Thread: 40 Plus Dancers

I am a 50+ dancer, instructor, and troupe director. Lately I have become very sensitive to what I feel are ageist remarks from other dancers. In general, they were insinuations that one should retire from the stage after age 40, that it is somehow distasteful to watch a 40 plus dancer perform, that the whole business of dance belongs to youth. It leaves me feeling sad, discouraged, and lonely. I realize that younger people tend to view their elders as out of touch, ready to be put out to pasture. I feel that we have so much to offer; our experience, years of learning, finding our own style -- and that our journey should not come to an end because of our "number", but only if physical disability forces an end to our career. No, I don't look like an 18-year-old, but I feel that I have my own mature beauty. I read a thread on bhuz about Morocco, and it was filled with praise for, among other things, her stamina at age 70. No ageist comments here...I guess I sound pretty spineless, ready to back down in reaction to others' opinions. I admit that I'm in a vulnerable place right now, having just passed another milestone, second-guessing myself even without the comments. What do you think? I am most interested in hearing from other mature dancers; do you share my concerns? Are you still digging your heels in and continuing to learn, take on new dance challenges? Or are you backing off, ready to leave the stage to the young dancers who feel that your dancing days are over?

I plan on bedazzeling my walker...screw em! I started at 47, and can grind most of my 20 year old students into the floor in the first 15 minutes of class. My costume choices may change as my body does, but I have much more to offer than an unlined face. Keep on keepin on, I say!

I just turned 42 and I feel like I am just getting started. I have way too much to offer my audience, as well as younger dancers, to stop now! I think that being more mature brings a whole different dynamic to dance. We have more "experience" with emotions, so to say. What I mean is that it seems like we can really interpret the feel of the music. I'm not saying that younger dancers aren't able to but we have experienced so much more that we can easily pull it into what we are feeling with the music. I hope that makes sense and people understand what I'm trying to say. I am no where near ready to give up dancing and if anyone over the age of 40 has a passion for this beautiful dance form then I hope they never stop! Age is how you feel. And if dancing makes you feel beautiful, sensual, and young then go for it!!! One of the reasons I love this dance form is that it is ageless.

I don't know if my comments will be much help/comfort - but personally I tend to PREFER older dancers. That whole life experience thing - when an older dancer takes the stage I sit up and take notice!

IMHO, dancers of EVERY age have something to contribute, the youngsters have that fresh beauty - but there's nothing wrong with experience. Don't let the snarky comments get you down - and don't let ANYONE take your joy away from you!

I'm 48. One of my teachers is 58. You already mentioned Morocco. There are plenty of others. Wasn't it Bert Baladine (RIP) who said something to the effect that if you weren't at least 40 you didn't have anything to dance about anyway?

I know a dance sister who is older than dirt. There is NO-ONE who dances with as much sheer JOY as she does - we all just LOVE her to pieces! She's been dancing since sometime in pre-history (I think she once said something about dancing at the dedication of the Great Pyramid) and it shows - she can dance rings around just about anyone!

I'll give up my veil when they pry it from my cold, stiff, dead fingers!

If there are people who feel that way, that's in their heads - but not in mine. I heard that George Abdo said a woman under 40 doesn't have anything to dance about. And, most, if not all, of the dancers who have moved me to tears are looking back at 40 in the rear view mirror!

Originally Posted by anala

I plan on bedazzeling my walker...screw em! I started at 47, and can grind most of my 20 year old students into the floor in the first 15 minutes of class.

YEAH!!! You go girl! :thumbs_up:

I am 43 and can I just say I am waaayyyy hotter than I was when I was 20 or 30. I am also in better physical condition right now than I have ever been in my life. When I was young I was a weakling and uncoordinated and couldn't do much of anything physical.

As far as performing goes, I am just getting warmed up.

As far as learning goes, yes, I try to push myself out of my comfort zone on a regular basis.

Those people are just retarded. What are they, 16?
A 40 years old woman nowadays is very different from a 40 years old woman let's say about 30 years ago. We don't just sit at home and get wobbly... Today's 40+ are more active in general. And we still like to party!

I just turned 40 two weeks ago and I don't see a reason why I should hang my costumes on the wall. In fact I am just preparing to go to a dance festival and I doubt anybody will complain about my age!
I'm in good shape and from a distance you don't see my wrinkles ..l;,

We even have several dancers over 40 performing in restaurants here. And they are good and people like them!

Oh, and can somebody please tell Fifi Abdo to stay at home? And Dina must be 40 soon as well, judging by how long she's been around. Ts ts ts, how distasteful!

MEISSOUN

You? Past it? Puh-leeeeeze! You've got a few years on me (and I'm not exactly a teenager myself), and from the last clip I saw of you sure as hell can kick MY ass at assaya. It might be an equally good use of your cane if you whacked it over the head of whoever these smack-talking dolts are.

You want I should *cracks knuckles* bust some heads for ya? Say the word, habibi - I've got a couple of swords and I'm not afraid to use 'em.

