Thread: How do I learn to dance to ME music?

Okay, so I've heard from several sources that certain instruments in Middle Eastern music are indicative of certain moods, or representative of which body part is most natural to be using, etc. The question is, where can I learn this information? As far as I know,there isn't a teacher here in Denver that really focuses on this, so I am not sure where to find a reliable source. Any suggestions? Thanks!!

Well, Hossam Ramzy's courses (with Serena his wife doing the dance teaching) apparently go over some of this - I haven't ever studied with him but reports are good. I think he may have an article on his website. Getting to study with actual ME performers is also really helpful, but probably only after a solid background of study and immersion in the music to begin with.

There are certain conventions, which are not set in stone. The nay is high and breathy, so it tends to say upper body/arms. The qanoon is shivery and delicate, so it tends to say shimmies. The accordion is rich and gutsy so it tends to suggest the belly and hips. Don't ask me how you're supposed to interpret the oud! Although somebody did once suggest using a single body part, because it is more quiet and intimate.

If the instrument's sound is smooth, it suggests smooth movements; if it's staccato, staccato. But great dancers can sometimes completely override these conventions and it works. They are really useful guidelines to begin with though.

Keti's 'bellydance live' series covers those 'guidelines' that Zum mentioned (Shira has a review on her site). She works with live musicians and goes through the different instruments matching movements to the music and so on. I believe her methods are based along the same lines as Hossam's teachings.

But I would stress that these 'rules' and others like it are training methods and teaching 'products' rather than the be all and end all of Interpreting ME Music.

I think these "rules" are more guidelines. In the end, you have to express the music the way YOU hear and feel it.
What you have to do for this is really listen to the music. Often.
A dancer's job is to make the music visible. As if you wanted to show a deaf person the music you are hearing now.

I don't think it's so much about body parts - if you shimmy to the qanoun with your hips or chest is not important.

MEISSOUN

I agree with Meissoun, immersion is the best way to really know the music.

... And besides, if Soheir Zaki can Not shimmy to the qanoon then that's good enough for me

Originally Posted by micamica

Okay, so I've heard from several sources that certain instruments in Middle Eastern music are indicative of certain moods, or representative of which body part is most natural to be using, etc. The question is, where can I learn this information? As far as I know,there isn't a teacher here in Denver that really focuses on this, so I am not sure where to find a reliable source. Any suggestions? Thanks!!

If you lack live music (which you may not -- I'll get to that in a moment), meissoun has the right of it -- get the music. Listen to the music; on the way to work, at work, working out, etc. Really immerse yourself in the specific style you like; mine ended up being the rough rural stylings of groups like Musicians of the Nile, who remind me of the Gospel Music I grew up singing. Most folks see Arabic (usually Egyptian Orchestra as the pinnacle, and it's the best-known and studied style as well.
I'd say the videos also mentioned in this thread would be good to start with, but watching the native dancers actually dance, and taken notes from there, would be a great way to also learn. You'll also see how different dancers interpret differently, and that's an important lesson, as well. There's a great book I own for this kind of study, Ear Training for the Body; it's for dancers to learn to hear the music. I also highly recommend you study basic drum rhythms, so that you can get a feel for how the various patterns work together.
In the SCA, I get time throughout the year with some well-known musicians for this kind of stuff. If you're really wanting to work with music in an Improv format in the US, hitting the right SCA event at the right moment can give you experience like no other (as this video shows, and it's even from your area).

I agree with all of the above. The guidelines mentioned here, and in the article on Hossam Ramzy's site, are a good place to start, but they're not 'rules,' it's not 'wrong' to do it some other way.

I think watching native dancers was most helpful to me. Hearing 'shimmy on the kanoon' didn't do much for me, but the first time I saw Fifi do it, a giant light bulb went off for me.

I think immersion in the music is very important as well. When I was really trying to develop my ear for ME music, I went through a period of about 8 months where that was the only music I listened to (other than an occasional listen to the radio when their were others in the car).

The other thing was what Lauren suggsted - to observe other dancers as much as possible. It helped me get a feel for those "guidelines", even back in the day when I couldn't name the instruments off the top of my head.

Watch a wide range of native Middle Eastern dancers and listen to lots of middle eastern music - in a range of styles. Takes time.

Not sure how helpful "rules" about instrument and body part - other than if it helps express the sound of the music. However. with heavily orchestrated music you more naturally layer to follow different instruments with different parts of your body. With simpler beledi music the movement vocab is simpler.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions-I really appreciate it!! I am excellent at learning choreography, but abysmal at improv =( I am thinking that having certain instrumental/body correlations might help give me at least some reference points while I'm stumbling along practicing at home =) I seem to have problems identifying drum beats-as soon as you add a little flair to anything basic, I have no clue what it is, or what will come next! I hope that lots of listening will help this. I am definitely not comfortable with dancing to live drummers yet, although SCA would definitely provide some great opportunities! Thanks for the tip!
I borrowed two different videos from a friend to watch, but that isn't working out so well! one is of an excellent dancer, but with music so annoying I have to mute it (not ME) and in the other video the performers seem mostly off to me-I don't know if they are hearing something I'm not? Hurray for youtube! Thanks again to everyone for all the advice.
Nikki

Originally Posted by micamica

I seem to have problems identifying drum beats-as soon as you add a little flair to anything basic, I have no clue what it is, or what will come next! I hope that lots of listening will help this.

Lots of listening will definitely help.

The other thing that helped me a lot was learning to drum the basic rhythms. Not that I'm a drummer by any means, my hand positions aren't correct, etc. But I started with Uncle Mafufo's '25 rhythms' CD, which I highly recommend. He counts them out, speaks them, then plays them slow & simple, gradually speeding up & with different fills. At first, I used an empty coffee can to drum along.

That helped me TREMENDOUSLY with my zilling, too.

Egyptian dancers seem to dance almost exclusively to the drums, whatever other instrumentation might be going on. And it works for them, because of course the melody is also following the rhythm.

I still can't identify & name any but the most common rhythms, but I'm much better at 'hearing' them and don't get sucked off by the melody nearly so much any more.

Hi Nikki, I know Eva Cernik has covered musical interpretation and rhythms in her class. I don't know how often she covers it, but you might want to consider a private lesson or two from her on the subject if you want to work with a live teacher. I think she's out of the country for the summer, though.

Also, Amina Salah in Boulder focuses on Egyptian style and has studied with Egyptian dancers, so she might be able to teach this also. Unfortunately, I think she's out of the country right now too.

Actually Eva is my preferred instructor, although I have only had one six week session with her! I believe she will be back in town in Semptember? Thanks for the advice about having a private session with her about this-I can't believe I didn't think of it =)

Actually, I got an email that she just got back. I don't know when she plans to teach classes again, but she's doing a performance in Boulder tonight.

Yes, I second learning drum rhythms! Go along to a ME drum workshop if possible, or pick up a rhythm/drumming instructional video/CD. I found I understood music so much better after learning about the rhythmical base that underlines it.

What has helped me the most is going along to 'master' workshops from top dancers who have worked in Egypt and dance to the more complicated oriental style pieces of music. Learning choreographies or techniques from them, and noting what queues in the music they match these to, has really helped me understand what the music is 'telling' me to do. I have learnt great technique from my local teachers, but it's ladies like Aida Nour, Liza Laziza and Yasmina that have helped me in the art of interpretation. Even though it can be *really* expensive to attend a workshop with such dancers (esp. travel), if you get the opportunity, go!