Thread: newbie question...learning to love zills?

I'm inspired by the beginner threads on the other forum. I'm sorry if I'm posting a repetitive question!

I've been dancing for 2 1/2 years, and over that time, we haven't done too much with zills in our class. (I did buy a nice pair when I first started, per my teacher's suggestion.) When we do use zills, I find them distracting. I rather dislike playing them, but I know that I need to learn to use them. I've tried practicing outside of class with my rhythm CD, but I inevitably end up taking them off and dancing instead. ..l;,

Other than purchasing a DVD to practice with, are there any suggested techniques for learning to love my zills? Thanks bunches!

Well, no, I can't help with that. But what I can do is reassure you that it's not NECESSARY to love them!

Outside of one popular style of dance that I can think of right now (American Cabaret) and one obscure style (Ghawazee) they're not considered essential. Lots of master dancers don't play them at all.

I don't play them well. I taught myself just enough to give my students some basic instruction. Which may be the case with your teacher, too, if you don't use them in class much. I have a couple of students who've been inspired to pursue them beyond my teaching, and I referred them to resources (local and DVD).

I leave zills to those who love them, and appreciate them when well-played. But like you, I just find them frustrating and distracting.

On the other hand, I always tell my students 'you'll never be able to do anything that you aren't willing to do badly at first' and playing badly isn't fun. I can imagine that if you're determined to learn, it will get more fun once you push past the initial frustration.

I can play very well the couple of rhythms and choreos that I teach with them, and those are fun for me to do. No so fun that I'm inspired to go further with it, though.

So my advice is sell them on Bhuz and get something that's more inspiring to you -- a silk veil, or some fan veils, or wings or a sword...

Originally Posted by Sitara9

I'm inspired by the beginner threads on the other forum. I'm sorry if I'm posting a repetitive question!

I've been dancing for 2 1/2 years, and over that time, we haven't done too much with zills in our class. (I did buy a nice pair when I first started, per my teacher's suggestion.) When we do use zills, I find them distracting. I rather dislike playing them, but I know that I need to learn to use them. I've tried practicing outside of class with my rhythm CD, but I inevitably end up taking them off and dancing instead. ..l;,

Other than purchasing a DVD to practice with, are there any suggested techniques for learning to love my zills? Thanks bunches!

Purchasing a DVD with zills is a great idea. Another idea is wearing the zills while improving dance (or your basic drills) at home. Make it a goal to click them along with the music, even if it's only one ding at the end of every four measures or so.

I don't recommend zilling for more than a few minutes at a time at first. It's better to pull them out every day for 5-15 minutes, rather than tire yourself out with an hour once every week or two. And if the sound is annoying/too loud? Try baby socks.

I second Lauren's idea of focusing just on a couple of rhythms. When you focus on one rhythm for a long time, that's when it becomes easy. When you can change the zills with the music (stop, start, switch patterns), then it becomes fun!

Mesmera's Finger Cymbals video and Ansuya's zill videos have very different approaches, but both are very good. Mesmera's is more creative, more playing music-oriented - there's not so much dance instruction. Ansuya gets you up and dancing particular moves while playing, and really drills it so that you are confident about playing zills while dancing.

But as Lauren says, zills aren't everyone's thing, even if you can play them pretty well. IMO, the dance should always come first.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

But what I can do is reassure you that it's not NECESSARY to love them!

Outside of one popular style of dance that I can think of right now (American Cabaret) and one obscure style (Ghawazee) they're not considered essential. Lots of master dancers don't play them at all.

Bite your tongue, woman. We need to convert more people to the I LOVE MY ZILLS side! ..g.:

Okay, all kidding aside, and I had zills put into my hands in my very first class by a Turkish based teacher, one of the things which helped me was to get an iPod, fill it with ME music, put it on shuffle, and go find some place where I could walk for about an hour and just practice. This was not my idea, but it really helped! (If you have a beach or river walk, this is a good place to practice. You won't scare small children or animals that way.)

Good luck! And have fun!

