didn't get much in the way of feedback for the first two years and it was very frustrating! I remember the revelation of going to my first workshop where the teacher gave me a thousand yard stare and said 'no... i need you to be doing it like this' and went on to explain exactly where i was going wrong.. it was a revelation!
also I live in an area of the country where teachers above beginner/Improver level are pretty much non-existent. so i spend my time and money on weekend workshops and going to the JWWAD summer school instead and advise my students to do the same if they can, there's only so much they can get from me...
I really hope you find what you need, there are lots of fabulous teachers out there xxx
ps. re beginner/not beginner in moves, that can be an individual thing...I have had students who could hagalla beautifully in a few weeks but are still working on circles and eights after a couple of years and vice versa...we all have our strengths, teaching should help us to capitalise on them as well as working on our weak points xxx

It's a pity you don't live closer to Manchester. I've been running a mixed ability class very successfully for the past 13 years. In the hour and a half I teach this, I manage to give individual attention to everybody, and also hold the attention of both beginners, intermediate and advanced students simply by not being too structured with the tuition and content of the class. It varies every week, so nobody ever gets bored. I've produced professional dancers from this class, and also teachers, so I must be doing something right. I think, often, dance teachers are not that knowledgeable, and therefore 'structure' their classes to the point that they exclude people like yourself. I also run an advanced workshop each month for those who want to push themselves out of the comfort zone.

I guess you just have to keep looking and hoping that you will find a teacher who is right for you.

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

I concur with Lauren, 3/4 shimmy is not a beginner move. I don't introduce that til my level 2 class.

This particular teacher introduces "egyptian walk" in the beginner level choreo that you are expected to perform by week 18 (maybe because there is one particular musical phrase for which egyptian walk is compulsory!!)

the fact that she is still teaching it to students who haven't got it the previous year however, would suggest that you are right!!!

The first dance for this year was a drum solo that she had performed for Hossam Ramzy on some course (she's been dancing for 14 years). We never finished this one but are now doing something that has 32 hip hits as an opener.

my opinion is that she has decided that learning egyptian dance is something that takes years, therefore students in the early years by definition can't do moves perfectly, so whatever she teaches, it doesn't matter cos we won't get it.

the only time she has ever said anything nice about my dancing it went just because you can move a bit it doesn't mean that you understand arabic music!!!

so I am looking for a private teacher. I am also going to workshops, but of course you can't expect feedback and I know my faults, so I know I am not getting any feedback on them.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

.
Believe me...yourteacher will have to demonstrate differentiationif she works for FE and the ability to teach mixed ability.

well when she is inspected we have a wildly exciting class in which we are pushed to the limit - even the warm up isn't the every week standard. And all those who are struggling will testify that she helps them catch up.

maybe my technique in the class situation isn't that great. I do have issues with co-ordination when I'm under pressure, which for me isn't an improv performance!!! BUT I wouldn't know as I've asked for feedback, but this is non-existant again.

to put this into perspective, I went to classes with someone who saw me free dance at a night club and was wildly complimentary about my potential. I then had one private with her ten months later, after I had not been able to find a teacher, and screwed up big time coldn't follow the beat with a simple combo. she is now looking for dancers to set up a troupe, but has told a friend (not me, the rat) that i need more practice on my technique. BUT no one will help me get any better, or more consistent etc.

I'm being advised by friends to reign in my ambition, to dance for fun, for the social life. I can only reply that it isn't fun to dance with people who aren't interested enough in the dance to work on doing it properly. yes I am getting a work out, as it is my only form of exercise, but if I thought I was never going to get the chance to improve, wold I want to continue??

I would love to come to JOY so you can see how I dance, and tell me if I'm wasting my time.

the only time she has ever said anything nice about my dancing it went just because you can move a bit it doesn't mean that you understand arabic music!!!


Holy crap. Did she really say that? What a less than polite thing to say. As a generalization, it's probably true for alot of us, alas, but otherwise it's just not nice.

Why would you PAY MONEY to be insulted [unless you are talking to the maitre d' at a fancy French restaurant, of course, where it is absolutely part of the experience].

In any case, not everyone who gives lessons is a good teacher.

Yes! Come to JOY ! It will likely be helpful for the fun and classes and inclusive warm vibe

Originally Posted by jencUK

well when she is inspected we have a wildly exciting class in which we are pushed to the limit - even the warm up isn't the every week standard. And all those who are struggling will testify that she helps them catch up.

maybe my technique in the class situation isn't that great. I do have issues with co-ordination when I'm under pressure, which for me isn't an improv performance!!! BUT I wouldn't know as I've asked for feedback, but this is non-existant again.

to put this into perspective, I went to classes with someone who saw me free dance at a night club and was wildly complimentary about my potential. I then had one private with her ten months later, after I had not been able to find a teacher, and screwed up big time coldn't follow the beat with a simple combo. she is now looking for dancers to set up a troupe, but has told a friend (not me, the rat) that i need more practice on my technique. BUT no one will help me get any better, or more consistent etc.

I'm being advised by friends to reign in my ambition, to dance for fun, for the social life. I can only reply that it isn't fun to dance with people who aren't interested enough in the dance to work on doing it properly. yes I am getting a work out, as it is my only form of exercise, but if I thought I was never going to get the chance to improve, wold I want to continue??

I would love to come to JOY so you can see how I dance, and tell me if I'm wasting my time.

Originally Posted by jencUK

I would love to come to JOY so you can see how I dance, and tell me if I'm wasting my time.