[QUOTE=zorba;391435]I don't know if my comments will be much help/comfort - but personally I tend to PREFER older dancers. That whole life experience thing - when an older dancer takes the stage I sit up and take notice!

QUOTE]

Heck, I'm 42, only dancing 5 years. I've just started and don't plan to quit. It's what keeps me feeling young.

We may not like what the youngies are saying...but....to be honest....belly dancers is youthful market (even in the Middle East, I've see it with my own eyes).

Does that mean us oldies can't look screaming hot and give a kick $rse performance? no.

The only thing you can do is keep doing what YOU want to do and when you feel someone is being ageist just sigh and remind yourself that you can't put an old head on young shoulders (and get a small inner glow from reminding yourself that one day, those youthful ageist types too will be old...)

Dancing keeps you young, you should never stop! And from my experience as a teacher most women don't even start belly dancing until their 30s and 40s.

In my troupe there is not one person under 40! The young girls are too flaky to work with and the ones in their 30s are usually too busy with a career or family or both to dedicate the time.

I do like to see young dancers that have good technique and stage presence. And I think to myself when I see them that when they are in their 40s and 50s they will be great dancers because they will have experienced the heart aches of life that most of the Arabic songs are about.

So Shaia, get up and brush the dust off and get back up on that stage and keep on dancing!!!

I shudder to think what the dance world would be like if all dancers over the age of 40 "retired".

Here I am at 5:37 a.m. reading your comments...I was so afraid that everyone would tell me to go sit on my rocker, that it was keeping me awake.

Thank you all for sharing your opinions and experiences, for inspiring and reassuring me. And after clicking on every over-40 dancer's profile pic in this thread, I would not have guessed that you, too, have a high number. I see beauty, energy, dance passion. I have read posts from every one of you in the past, and thought that you were all "kids". So, if you ever get in that space I've been in, keep that in mind! I'm so glad that I have my fellow sisters and brothers in the dance to talk with! And laura2, I'll remember your offer if I ever have to get tough.....

Tell your detractors to F*** off. I'm 62 and when a young dancer told me she would give up at 24 because older than that was too old to perform, I just snarled internally and smiled in the most patronising way I could muster.
I bet nobody told Fifi she was too old to perform when you visited you in the US!

Originally Posted by bellydancewear

In my troupe there is not one person under 40! The young girls are too flaky to work with and the ones in their 30s are usually too busy with a career or family or both to dedicate the time.

We have only 1 under 20, only 2 under 30, and the rest of us are 30+....and we're one of the youngest (combined ages) troupes in town. You just keep on going, girl!! I understand...I'm in my early 30s, but I've worried about it, myself. But, Screw it. Look at some of the most well known dancers out there....how many of them are under 40??? The dancers I most admire are at LEAST in their 30s and 40s.

I am 61 and just getting warmed up! Look around at the most respected dancers and I would bet that none of them are in the 20s and very few even in their 30s.

Look, go to almost any weekend long workshop and see who is still dancing on Sunday afternoon. Its the "mature ladies." The belly bunnies and young hotties are sitting down nursing their wounds or have already split.

Dance, dance dance!

Souzan

Like Kadife and Souzan I'm in my 60s and plan to keep dancing until I can no longer climb/crawl up the steps to the stage . . . ...g.:

Now, if you mean do I expect BDSS to come knocking at my door, then no; I'm neither age-wise nor physical-wise what they are looking for. But if you mean, in my own general area, in seminar shows, festivals, troupe productions, demos, etc. -- yes, I'll be dancing until I can no longer stand . . . and then I plan to shout instructions and encouragement to the rest of the troupe. And if anyone doesn't like watching me? Well, maybe they should take the opportunity to have a bathroom break, cause I ain't going nowhere.

I am 42 and fell way more sexy and in shape as in my 20's. I started 3 years ago and don't plan on stopping soon. You need experience for this dance and that comes with age...uh duh. :-)

There are two separate issues here: public perception and ability. As for public perception, the sad truth is that being old doesn't usually work out so good. The general public has a hardened image of what a belly dancer is supposed to look like, and "old" isn't it. That's not to say that the GP can't ever appreciate an older dancer--they can--but it is very difficult to get them to give you a chance. I think people tend to forget when they talk about older dancers that many of those dancers made their reputations over years and have earned their place on stage. If you asked someone, even an educated dancer, if they wanted to watch "some old woman who is almost 70," you would probably get a different response than if you asked them if they wanted to watch Morocco. The fact that Morocco has built a reputation of being a great dancer assuages the concerns people have over her age. People still expect her to be good because she's been good for as long as anybody can remember.

