Thread: National Association for Teacher Certification in Middle Eastern Dance

can anyone give some information about this association?

National Association for Teacher Certification in Middle Eastern Dance

Thank you!

hmm, they sell dvd's too .one woman looks like the lady from the mag.mecda used to put its "news" into.
their mission statement and how they do it, sounds sincere.but one still wonders how "they" do this.

reading further , they say they "judge" you by your own abilities, not by who you studied with.the people doing this would have to be very diverse! and how is it done?
written test, performence,interview.
dang, something else to think about, lol.

They have a really good FAQ's section: FAQ's

If you're looking for authentic (for lack of a better term) feedback, I know Anthea/Kawakib has gone through this process.

cool, thanks kiyaana.i noticed you could click and read a bit from each, just ran out of time.i see my first client in 30 min, so i have to cut this out !

Also my teacher Morwenna Assaf can give you info
Art & Dance Academy, Oceanside, Belly Dancing Lessons
I won a competition that was part of this program judged by Mahmoud Reda and Miranda from Hawaii organized it.

There have been discussions about this more than once on Bhuz, as I recall. From what I remember (and I may not say this quite right), it was initiated by Z-Helene many years ago, in the days when it was impossible to find any other ME dance teacher certification programs, to help experienced teachers who required some kind of stamp of approval to teach at e.g. colleges. I.e., a serious, sincere and thoughtful project, and not some sort of immaculate certification voodoo.

I'd be careful. I know one of the founding board members and her profile is mostly self aggrandizement.

She only took lessons for a short period of time before she set out on her own. She was married for a short while to aTunisian drummer (green card) who helped her get jobs here and there and he did take her to Tunis.

Her students fall under the 6 mos wonder category and undercut more legitimate dancers. None of them have worked in the Arabic nightclubs.

Cedena herself is not highly thought of in the professional community and does not support other teachers in the area.

Belly Dance Instructor - The Navel Academy (Michigan)

The only other board member I have any knowledge of is Atea through her videos. Let's just say I'm not impressed.

While good dancers might not make good teachers, I don't see how you can certify other people to teach dance when your own dance skills are sub par.

The certification process doesn't teach you how to teach or anything like that. The board reviews your submission and determine if you meet there standards. It just gives you the documentation you need in case you want to teach an accredited course at a community college and the college wants to see some proof that you are qualified.

While I appreciate their effort, $300 is a lot of money for a piece of paper.

This bugs me (from the "about us" page):

Shakira is certified at Level I with the Suhaila Sulmopora School of Dance in California.

..c::

Originally Posted by norma

The only other board member I have any knowledge of is Atea through her videos. Let's just say I'm not impressed.

I know nothing about the other dancer you mentioned, but regarding Atea... I'm familiar with her videos too, and one point I think worth making is that these videos were created in the 1980's. I don't think it's fair to make assumptions about the skills/knowledge a dancer has today based on a product that shows what she was like 20 years ago.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I know nothing about the other dancer you mentioned, but regarding Atea... I'm familiar with her videos too, and one point I think worth making is that these videos were created in the 1980's. I don't think it's fair to make assumptions about the skills/knowledge a dancer has today based on a product that shows what she was like 20 years ago.

She's re-released those videos on DVD and sells them on her website...surely she must be satisfied with how they represent her!

~~Kimahri

Originally Posted by aziyade

This bugs me (from the "about us" page):

Shakira is certified at Level I with the Suhaila Sulmopora School of Dance in California.

..c::

LOL....must be her new last name...

Originally Posted by turkishdancer

LOL....must be her new last name...

Oh...maybe it's her alter ego? :P

You know, I know I'm being a beeatch about this, but don't you think that if you have let your certification lapse, you should probably remove the "I'm certified" stuff from your website?

There usually doesn't look like a lot of activity on their site, but they'll respond if you contact them. I did it, and recommend it because

1, it's better than nothing for those of us who've developed our own teaching method and are not using someone else's

2, the price is reasonable considering each reviewer is paid for their time (your submission includes video & syllabus; & even tho I write concisely, my syllabus was kind of extensive compared to what I saw on their site as examples)

3, the certification is pertinent to my focus as a dancer and performer, in other words it's a certification in my field, and not in aerobics or yoga, etc. as some dancers have

4, I thought the concept is worth supporting, considering where our field is today (which is "all over the place"); and perhaps it will evolve into something even better over time.

