Thread: No more interest in background and history?

Hi together,

I´m teaching bellydance classes in germany for about 13 years now. The last few years I´ve recognized, that most of the new students are not interested in learning about the the history, about other dancers, about different rythms, instruments and folcloric dances. They want to learn some movements and as fast as possible choreos to dance on birthdays...,m::. For me like bellydance consumption.

What are your experiences?

Greets

Zarka

Originally Posted by Zarka

Hi together,

I´m teaching bellydance classes in germany for about 13 years now. The last few years I´ve recognized, that most of the new students are not interested in learning about the the history, about other dancers, about different rythms, instruments and folcloric dances. They want to learn some movements and as fast as possible choreos to dance on birthdays...,m::. For me like bellydance consumption.

What are your experiences?

Greets

Zarka

Yes, unfortunately this is often the case. But I educate 'em anyway, whether they like it or not. And in a roundabout way, they get tested, which kind of makes them strive to at least not be ignorant in the class.

I would LOVE to have a instructor that would teach all of those things! I agree that people just want the bare bones these days...but that seems to be the norm for everything these days...not just bellydance. It's a shame!

i love learning the dancing! it's what got me into this anyhoo. but somewhere down the line, you realise you're missing so much when you don't know the rhythms, styles, etc... and now i want to learn all that, because i'm in love with the dance and this'll bring me even deeper into it :D making me better because i understand it better...

I think what happens (with students who start to take the art form seriously) is a slow progression from just dancing to learning. *Most* of the time students start classes for the entertainment, health, tounge in cheek aspect and then as they progress in their studies they become more and more involved in the historical, cultural, and more cerebral aspects of the dance.

Not all students will progress to the point of wanting to learn more then physical movements and choreographies and don't fret about it. There will be plenty of students who will want to learn more, so take the time to nurture them.

I actually LOOK for teachers who goes into detail on all those things - I like to know if, for example, my arm pose was made popular by a certain dancer, or where a song came from and what its about. When I started out, I was not so much interested in folkloric stuff, but kinda craving that now as well!

my students enjoy it (otherwise they do a good job of acting like it) - I incorporate the history and concepts as we're covering a certain piece of music or movement, and just enough info per class - they don't need a whole lecture on Turkish history to start to understand 9/8's. Key thing is to balance the knowledge with the fun bits :)

I go into historical and cultural detail with my classes all the time. You're right; I can tell that most of them are a bit taken aback, particularly with learning rhythms. I'm also quite sure I've had some students leave because bellydance wasn't the easy wiggle-dance that they were expecting, and coming from me, not the goddess-oriented-fertility-dance thing (which I frankly find rather rude to pagans). I've noticed they'll accept history if it's presented to them inaccurately, that being one example. I believe Shira has called that 'wishstory', which I like. Nobody likes to hear the unromantic historical version.

As I've said before, we teach a cultural dance form. That comes with history, culture, and things that will be different from other dance styles they may know. I also know that those looking for an 'empowerment' class or 'let's be sexy' class will go elsewhere. This isn't therapy, this is dance. Of course I think that dance in itself can be worthwhile to help you be more comfortable with yourself, etc, but I am training dancers, not having a group hug session.

If we want to have bellydance taken seriously as a dance, I think it's important to teach it seriously too.

That leads me to a question I keep asking: With the misinformation out there propagated even by other dancers, how do we combat this? I am not against anyone's religion or anything, but claiming the dance is religious always bothers me. I'd like to see more across-the-board accuracy in dance history. I encourage my students to do their own research but if they come across the same old myths again and again, they will seem to hold more weight. So, what do we do about that?

I think that for people just starting, it is best to sneak it in a little. This song is from, and usually is used for X style of dance. The gist of the song is.... That kind of stuff. They are learning with out really knowing that they are. Those that stick around for the long term will then want to learn more cause they have heard of some of the other styles and start asking about them.

I think pop culture has made a difference in what types of students sign up for belly dance.

What I'm about to say applies to the U.S. -I don't know whether it would be true of Germany.

In the late 1980's and early 1990's, belly dance was not a fad. People who signed up for classes had an interest specifically in belly dance. They may have liked a performance that they saw at a local restaurant, or maybe saw a dancer when they went to Egypt on vacation, or "always wanted to learn" it, or had a particular interest in the Middle East. So when these people came to classes, they were motivated to learn about the dance - not just the moves, but more.