Which brings me to the other point--ability. We like to pretend that everything ought to be equal in life, but it isn't. Some people are blessed with the gift of being able to really feel music. It touches their soul. They have a natural understanding of rhythm and phrasing. They feel it so well, they're able to help other people feel it--and the good news is that if you have that talent, old age can't take it away from you. Sure, arthritis can mess up your ability to move around, and you won't be as flexible as a 20 year old, but the magic will still be there. Older teachers are far more interesting to study with than the younger ones, because they aren't sidetracked by trying to throw spectacular parlor tricks into their dancing to impress the peanut gallery. It's a shame that the GP refuses to understand that there is more to this than looking hot in a costume and being able to do a backbend.

There are great dancers who are young and great dancers who are old. There are also lousy dancers who are young and lousy dancers who are old. How good a dancer you are often has very little to do with your age.

In addition to the already great feedback that's here...

I have to wonder how these dancers will feel about dancing when they're the ones that reach 40.

II'm older than dirt and have no plans to stop dancing--it keeps me younger than all those old people. Shaia you have a wealth of experience/knowledge to share so don't let those negative folks get you down!

does this have anything to do with where you live?
where i am, the community knows a better dance is from a dancer with life experance to dance about.
no slam on you young ones, lol.
just that middle eastern peoples feel age has more to say.
i am sure you or many other pro dancers do not look their age because of what we do!
i am 58, most think i am in my early 40's.
but i get nervous too, some do the math of how long they have been hireing or watching me.i hold my breath, but their comments are always good!

Originally Posted by meissoun

Those people are just retarded. What are they, 16?

Oh, and can somebody please tell Fifi Abdo to stay at home? And Dina must be 40 soon as well, judging by how long she's been around. Ts ts ts, how distasteful!

MEISSOUN

I believe Dina saw 40 a few years ago. And Lucy must be staring 50 straight in the eye.

I can't read this thread without thinking of Logan's Run.

RENEWAL!


Aziza is 41 and she kicked po-po on that stage last weekend. Probably most of my favorite dancers are well in their 50s, or at least 40 when I saw them perform.

I guess Amar Gamal is the youngest dancer I'm crazy about, but I have no idea how old she is.

if these negative comments are coming from other dancers in your area, CONGRATS! you must be hell a good, they are jealous!

At 26, I'm certainly not an elder in the community, but I completely disagree with what you've presented as the 'young' point of view. Some of my favorite dancers in just my community are in their 50's and 60's. I think belly dance is one of the few art forms where the performer ages like wine. I've yet to meet an older belly dancer that actually looks her age as well.

That being said, I don't like when dancers reach 40 and feel they've learned everything they need to know, so stop studying. Or they don't continue to work on flexibility and stamina, so their hip movements are smaller or they run out of energy by the end of the performance. I also don't like seeing this in younger dancers either.

Originally Posted by aziyade

Aziza is 41

Get. The. Hell. Out. I had her pegged as early to mid 30's, tops!

Originally Posted by maliaraqs

At 26, I'm certainly not an elder in the community, but I completely disagree with what you've presented as the 'young' point of view. Some of my favorite dancers in just my community are in their 50's and 60's. I think belly dance is one of the few art forms where the performer ages like wine. I've yet to meet an older belly dancer that actually looks her age as well.

That being said, I don't like when dancers reach 40 and feel they've learned everything they need to know, so stop studying. Or they don't continue to work on flexibility and stamina, so their hip movements are smaller or they run out of energy by the end of the performance. I also don't like seeing this in younger dancers either.

Thank you, Malia, for expressing what was in my mind!

Forty is still a little ways off for me (though the view of it is a little more clear
from my vantage point than Malia's, if you get my drift.:-) But I also don't think that light I see at the end of the tunnel is a freight train. ;-) Honestly, many of the working dancers I know are either over 40 or nearing 40, and for the most part, the best ones seem to be at least on the far side of 30, some in their 50s etc. Yes, there is always a crop of young puppies, and sure, occasionally you'll meet one who, through the inexperience of youth, thinks dance should be a young gal's game, but I think that's BS. Many of my students are in their 40s, 50s, or 60s--and absolutely, they deserve to DANCE! For studying, haflas and other community stuff, age should never be an issue.

Now...when it comes to gigging, dancing in restaurants and the like...it sucks, it's not "fair" but reality is, age can come into play, at least on some level. Sometimes it's simply owner bias (there's a restaurant owner in my town who apparently told a dancer I know recently that he won't hire anyone over 30 anymore. ..c::) But most often it's not a specific age cut off--it's more dependent on what the dancer brings to the table. On the whole, appearance and skill both matter, but the balance may changes depending on the situation. As we get older, it sometimes takes a little more effort to maintain a good appearance. But seriously, having well fitting, attractive-for-the-current body costumes and well executed hair, makeup, etc. becomes even more important. And...skill becomes more important. Simply put, because of our society's focus on youth and beauty, the older dancer sometimes has to work harder and be better to get the job. If a restaurant owner sees a 25 year old and a 45 year old, and they both of whom have the same level of dance skill, performance capability, and stage presence, chances are, he'll hire the 25 year old.