Thread: Workshop curiosity?

Hi all,

I'm outing myself a bit on this one! I find that when I go to a larger workshop (teacher onstage, big crowd) I have a hard time following along. I do learn things and practice them later, but while at the workshop I'm sure I look a bit odd. I've had better luck in workshops where the teacher comes around to have a look. Anyone else have this issue?

I, too, have this issue. I like to take things home and mull them over -- beating them into submission. I generally have a hard time keeping up/following along in a quick-passed crowded workshop. I prefer to try and get some notes so I can make sure I have something to work on when I leave.

Absolutely!! I prefer smaller crowds and personal attention (at least some). This is why I stopped going to Ahlan wa Sahlan in Cairo, way too many people in the classes and too many egos rushing to the front and not being curtious enough to even go to the back if the instructor says to change lines. I don't pay all that money for that! Some instructors don't even change lines unless you mention it to them. So if a big workshop is taught well I am fine, but with the typical instructor on the stage, no mirrors and fighting to be in the front row, no thank you! Mahmoud Reda, Mohammed Kazafy, and Farida Fahmy (to name a few) are very skilled at teaching big workshops. They do drills in lines at a time so everybody can see and they can see everybody and give some feedback.

Yep -- I say I need "jell time" for things to jell in my head. At the actual workshop, I usually look braindead.

I don't have this problem - I can follow the bouncing butt fairly well, even at a distance - but I have another problem. I get utterly exhausted doing anyone else's workshop. It's wierd, I can teach 3 hours in a row no problems. But as soon as I'm learning someone else's stuff I am knackered. I can barely manage 2 hours! I know better than to sign up for a whole day of workshops, because after the first one (or even during that) my brain doesn't absorb anything.

Why is that? I hate looking stupid and unfit!

Jewel - I get you on the all-day workshops. I don't get physically tired, but my brain eventually wants to go have a conversation. ..g.: It's too bad, too, because I feel like I look like I'm not dedicated enough.

As far as following the bouncing butt, I think my brain just works differently. It is more of the watch/learn/process type, which isn't an instantaneous thing. I'm more like aziyade in that sense!

I don't get much out of the workshop if there are tons of people there as bellydancewear mentions, and I'm more like Lissa- take home and process.

The tough part is that workshops are a good networking thing...but how does that work when you are that kind of learner?

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

It's too bad, too, because I feel like I look like I'm not dedicated enough.

As far as following the bouncing butt, I think my brain just works differently. It is more of the watch/learn/process type, which isn't an instantaneous thing. I'm more like aziyade in that sense!

The tough part is that workshops are a good networking thing...but how does that work when you are that kind of learner?

Yeh, that's a tough thing, isn't it? You don't want to appear untalented amongst your peers, but want the opportunity to mingle and learn new content. I have noticed locally that some dancers never take workshops, and subsequently don't develop much as dancers. I think for some, this is because they don't learn well in the workshop environment and don't want to struggle in front of their peers. For me, I'd rather look like a fool and accept that than not learn anything new. On balance, if I can teach well and perform well amongst my peers, then I think the overall impression I give should be positive! And if not, too bad, my students and gig clients who should benefit from my new-found knowledge are what counts.

But on the other hand, I think it's good to know your learning style and limitations and go for workshops that suit that. Or be realistic about what you can get out of them and be satisfied with that (eg: a few combos, rather than a whole choreo). There's no point in paying big bucks if you're really not going to learn enough.

I'm a LOT better than I used to be. I think the ability to pick up choreo improves with practice. But I still struggle sometimes, depending on the teacher and the material.

I think you have to take responsibility for your own learning in a large workshop like that.

It helps a lot to know your own learning style. I have to come up a verbal mantra for complex choreographies. If the instructor just say '1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8' I may have to come up with my own 'hip, hip, step, cross, OUT step cross touch.'

Turning can mess me up. Sometimes I have to walk or stand through turns (whichever keeps me out of the way of people around me). at first so I don't lose my bearings in the middle of trying to learn.

During breaks, I drill instead of chatting/shopping. usually other people will drill with me and we can help each other over rough spots. I find most instructors are happy to help or answer questions during breaks.

If my brain starts going on overload, I'll move to the back of the room so I don't mess anyone up and sometimes I'll give up on learning the choreography at that point and just focus on picking up whatever moves/combinations/techniques are new to me.