This means much more to me than going to a weekend workshop & getting a certificate, which I've actually seen! So I do treasure my certificate & have it hanging up where I look at it fondly from time to time ..l;,

Originally Posted by ravenadesigns

can anyone give some information about this association?

National Association for Teacher Certification in Middle Eastern Dance

Thank you!

Originally Posted by aziyade

This bugs me (from the "about us" page):

Shakira is certified at Level I with the Suhaila Sulmopora School of Dance in California.

..c::

..l;,..l;,

Ok does anyone else not see a problem with just sending a video, a syllabus, a check and getting "certified"?
I know there are other forms of movement out there that do this (for even less) but seriously how do they know you can teach without potenitally hurting someone? Among the other issues this presents?

Originally Posted by mmouse1534

Ok does anyone else not see a problem with just sending a video, a syllabus, a check and getting "certified"?
I know there are other forms of movement out there that do this (for even less) but seriously how do they know you can teach without potenitally hurting someone? Among the other issues this presents?

I don't know anything about this certification and I have emailed, but not received a response, asking for more information.

To be fair, they are using a model common in academia for publications and presentations. The model is called peer review. It is also part of many universities tenure structure. In this process your information is sent to a set of qualified reviewers who then judge it on the merits set forth for the specific publication/conference/faculty position.

The items they are requiring look fairly simple:
(1) Full syllabus and lesson plan for all courses at all levels
(2) DVD of you teaching so they can review your teaching ability/style
(3) DVD of you performing
(4) DVD of your students performing beginning, intermediate, and advanced choreographies taught and created by you

As I don't have knowledge of this specific certification, I can't speak to its quality at this time, but I can share that it is not an uncommon methodology in academia and would be one of the only types of evaluative certification that universities would immediately recognize. While a university may not know a specific teacher/school of belly dance, they do react favorably to the terminology and methods of peer review.

Originally Posted by mmouse1534

[snip]

From reading the website the concept is quite well thought through, if you ask me. I'm not certified by NATCMD or anything, but I was curious enough in regard to what it is to spend a couple of minutes on their site reading yesterday.

You send a video of yourself performing, a video of yourself improvising, a video of you teaching class, a video of your base level students performing, a video of your intermediate/advance level students performing...

I dont know about others, but I (IMHO as usual ) can see
bad habits" and when someone is causing injury through their teaching by just watching their students perform. Especially in a group because I can see what "bad habits" the dancers have in common quite easily. Further, I can also tell when the student/dancer is "fighting" the information they have been given with their body or pre-assumed perceptions of technique, look, feel, etc. and the "bad habit" is not coming from the teacher. HOWEVER, it's the teacher's responsibility to correct such perceptions.....IMHO of course.

As for "getting certified" for sending the stuff in - well, I would assume that if you're not up to par - you will be told and you will get a sheet telling you what you need to improve. I didnt see any instant get your "bellydancer certificate" today wording, but that may just be the way I read the site too... let me know if I'm mistaken.

I as a dancer/teacher/instructor dont see certifications as anything else than a goal for the individual dancer/teacher to work towards and achieve. Yes, you get a fine title to slap around in people's faces - but really, the only one benefiting from it is you, yourself and your presentation/work. It gives something concrete to work towards. On the other hand, universities, colleges and many other "established" institutions REQUIRE some kind of certificate (not caring about the quality or recognition of it - you just have to have one) in order for people to teach at the institution.

As a person with GREAT insight to immigration law for specialized personnel within non-traditional professions/fields in quite a few countries now - I can vouch for the fact that this "certification", "degree", "diploma" issue comes up in other areas as well. When the requirement is "unique" ability within a non-traditional field, or "unique" combination of expertise - it becomes VERY hard to document the necessity of entry to the country of so and so personnel...Most countries require a documentation of what benefits so and so worker/person will have to their country that no worker/person already in their country can't provide in order to even consider a work visa/immigrant visa.

Oh adding: these certificates really dont mean anything to anyone else unless they are concidered necessary documentation for a teaching position. (Or you are easily impressed by titles, logos and bla bla). Bellydancers in general wouldnt get that job anyway unless they had some kind of "other" degree or diploma to "help them in"....At least this is an effort towards providing some kind of validity to what we do into the educational system - the quality, the people involved etc I can not vouch for, but I can say that it is an effort in the right direction. Dont you agree?

It's like having written quotes on your website when you are performing artist...it doesn't reflect anything else than some person's perception. It doesnt verify quality, professionalism or anything - things that a video clip easily can. But we still sprinkle the quotes on our websites, dont we?

