Thread: Zill Borrowing Problem

I would love some suggestions about how to handle this situation.

I started teaching a middle eastern dance class in a gym setting a few months ago. The students do not need to register for a session, they can just drop-in when they wish. Even so, I have developed a core group of about 9 ladies who come on a very regular basis.

Because I have this core group, I decided I would teach zills as part of the class. I use them every week and I have some reasonably priced cymbals to sell to my students. I have told students they need to purchase some and that they can get them from me or any other source they choose.

Each week I bring a few extra sets of my own cymbals with me for people to use who have forgotten theirs or for brand new people who haven't had a chance to buy any yet. Unfortunately, I have 3 or 4 ladies who just keep borrowing the cymbals each week instead of buying them. A few times new people have tried class only to find that all the cymbals are in use. Also, I am not real crazy about people using mine week after week.

What can I do to end this problem without alienating these zill borrowers?

Don't bring them anymore.
Or if you bring them, tell the old-timers that the new people have dibs on them.

Or, if you string them up for freakishly small fingers, maybe they won't want to borrow them.

Originally Posted by SandraDances

if you bring them, tell the old-timers that the new people have dibs on them.

This.

Just state up front that because of the high demand for loaner cymbals, your new policy is (what she said). This will go over better if you print up some handouts saying where people can buy finger cymbals, hip wraps, etc (including you!). This will keep anyone from saying that you just want to sell finger cymbals...and the lazy students will be more likely to buy from you anyway, since you're convenient.

What Sandra said.

I like being able to provide loaners for everyone in class, but I don't let them use mine!

When I first started teaching, I held back a portion of my earnings to re-invest in the business. I bought loaner veils for class, and loaner zills. I found some *really* inexpensive ones on amazon that aren't terrible, but aren't great either. I set out a bag of them with elastic and tiny safety pins so people can adjust them to fit. When people complain that their zills don't sound like my nice Saroyans, I remind them that the quality of the zills themselves is a huge factor, and I always have handouts with info on where to buy them.

We have some loaners and they are all evil single-hole zills with hard tight elastic in them, or tinny clackety light ones that are ugly. Using the loan zills is no fun. The evil single-hole ones are like the zills of *punishment*.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

We have some loaners and they are all evil single-hole zills with hard tight elastic in them, or tinny clackety light ones that are ugly. Using the loan zills is no fun. The evil single-hole ones are like the zills of *punishment*.

..l;,:zillevil:

Originally Posted by Lauren_

..l;,:zillevil:

Zills of Doom. Or you could make a rule that people who forget their zills have to do a 30 sec solo with the loaners...cr.:

I think Sandra has hit it on the head also.

I require all of my Level 2 students to purchase inexpensive student zills I buy wholesale from Mid-East.com the first class of the session when they move up from Beginning. I call any new students the day before the class starts and remind them to bring the zill money with them. I have the equipment charge spelled out in the class description, so they know when they sign up for the class that they are required to pay the fee.

If someone forgets their zills, I have two extra pair with me at all times, and will loan them out if someone occasionally forgets theirs. However, no one likes to borrow them because I have very small fingers and wear my zills tight, and also because mine are much heavier than the lightweight student ones.

Just 'forget' to bring them. Your core group should be able to buy them, and your new students probably have a lot to think about with out them.

I would leave them at home also since it bothers you. I remember times when I forgot my zills for class and just air-zilled with my fingers - still got in the practice and there was not a mistake to be heard.

Originally Posted by BELLA_BELLA

Zills of Doom. Or you could make a rule that people who forget their zills have to do a 30 sec solo with the loaners...cr.:

This has got to be the ultimate deterrent! ..l;,

But I like the idea of telling them that the new kids get dibs.

Loaners should be for people who want to try it out and for those who occasionally forget. You could even make that your policy. Though some might view it as harsh, it's really not fair that these ladies get to play for no pay.

But this is a gym class, not a studio, right? If I dropped in at a yoga class at my gym and was told that I had to bring my own props I would be pissed. That's what my gym membership is supposed to pay for. From a gym member prospective, I would never expect to have to buy a prop for class.

I think Laura has the right idea - wait to teach them to Level 2 students and then require them to buy zills. This way they have made more of a commitment and shouldn't be offended when told to buy them.

Once in awhile, if I'm in that end of town, I do a drop-in class with a friend of mine (apart from my 3X weekly sessions with my teacher). I always carry several pairs of my zils in my dance bag. My friend was doing zils that day and someone forgot theirs, so I loaned her a pair of mine. She left without returning them and then never came back to my friend's class. And these zils were a brand new pair of Saroyans! I could have kicked myself. This will NEVER happen again!

Originally Posted by Zyzzyva

Once in awhile, if I'm in that end of town, I do a drop-in class with a friend of mine (apart from my 3X weekly sessions with my teacher). I always carry several pairs of my zils in my dance bag. My friend was doing zils that day and someone forgot theirs, so I loaned her a pair of mine. She left without returning them and then never came back to my friend's class. And these zils were a brand new pair of Saroyans! I could have kicked myself. This will NEVER happen again!