{{{HUGS}}}

Thank you, ladies! I really appreciate the reassurances and suggestions. :D

Depending on what you want to do with your dance and what style, you don't need to learn them.

I think you have a good beginning by getting nice zills. By nice, do you mean that you enjoy how they sound? Getting zills you like the sound of will motivate you to play or at least take away excuses to not play. They all sound different, and some of them I couldn't stand hearing for very long.

I think when I really discovered I like zills is watching people who play well. I love watching and hearing a good zill player. Perhaps you'll discover you like them after all?

I'm not great at playing them, but I think they're fun and definitely worthwhile to learn.

As someone who frequently ended up in tears while trying to learn, I feel your pain. But I will say this, mastering zills at any level will feel like such an accomplishment.

With my first teacher, they were a requirement for performing (she was AmCab all the way) so I had to learn them and at some point I learned to love them. If you don't have a teacher with a zill program I think DVDs are probably the next best thing. I have friends who tried the book route and aren't having much success. I know there are people who do workshops; there might be one in your area.

never mind. Just double checked th site and it looks as though it has been semi abandoned. Many of the links lead no where. . .

{{{{HUGS}}}

There is another thread in progress right now regarding the importance of teaching students about the music, and people on that thread are generally agreeing that students *should* be taught about the music.

Learning to play finger cymbals is an excellent way to really LEARN to feel the music with your body. If you can *create* the music (by playing your finger cymbals), you'll feel a more intimate relationship with the music, and that in tern will make you a better dancer whether you actually play the finger cymbals while performing or not.

I always start my students on learning finger cymbals about the third day of class - even the really really new beginners. Of course, everyone is very frustrated at how difficult it is to play and move at the same time. That's completely normal. But after about 3-4 weeks of working with them in class and practicing in between, people start feeling as if it just might be possible to learn them. After 6 months, people tend to be reasonably comfortable playing them at a beginner level.

I think the key is to give yourself permission to feel completely inept for a while, and laugh about it when you make silly mistakes.

Here's what I do to help my students learn them: I choreograph cymbal effects to go with the choreographed dance they are learning in class. This way, once they memorize which cymbal pattern to play with which part of the choreography, they can just play it, without having to stress about what to play next. If you're not learning a choreography in class, perhaps you could create cymbal effects to go with some of the step combinations you're learning. Let me know if you'd like me to suggest a couple of simple ones.

Bhuzzer Anthea has some beginer zill instructional clips on youtube, you can find one in this thread and link to the others from there:
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...ip-online.html

I am mostly self-taught, and love my zills. There is hope for almost everybody, even those who start with no sense of rhythm. I am living proof ;-)

1. Get a set that works for you - sound and shape/weight are important. You may hve to re-sell more than one set in the process, but that's OK - it took me forever to find zills that I like and enjoy practicing with. Getting a smaller and lower pitched first set is probably good.

2. Practice, practice, practice: iPod and practice tape, and walk around, playing along. For me, Jamila Salimpour's zills CD worked very well - don't expect to master everything, and certainly not during the first month, but it will come. Once you can walk to the grocery store, through traffic, play your zills, and cross a busy intersection againt the light, you 've made it ;-)

oh god, once again i sit screaming at the screen.2 AND A HALF YEARS OF STEPS W/OUT ZILLS?
why oh why.so what if you do not like them, at least know them.IT IS PART OF IT ALL!
if you were here, they would have been in your hands the 3rd lesson!!!!!
personally, i do not care what you are a MASTER in, there are many parts to this art!!...i do not like performing tray, or cane....BUT I KNOW AND TEACH BOTH !!!!

We always talk about the importance of using middle eastern music, but this is a time when using something different can be helpful.

I hated zils for a long time. When I first got the zils even a simple R-L-R took a lot of thought b/c I totally lacked the coordination. My teacher was not kind about it either. So with her screaming at me and the newness of the rhythms, I felt defeated.

But I wanted to get them, so I started out by playing to the music I already knew and could relate to (Bon Jovi and Guns n Roses being among my favorites for this exercise). The reason for this is that they were slower, simpler, and I already knew them. They were helpful to build up strength and consistency. There was nothing new or intimidating about the music and b/c I chose fun rockout music, it was party time.