Over the last 10 years, belly dance started to become a "fad" in pop culture. Natural Journeys released the exercise videos featuring Veena and Neena, and the twins appeared on a lot of morning shows to promote the videos. There was the Brazilian soap opera O Clon, there was the pop singer Shakira, there was a bit of belly dancing used in rap music videos, there was the "modern primitive" movement in larger pop culture which I think originated in San Francisco, and so on. Both Beyonce and Brittany Spears experimented a bit with using belly dance in their performances. The Red Elvises released their song "I Wanna See You Belly Dance" and Akon did their hiphop song "Shake Your Body Like a Belly Dancer". And of course there was the launch of Bellydance Superstars which included touring with Lollapalooza, having the dancers appear on morning shows, etc. The Bratz "genie" dolls were created and advertised heavily.

So, suddenly belly dance was making an appearance in pop culture in many ways. This made it seem cool. So lots of people started learning it simply because it was the cool thing to do. The kind of person who would learn belly dancing because it's currently fashionable is the kind of person who isn't learning the dance simply because they are interested in the dance. Such a person won't care about history and culture - they just want to learn how to fit in with the current trend.

Take heart, there are those of us students who appreciate the details and history. I wish I could get more!!!

ita with Shira.

I agree with Shira. However, I think the belly dancing fad has peaked. It's no longer the fitness class du jour, and those who just took it because they thought it would make them sexier seem to have moved on to pole dancing. The Middle Eastern music section at Borders has shrunk to a sliver of shelf space. So I wonder if this means there will be less students, but ones more interested in the culture or history. Has anyone noticed that or is it just wishful thinking?

Originally Posted by Linnyg

I think that for people just starting, it is best to sneak it in a little. This song is from, and usually is used for X style of dance. The gist of the song is.... That kind of stuff. They are learning with out really knowing that they are. Those that stick around for the long term will then want to learn more cause they have heard of some of the other styles and start asking about them.

Yeah I do this too! Sneak it in. Show them films and discuss it, talk about the styles of dances, history of a particular dance, influence of folkloric dances, etc. Just little by little I get my point across and teach them about the history and culture. As they advance I teach them more including the rhythms. I do go to Egypt a lot and this has actually caused me problems because I am gone for weeks and up to a month at a time, so some of my students have left to take from other instructors. Yet I often hear back from them about how they appreciate how much about the culture and history of the dance they learned from me. Not too many teachers teach it, and I do know the culture rather well because of all my first hand experience. I don't go there just for myself, but for them a well. I think if it is part of your instruction they will appreciate it no matter why they took the class.

While I agree with Shira on one level (Akon's an individual, not a band btw), I think it's fair to say that belly dance has had *other* periods of faddish popularity that tie directly into wider movements in popular culture. Though it wasn't BD as we know it, the Salome dancing craze of the early 20th century is linked to both the popularity of oriental themes in everything from interior design to advertising, and in the 50s and 60s the "sexual revolution" and a new fascination with the exotic also bolstered the real "birth" of BD culture in the US and probably other western cultures. BD was definitely promoted as a way to spice up your sex life at that time, not solely as a cultural art. But those who flocked to lessons - and you can see people DID flock if you look at footage of Jamila Salimpour's 70s classes, they were huge and I'm certain others were just as huge - were also often hooking into fantasies of otherness that tied nicely into the hippy fascination with antiquity and the east. Look at fashions of the late 60s and notice how strong the North African/ME influences are.

In the 70s and 80s I think BD was then reworked to suit the keep fit trend and also to suit growing ideas about women's culture and feminist solidarity.

All of these time periods and trends overlap, but I think what is key is that belly dance has been able to be plastic, and has been adapted to suit the zeitgeist of each time. I think there is probably *less* interest in the MEness/historicity of it now, when people first have a go, but that may be far too big a generalisation.

We could be going through a period when BD is not a fad, but that just means a few less people will pick it up and, like most of us, will become interested in the deeper aspects over time.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

While I agree with Shira on one level (Akon's an individual, not a band btw), I think it's fair to say that belly dance has had *other* periods of faddish popularity that tie directly into wider movements in popular culture.

Yup, I remember the 70's fad. I remember opening a Teen magazine and seeing a layout several pages in length on belly dancing. I didn't start dancing until 1981, myself.

I kept my chronology to the last 13 years since Zarka was commenting on changes she had observed over that time.

I think we've always had a steady involvement in belly dance by those students who have an interest in learning a dance form of another culture. That's the group that keeps the dance alive in between the fads.

I tend to agree with Zamira that the current fad has probably peaked. I think the fitness fad followers are in the process of drifting over to Nia and Zumba. I think the "I wanna be more sexy" faddists will drift over to neo-burlesque (not just pole dancing, but other incarnations of burlesque as well). Those dancers whose tribal fusion already has very little belly dance left in it will continue drifting farther away from belly dance and on to whatever strikes their fancy next - perhaps some to burlesque, others to hiphop, etc. In any event, I think the number of people who continue calling what they do "belly dance" will shrink, and we'll be seeing lower class enrollments. Heck, some teachers already are seeing lower class enrollments.