That was really very rude of her. .p::

Hi!
I have the same problem with my veils. so i decided to bring only
my oldest veils - maybe you have one, you never take...

Originally Posted by Fotia

That was really very rude of her. .p::

Never mind rude, it's theft!

Originally Posted by beafarhana

Never mind rude, it's theft!

Yeah, I wanted to say that too - thanks for saying it first!

Given the nature of your classes, it's hard to tell people they have to have their own. If you want to continue with their use, I think the best thing is to invest in some cheapie one-hole style zills for them to use. You can get them for $0.99 on eBay all over the place. Then you could also provide a handout of where they can buy their own, quality set. No need to come up with excuses about why you don't want to lend yours. Especially since some of the ladies appear to be abusing your generosity. Just say nothing, and bring the cheapies. ;-)

Maybe the gym would foot the bill?

Have you suggested that if they want to get better, they should practice at home? Then you could guide them into buying their own pair.

I suggest that, because it sounds like your group is a little more dedicated than a normal gym class if they're doing zills.

Another suggestion is that you have them rotate who's using them. I've gone to sword workshops where not everyone had a sword and we rotated who gets to use the swords available. They can air zill if they don't have the zills at that moment.

The easier you make it for people to not buy their own, the less likely they will buy their own.

This is true regardless of whether you're talking about zills, veils, hip scarves, troupe costumes, etc.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

The easier you make it for people to not buy their own, the less likely they will buy their own.

This is true regardless of whether you're talking about zills, veils, hip scarves, troupe costumes, etc.

Amen. Leave your extra's at home. The ladies that really want to learn them have either bought them, or will buy when it isn't so easy not to buy. The others can "air zill" along. If they want to be cool like everyone else, they will buy. I don't think it is so bad to ask them to get their own. This may be a gym class but it is not a requirement to being there (yoga mats in a yoga class, balls in a ball balance class are IMO).

I had a fellow student who use to borrow mine in class ALL the time saying that she kept forgetting hers. Turns out, she never got any and wanted to use my nice ones instead of paying the stupid $7 for her own. There are always those who will take advantage.

Thanks so much for the replies. I think I will just "forget" the extras next week but I will bring the ones for sale and suggest that people purchase them. I will also make a list of other sources so they don't think I am cheating them.

Originally Posted by Munirah

But this is a gym class, not a studio, right? If I dropped in at a yoga class at my gym and was told that I had to bring my own props I would be pissed. That's what my gym membership is supposed to pay for. From a gym member prospective, I would never expect to have to buy a prop for class.

I see your point but most gyms will not foot the bill for "belly dance props." I've tried to talk my boss into buying loaner hip scarves and veils for my students but she just cannot justify the cost to her boss. Unlike the drop-in yoga classes which may have 100s of participants each week, my class usually has 8-12 people for a 10-week session.

So unfortunately I have to provide my own loaners and I always seem to have 1 or 2 "perpetual borrowers" who won't pay for their own stuff. These are usually the students who don't plan to stick with belly dance anyway so I suppose they don't see the value in owning their own props. I personally wouldn't want to borrow from the "loaner pool" since these are "personal" items that may carry germs. The same people who must disinfect a mat before doing floor work don't seem to mind that they are putting a loaner veil up to their faces. Odd. ..c::

Originally Posted by jaded

The same people who must disinfect a mat before doing floor work don't seem to mind that they are putting a loaner veil up to their faces. Odd. ..c::

Good point, ewwwwwww.

Originally Posted by Surida

I remember times when I forgot my zills for class and just air-zilled with my fingers - still got in the practice and there was not a mistake to be heard.

Ha ha "air-zilling" is exactly what I call it and exactly what I get my gals to do if they forgot theirs. That way we continue with zill drills no matter what.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

The easier you make it for people to not buy their own, the less likely they will buy their own.

This is true regardless of whether you're talking about zills, veils, hip scarves, troupe costumes, etc.

I agree with you, Shira. I would not loan zills at all. If dancers really wanted to improve, they'd purchase their own. I teach school, and mean as it sounds, I won't even loan my students a pencil. Funny, they come to my class prepared, but with the other teachers.......g.:

Originally Posted by Munirah

But this is a gym class, not a studio, right? If I dropped in at a yoga class at my gym and was told that I had to bring my own props I would be pissed. That's what my gym membership is supposed to pay for. From a gym member prospective, I would never expect to have to buy a prop for class.

Me again...

It's hard for me to think of zills as a "prop". To me, it's very much part of the dance experience. But then, I love the zillzzzzzzz!!!!!,r:;

Originally Posted by Zyzzyva

Once in awhile, if I'm in that end of town, I do a drop-in class with a friend of mine (apart from my 3X weekly sessions with my teacher). I always carry several pairs of my zils in my dance bag. My friend was doing zils that day and someone forgot theirs, so I loaned her a pair of mine. She left without returning them and then never came back to my friend's class. And these zils were a brand new pair of Saroyans! I could have kicked myself. This will NEVER happen again!

Track her down with bloodhounds and get those zills back!,m::