If I have to sit down for some reason, I try to stay mentally engaged, at least saying the steps in my head as I watch.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

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If my brain starts going on overload, I'll move to the back of the room so I don't mess anyone up and sometimes I'll give up on learning the choreography at that point and just focus on picking up whatever moves/combinations/techniques are new to me.

If I have to sit down for some reason, I try to stay mentally engaged, at least saying the steps in my head as I watch.

Yeah, this happens to me more than I wish.

But it does take a lot to learn other people's ways of moving and interpreting the music when you are so set in your own. I actually had a discussion about this with Tito, and he agreed and feels the same way. So jewelbellydance you and those of us who have that problem are in good company when it comes to learning other's choreographies.

If you've never been with the instuctor before it can take a while before you get into "their way", so the first workshop with someone new can be tough.

For me, I don't worry about what other people in the class think, I know they are all too busy looking in the mirror or at the instructor.

Also, ask yourself, if a concert pianist was learning a new piece, even if talented, would you expect it to be perfect the first time? Or if this person wanted to take home a new piece to practice, would you see that as a flaw?

I had a lady come up to me in a workshop and she mentioned that she didn't get it so well, and she could see that I did. I explained that I'd been taking workshops with that teacher for years, and had learned similar moves in a different choreo *and* I'd been practicing them at home, for a year, before attending. Remember all attendees have different stories. Don't judge yourself harshly.

I think most people worry that they are the one not getting it right. Usually everyone is too busy thinking that of themselves or focusing on the teacher to notice someone else make mistakes, so it is highly likely that you are your own harshest critic.

The whole point is that it is a workshop to learn new skills and/or improve, and not a performance.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

I don't have this problem - I can follow the bouncing butt fairly well, even at a distance - but I have another problem. I get utterly exhausted doing anyone else's workshop. It's wierd, I can teach 3 hours in a row no problems. But as soon as I'm learning someone else's stuff I am knackered. I can barely manage 2 hours! I know better than to sign up for a whole day of workshops, because after the first one (or even during that) my brain doesn't absorb anything.

Why is that? I hate looking stupid and unfit!

I feel the same way! I think it's because you have to work so hard mentally, which is exhausting. When you're doing something you and your muscles are used to, it's easy to go long. I think the newness of it is challenging. I know I have to think really hard about it.

I feel like I never get anything right at workshops. It takes me a long time to learn new things when it comes to physical activity. I have to practice a lot and get really comfortable with it. I always assume that people in classes and workshops shake their heads piteously at my obvious want for coordination. ..l;,

And you want to say "But I am a good dancer! No, really!" while you spin into a wall. ..l;,

Well, I've never done that, but I might be my own worst critic. I feel like the pressure's on when I'm at a workshop and I think that may be what's distracting me from getting everything I can out of it.

Brea, if it's any consolation I don't really notice other dancers unless they literally run into me. My focus is on the instructor, and I'm not concerned with other people's progress. I tend to look through the people in front of me rather than at them. Does that even make sense? ..l;,

YES!! I think most people are really MUCH too self-conscious and need to get out of their own way. Isn't there a quote or expression that says something like -- You'd stop worrying what people thought of you if you realized how rarely they do.

I think that's SO true -- and the more we can internalize it the more we can get out of our way and lead expansive and happy lives.

I completely agree with Lauren and Andrea2 that most people in a workshop are so wrapped up in trying to muddle through that they don't even see what anyone else is doing. I know I am - I'm usually completely focused on myself and the instructor, and everything else is white noise.

I actually *like* it when my students see me struggling at a workshop. I'm always telling them not to get frustrated if they're having trouble in class, because nearly everyone struggles when leaning something new no matter how much experience they have. When they see my stumbling around like a doofus, they realize I'm not just saying it to make them feel better - it's really true! ..l;,

Originally Posted by aziyade

Yep -- I say I need "jell time" for things to jell in my head. At the actual workshop, I usually look braindead.

Or, like I've never danced a day in my life . . .

Deborah

One good thing that comes out of struggling through another's workshop, is you appreciate again what it's like for students in your own class. In the same way, it's good to learn an entirely new skill from scratch, so you can appreciate what being a beginner is like, and remember all the frustrations and challenges your own students may be facing.

The workshop experience is indeed a humbling one!

I think I tend to be nervous because I fear cattiness more than anything, to be honest.

What do the top-top dancers do? I've always wondered that. Who do they go to workshops with?