Once I learned that yes, I can do that, I was able to move on to the appropriate belly dance music and while still a challenge, it was one I could handle.

Zils are fun to let loose with, good luck!

Originally Posted by zamora

oh god, once again i sit screaming at the screen.2 AND A HALF YEARS OF STEPS W/OUT ZILLS?
why oh why.so what if you do not like them, at least know them.IT IS PART OF IT ALL!
if you were here, they would have been in your hands the 3rd lesson!!!!!
personally, i do not care what you are a MASTER in, there are many parts to this art!!...i do not like performing tray, or cane....BUT I KNOW AND TEACH BOTH !!!!

Cory, I know, this is a subject that gets your blood boiling! But in deference to Sitara, it's not her fault if her teacher does not teach zills. (As you are a killer ziller, any suggestions for her on learning zills?)

And I'm so happy that Sitara is posting her question so she can learn! My advice is to not be afraid of them, put them on and play - so what if you mess up or it sounds awful, no one says you have to be perfect the first time. Get used to playing them and the sound and feel of them and you will improve. I found, the less I was afraid of them and felt awkward, the easier it was for me to learn.

Oh - and this made me feel better - Ansuya told us during a workshop that she hated zills when she first started playing them, and she felt awkward and ugly and it sounded terrible.

So, hey, there is hope for us all!!!!

phillyraqs....that is hell a funny ! ansuyas mom was my main teacher, then coach.we never had zills off !
if i have a strudent who can not reduse the step to 3 words in time to the music, and work r l r into the rythem, i tell them to walk, ever step gets a right left right!

I am not a natural zill player (that's an understatement) and I really had to get past many months/years of hating them before I could enjoy them. For me, it took my students wanting to learn to play zills, and me not wanting to embarrass myself in front of my students, to motivate me to practice enough. If you're like me, it will take many weeks or months of everyday practice - because you have to program your body to play the darned things when they just don't want to.

My method consisted of practicing triplets to music, not moving; slowly adding in a really simple step (like a hip bump); graduating to step-tap or similar basic travelling step(at which point, I'd have to go back to playing one triplet then resting, one triplet then resting); gradually introducing more prolonged playing and difficult steps. It was hugely frustrating...not least for my housemate.

But the great thing is, now I can actually dance with the things! And I really feel that adds to my performance, especially when I want to create a bit of noise to beef up my presence. Plus they seem to impress most GP audiences, so that's a bonus. So it is possible to go from hating zills to liking them (love? Not so sure)

Lucky for me, here in Australia very few dancers actually play zills. At best, we'll play basic triplets for part of our routine. The only dancers I've seen playing music with their zills were visiting from America!

(Ed: by 'playing music' I mean using the zills as an instrument, playing varied rhythms)

I appreciate the advice so very much!

Zamora, my teacher is actually an excellent zills player. There are a few choreographies that we use zills in, but we just don't use them on a regular basis. (One of the women in my class is already a killer ziller from previous classes, and the rest of us are rather new to them.) I'm sorry that my question upset you so much.

My teacher actually told us that we're going to start incorporating zills more this year; hence, my asking questions about bettering my skills with them. I know that I need the outside practice! The zills that I have do make a nice sound, and they're not too heavy...we just need to improve our working relationship. ;)

I'm going to have to make a list of things to try now. :) Thank you again!

ooo, not upset, just ever the zill warrior! thank you for the concern! lolol
now, go zill!
all my step dvd's include zills .

Get zill mufflers or use baby socks...and then keep at it. If you supplement your education with any dvd practice sessions...put your zills on for them.

Originally Posted by zamora

phillyraqs....that is hell a funny ! ansuyas mom was my main teacher, then coach.we never had zills off !

I know, isn't that funny? Apparently, Ansuya never used finger cymbals until she was 12 and then her mom introduced them to her and from that point she had to use them. Ansuya said those first few months were torture, after growing up all her (short) life dancing without zills and then not being able to move without them!