I would say that seeing you dance would not be a judgement if your waisting your time learning. What I would determine is if your waisting your time with that instructor.

Every one learns at a different rate so ease up on yourself. There is no race to become a performer. Just dedication and time to practice will get you where you want to be. I get the feeling from your post you are interested in becoming a performer.

I like what I've read from your posts. Learning properly is you priority and a applaud you for that. There are too many who are not interested in taking the time to learn things properly. They are more interested in putting on a pretty costume and look good.

I hope and wish you much success in find the right instructor for you.

Originally Posted by jencUK

well when she is inspected we have a wildly exciting class in which we are pushed to the limit - even the warm up isn't the every week standard. And all those who are struggling will testify that she helps them catch up.

maybe my technique in the class situation isn't that great. I do have issues with co-ordination when I'm under pressure, which for me isn't an improv performance!!! BUT I wouldn't know as I've asked for feedback, but this is non-existant again.

to put this into perspective, I went to classes with someone who saw me free dance at a night club and was wildly complimentary about my potential. I then had one private with her ten months later, after I had not been able to find a teacher, and screwed up big time coldn't follow the beat with a simple combo. she is now looking for dancers to set up a troupe, but has told a friend (not me, the rat) that i need more practice on my technique. BUT no one will help me get any better, or more consistent etc.

I'm being advised by friends to reign in my ambition, to dance for fun, for the social life. I can only reply that it isn't fun to dance with people who aren't interested enough in the dance to work on doing it properly. yes I am getting a work out, as it is my only form of exercise, but if I thought I was never going to get the chance to improve, wold I want to continue??

I would love to come to JOY so you can see how I dance, and tell me if I'm wasting my time.

an exciting class doesn't make for handling differentiation...a basic class would be safer dumbing down to what every student could do!!!..g.:
She obviously went for the whizz bang effect..ooo look aren't they all having fun.
If you are not being taught anything, she is wasting your time and money. It sounds to me as if she has a host of funsters and she is catering for them and people like us are a bloody nuisance in that situation. And when we express our desire to be challenged, we are somewhat of a challenge.
Her comment about you and Arabic music was unforgiveable and defensive and it strikes me that she feels she has a student she cannot or will not cater for. You have to move on.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Her comment about you and Arabic music was unforgiveable and defensive and it strikes me that she feels she has a student she cannot or will not cater for. You have to move on.

It''s my guess she can't, rather than won't. Her own limitations are affecting this here. The very defensiveness is a dead giveaway...and what is defensiveness but a form of attack, and you have questioned her competence by wanting and needing more. Yes, move on...and keep moving on until you get what you need.

Gosh I feel for you...sounds like what I was having to put up with...my teacher (who have since left) was another for introducing the Egyptian walk (3/4 shimmy) to her beginner students in like week 11, but suprisingly we all mostly got it straight away. As soon as we had done 20 weeks with her she started calling us her advanced class...yeah right.

I can definitely empathise with the going home so frustrated and actually getting upset over it. I've been there too...and sick of paying money to just be bored and "dance by numbers" to uninspired and very basic dances. And also having concerns ignored completely. Which is very frustrating.

I am much happier now since I have quit, I may miss the social aspect of classes, but I'm no longer playing to feel frustrated and ignored.

It may seem a scary step (and it worried me at first) but moving on to new pastures may be best for you.

Originally Posted by smileandshake

my teacher (who have since left) was another for introducing the Egyptian walk (3/4 shimmy) to her beginner students in like week 11, but suprisingly we all mostly got it straight away. As soon as we had done 20 weeks with her she started calling us her advanced class...yeah right..

The Egyptian walk is a strange one, in that most people consider it an advanced move. But, there are those, even beginners, who pick this move up almost instantly. I was one of them. Funnily enough, I struggled more with very simple figure 8s, which took me nearly 4 months to learn. So, it's horses for courses. I would definitely introduce the EW to beginners fairly early on. In my experience, it does them absolutely no harm and as I've said, some get it first or second time. I teach a mixed ability class, so the latter part of the lesson involves more advanced moves anyway, and I've never, ever had a beginner complain about this section. They just enjoy doing what they can or staying with the more basic moves they've already learned.

hmmm.. what I was saying here might not have been relevant. Sorry.

Originally Posted by kharis_UK

The Egyptian walk is a strange one, in that most people consider it an advanced move. But, there are those, even beginners, who pick this move up almost instantly. I was one of them. Funnily enough, I struggled more with very simple figure 8s, which took me nearly 4 months to learn. So, it's horses for courses. I would definitely introduce the EW to beginners fairly early on. In my experience, it does them absolutely no harm and as I've said, some get it first or second time. I teach a mixed ability class, so the latter part of the lesson involves more advanced moves anyway, and I've never, ever had a beginner complain about this section. They just enjoy doing what they can or staying with the more basic moves they've already learned.

Drifting off topic but....
I picked up a 3/4 shimmy way fast as well. It just made sense to me. I could also freeze shimmy. The hardest for me are flutters and a nice loose calm shimmy. Go figure.

As to your instructor issues......the advice you are getting here is good. Not every teacher is for every student. I am sorry that it has been so frustrating and hopefully the second teacher that it sounds like you really enjoyed will be back soon. I think that privates for feedback once a month until she is ready to go again is probably best.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

hmmm.. what I was saying here might not have been relevant. Sorry.

it was very relevant. and very wise, as usual.

Thanks, Wingaki.