I usually don't have problems in workshops, I pick up the choreo easily, may have problem with a particular combo but I will usually have it under control by the end of the workshop.

I do not retain workshop choreo's cause I have no desire to perform them. May leave the workshop with only one new thing and that makes me happy. Not a note taker, But I do remember concepts to a t?

Originally Posted by firefly5

I think most people worry that they are the one not getting it right. Usually everyone is too busy thinking that of themselves or focusing on the teacher to notice someone else make mistakes, so it is highly likely that you are your own harshest critic.

The whole point is that it is a workshop to learn new skills and/or improve, and not a performance.

I totally agree with firefly. Presumably, everyone in a workshop is there to learn. New steps or combinations or a new technique it's going to take time to master, even if the person is a pro, and they don't usually master that within the 2-3 hours that are most workshops. Also, often times when people are in a workshop in practice wear, little to no makeup, etc., they look vastly different than they do on stage, so I might not connect someone stumbling over the movement in class with the graceful, confident glitz queen who dances in the show later that night.

As far as large or small, I think what matters most to me is whether the room can accommodate the crowd and can the instructor be seen/heard. I was once in a workshop that was too large for the space and the dancers kept running into each other during combos that involved turning around in a circle.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

The workshop experience is indeed a humbling one!

I think I tend to be nervous because I fear cattiness more than anything, to be honest.

What do the top-top dancers do? I've always wondered that. Who do they go to workshops with?

I know a bunch of them have turned up at Yousry Sharif's weeklongs.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

The workshop experience is indeed a humbling one!

I think I tend to be nervous because I fear cattiness more than anything, to be honest.

What do the top-top dancers do? I've always wondered that. Who do they go to workshops with?

You should not worry about what other's think of you, like many people have pointed out, the other people in workshops are into themselves and aren't paying attention to you anyway.

Some people really are good, and I must admit I am impressed with how some people can do workshop after workshop and learn the choreographies. And they take 2-3 workshops at 2-3 hours each a day for 5 days! They tend to be from Russia and the Ukraine mostly. But the interesting thing is that although they can learn several choreogrpaphies, when we have our dance parties and we all just free style dance, they don't seem to know what to do and will repeat the same moves over and over. I may not remember a choreography I learned in the day, but have no problem when it comes to free style dance, and that is where I get the most compliments. So we are all different and learn differently and have different skills.

And what do you mean by the top-top dancers? I once stood next to Aida Nour in Mahmoud Reda's workshop (about a year ago) and even she was having a hard time and turning the wrong way sometimes. And she studied with him for years and still had some difficulties following his drills. I admired her for being there. Honestly I don't think the top of the top people take others' workshops very often. The top people sometimes go and watch the workshops taught be other top people, but this was the only time I have ever seen one of the top people actually particpate in one. However, Mohamed Kazafy often times assists Farida Fahmy, Aida Nour and Mahmoud Reda when they teach their workshops, and also teaches his own.

I don't do choreography well. I love improv. I'm better at follow the bouncing butt do it over and over until music is drilled in my head. If I'm frustrated its a sign I'm learning out of my comfort box. I also say to myself I'm there to learn a taste of this teachers style, I do the best I can and If I can 1 or 2 combos or good information I'm golden, worth every penny.
For me there is always something to new to learn. I am also there to learn and not worry about anyone's ego. There are dancers who pick it up quicker than me. Sometimes I stop and actually watch the choreography I try to take notes but sometimes my brain works faster than I can write.
We all learn differently.

Alrana

[QUOTE=BreaMorgiane;376262]Jewel - I get you on the all-day workshops. I don't get physically tired, but my brain eventually wants to go have a conversation. ..g.: It's too bad, too, because I feel like I look like I'm not dedicated enough.

As far as following the bouncing butt, I think my brain just works differently. It is more of the watch/learn/process type, which isn't an instantaneous thing. I'm more like aziyade in that sense!

I don't get much out of the workshop if there are tons of people there as bellydancewear mentions, and I'm more like Lissa- take home and process.

Oh that's so me too! After about an hour & a half, my brain just wants to stop learning and wrinkle quietly in a corner with some coffee and baklava.

I don't even bother trying to remember a choreography - just some of the movements that I like and want to try on my own.

The best "choreography-learning" workshop I have attended was Morocco's. I LOVE that she has you do a few moves, then repeat them 4 times, then add a small bit, then repeat from the beginning 4 more times, repeat repeat repeat.