Sitara, if you decide to go the DVD route, I really like Michelle Joyce's (I think it's called Killer Ziller).

My advice is not to sit down and practice -- I made that mistake when I was first learning, and I can zill like a madwoman but never got as comfortable dancing with them as I'd like. Stand up, get your hands out away from your body, and start at least walking around the room as quickly as possible!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Well, no, I can't help with that. But what I can do is reassure you that it's not NECESSARY to love them!

Agree and its not necessary to learn them, unless your my student. ..l;,

Whatever I do, I have to lock up the cats first...they're awfully nutty when the zills come out. ..l;,

..l;,..l;,..l;, Definitely my kind of teacher!

Regards
Priscilla

Originally Posted by AngelaDiCaprio

Agree and its not necessary to learn them, unless your my student. ..l;,

I'm with the majority of replies here - zills are optional - depending on your style. I think they are used a lot in the US - so why not come over to NZ? (In my classes students do more - and better - cane than zills)

However, if you want to learn I'd start just with the RLR RLR pattern (which I'd always called triplets but as the timing is 1&2 3&4 I believe they are misnamed). Practice a little often - just a few minutes a day - but several times a week. From day one walk with them (at least) - 1&step 3&step. At the start it will look horrible - my students call it the Frankenstein walk. As your speed increases you will look more natural. You might consider it as a part of your daily walk - but avoid dogs - they hate them.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Learning to play finger cymbals is an excellent way to really LEARN to feel the music with your body. If you can *create* the music (by playing your finger cymbals), you'll feel a more intimate relationship with the music, and that in tern will make you a better dancer whether you actually play the finger cymbals while performing or not.

That's exactly what I was going to say. I don't necessarily use zills that often in performance, but I consider it an important part of my dance training to have learned them and to continue practicing with them.

I know my own zilling improved when I started working on a couple of pieces of music that I loved and which were appropriate for zilling. The fact that I knew the music pretty well meant that I didn't have to worry that much about what my body was doing while I concentrated on the zills. Both pieces of music were baladi songs, which often traditionally include zills.

Another reason to choose a piece of music that you really love is that by playing the zills, you can feel like you are being part of the music--think of it like singing along to the radio in the car, only instead of driving a car you are dancing, and instead of singing you are using zills. ..g.:

My teacher told us the other day "you will never be a "real" bellydancer until you play zills". This really hurt because I love dancing but I hate zills. I have a set but can't play them and don't really have a desire to. The dance is difficult enough for me. I have to use all my concentration to dance - I don't have any brain power left over for zills. I'm also not real keen on they way they sound. I don't get how they enhance the music - most of the time it just sounds like someone is playing them for the heck of it with no regard to the music. (Ok, granted - I have no musical background and can't even count music so maybe it's just me).

I'm glad a few of you at least support those of us who don't have the musical aptitude for zills - Thanks Lauren!

ita that is its uber-important to learn zills, regardless of your "style". why lock yourself into one "style". who knows what will be popular in the future? you want to remain marketable and relevant.

i know this thread is focused on students, but the gp usually expects zilling in restaurant venues. remember when if you couldn't zill you couldn't work? that's how the armenian cafe is here in s.d.

as a student, you never know how you will progress in this dance and what opportunities may arise. why cut your opportunities by not learning to zill? once you get good at zilling, you may change your opinion

I'm not someone who is blessed with musical talents, but learning to zill I feel has improved my dancing and my understanding of the music. It is much easier for me to pick up what the music is doing and understand how the music works and I don't think I would have that understanding if I didn't know how to zill.

I would encourage any dancer to learn how to play zills. If a dancer doesn't want to incorporate it into his/her actual dancing, that's fine. But I think people should at least have a basic knowledge of what they are. I, personally, didn't enjoy veil work or watching veil work until I learned how to do it well. Now it's still not my favorite prop, but I'm much more appreciative of it than I used to be.

It would be so much easier to learn it as you go, rather than to wait until you've been dancing for years and turn around and try to learn it then.