And the ones who are left will be those who came to belly dance out of interest in learning about a cultural dance form. This group will always appreciate background and history.

Yes I am quite fanatical about giving translations to songs we dance to. I actually think thats more important than going over what each rhythm is called-maybe thats another thread in the making. But I feel there are two things going on that need interpretation-music and lyrics.I do find people eyes glaze over and you can see them thinking why is she telling us this we just want to dance but how can you if you don't know what its about.

[QUOTE=BreaMorgiane;393638] and coming from me, not the goddess-oriented-fertility-dance thing (which I frankly find rather rude to pagans).

Having been involved in both the Pagan and ME Dance world for years, I'd have to say that if asked to tell you which group had more misinformation and more people that made make-believe into fact I'd need to stop and think about it. (Heard about the ancient Potato Cult-in Ireland? Or that there was once a great monotheistic Goddess religion?)

For years I'd do workshops at Pagan Festivals; had to eventualy give it up since I couldn't bear wasting anymore time knocking aside all the myths-beginning with it being 'wimmin's dance' and complaints about men being allowed to join in. (Personal rant/opinion: if you can only feel good about yourself when half the world is absent, then empowerment is still out of your grasp!). My personal favorite: the student that stopped coming to classes because I wouldn't teach her the 'historical recreation of the dance of Ishtar'. Honest: it seems that the removal of the seven articles of clothing in order to gain entrance to the underworld was actually the dance of Salome in the Bible which had been corrupted by the patriarchy.....yes, apparantly Oscar Wilde was a member of the patriarchy-and wrote the New Testament. ..l;,..cr.:

Well of COURSE Oscar was a member of the patriarchy! He was a white male!

He was also an Irish homosexual and therefore marginal, but we can't have everything. *pats Oscar*

I've seen reference to that Ishtar descent thingy with the dance of the seven veils before. It's quite pervasive. Because look! Seven! And veils! And mysticalness! It's obviously all connected!

From a student perspective, I enjoy learning about the culture and history. Honestly, I wish that we covered it more in class sometimes.

Originally Posted by kahaz

It seems that the removal of the seven articles of clothing in order to gain entrance to the underworld was actually the dance of Salome in the Bible which had been corrupted by the patriarchy.

Wendy Buonaventura comes out and says this in Serpent of the Nile.

[QUOTE=kahaz;396436
Having been involved in both the Pagan and ME Dance world for years, I'd have to say that if asked to tell you which group had more misinformation and more people that made make-believe into fact I'd need to stop and think about it. (Heard about the ancient Potato Cult-in Ireland?
[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha, this is my favorite. I teach a class to students on field trips about Peru and you'd not believe how many of the parent and *teachers* that sit in tell me that I'm wrong when I say that the potato is native to Peru and South America and not at all in Europe.

I hate to think there's even MORE of this stuff that I haven't yet encountered...

There's NOT an ancient potato cult myth is there? Please?

It's a SPUD. It is the Food of Oppression, though also very tasty! The ancient Irish ate beef and onions and pork and bread and fish and kale! And honey! And eggs! And magical gnats that turned into babies in their wombs!

I love to learn about bellydancing! I believe I still have a lot to learn...a lot...
I would really like to get the hang of rhythms better when listening to music. I really love to learn about other dancers as well.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

-snip-
And the ones who are left will be those who came to belly dance out of interest in learning about a cultural dance form. This group will always appreciate background and history.

I came to learn to dance - not about culture. I do enjoy hearing some background and history, because I like to learn. But overall I'm staying for the dancing and camaraderie in class.

I may change my mind. But I thought I'd throw that out there.

I have to credit my teacher Zahra Zuhair with giving me a love and respect for the dance and its culture. Grace, beauty, intelligence, respect and knowledge pours out of her at all times, both when she's speaking, dancing and explaining steps. When an inappropriate comment was made by a student in class it was met with what I would describe as "quiet scorn". Everyone got the message-- then she would smile and politely correct the viewpoint.
I found that women who were only there to fire up the bedroom were also the first ones to leave.
I sure miss studying with her!

I agree you have to bring students down to earth by including history in class, folkloric choreographies etc., you'll lose the ones who just want to wear Vegas-style costumes & dance to pop, but it's their loss in the long run.

Even in the SCA, a historical re-enactment group, it's an uphill battle to bring dancers "up to speed" on the dance in that time period. This year at Pennsic I'm co-hosting a Folkloric Dance Show, a new idea for Pennsic, but that really seems like a no-brainer to me. We're trying to bring folky back!

Anthea - I am soooooo eager to see that folklore show!!!!

I think it's all in the way it's presented. A good math teacher makes math interesting. A good economy teacher makes economy interesting. I've had bd teachers who were so boring, and others who I couldn't get enough of...