Titles and quotes etc are only worth something if there is/are some kind of set standard(s). In order to achieve that we have to get the dance into the teaching institutions...which require a set standard of sort for you to teach there...

This may be the "wrong" way to go about it according to the system - but it DOES get bellydancers in to the institutions, and then the rest can be "fixed" once bellydancers are inside the system. It's hard to achieve recognition from someone/something that doesn't even allow you access to the means you need to achieve that. (did that make sense at all?)

I've read thier website, I've done some reseach in the number of "certifications" out there. If they don't really mean anything, which in reality they don't. Then the ultimate goal is to become a better instructor in the end. IMO this should go beyond just sending a vid, a syllabus and check...
That is unless of course you are trying to get a quickie piece of paper ("certification") to provide those that are demanding it.

This may be the "wrong" way to go about it according to the system - but it DOES get bellydancers in to the institutions, and then the rest can be "fixed" once bellydancers are inside the system. It's hard to achieve recognition from someone/something that doesn't even allow you access to the means you need to achieve that. (did that make sense at all?)

Yes I understand except there ARE certifications out there that are GOOD! Yes without standards its is difficult but can't we be resposible for holding ourselves to those higher standards instead of letting the istitutions demand it?
If they really want a "certification" then get a good one, then you don't have to "fix" it when you get into those institutions...right?
Yes I know "in a perfect world"! :-)

Originally Posted by mmouse1534

I've read thier website, I've done some reseach in the number of "certifications" out there. If they don't really mean anything, which in reality they don't. Then the ultimate goal is to become a better instructor in the end. IMO this should go beyond just sending a vid, a syllabus and check...
That is unless of course you are trying to get a quickie piece of paper ("certification") to provide those that are demanding it.

Many certifications come into existence with that as their main purpose - to be a port of entry to an institution.

Originally Posted by mmouse1534

[snip]

Dare I ask which one it is that you are referring to that is universally accepted, accepted by university systems and is considered representative by most peers?

We hold ourselves to those higher standards indeed, but the institutions dont ask for standards, they ask for qualifications in form of a paper. who cares if you're Dina or whoever famous dancer - you aint getting to teach at an academic institution without your papers in order (it's like saying "I studied medicine - let me do surgery on you" when you dont have a degree to show).

In a perfect world there would be a formal education since age 4 within Middle Eastern dances, professional touring companies like the BDSS would out-number the numbers of beginner dancers, every dancer would be all about education and quality, everyone would have great self-confidence, nobody would have lack of integrity in their work, there would be peace in the Middle East, there would be no borders/racism/politics/discrimination... But, it's not a perfect world and we have to start SOMEWHERE to go in that direction.

What I find concerning is when dancers get their "levels" or "diplomas" or "recognition" or "compliments" and stop working all together and just have a cocky attitude based on their "merits" and dislike anything that they didnt do themselves.

Any type of approval causes people to not work, any lack of type of approval causes people not to work... evil cycle, here we go again? Nope, THAT's what we need to fight. And through that, ALL efforts will be focused on enhancing whatever quality of dance, certifications, diplomas etc are available out there.

We dancers are awesome at cutting down any remote effort in any direction - be it a good direction, bad direction, good direction - bad effort, bad direction - good effort, good effort, bad effort.... I'd say that in a perfect world - we'd ALL go get certified by all certification services that are available....and invade the concepts - no matter the quality of execution - and MAKE them good and better. Of course, it's not a perfect world - and I dont have 50.000 dollars to put where my mouth is right now either. LOL But, you see my point?

A peer-organization such as NATCMD is only as good as its participating peers...

The discussion could go onto whether there is a point in having competitions and organizations and classes even - without a standardized system. Well, I'm not going to quit dancing, teaching and so forth just because there is no standard that everyone is comfortable with....I'm going to truck along and push what efforts are out there UP and FORWARD in the hope that the efforts will pay off in the long run (no, I'm not looking to teach at a university) for the dance scene in general.

Discussions like these remind me a bit of the movie "The Prestige" where the illusionists compete to the point of death about something that is impossible to achieve/do.... or is it?

What do you think of the Sahra Saeeda "Journey Through Egypt" workshop?

I'm thinking of attending her 3 day intensive which will earn a "certificate".

Has anyone here gone to her workshops?

Sahra Saeeda

I did JTE 1 & 2 in January and am very glad I did. Well worth it.

Originally Posted by AMonjure

What do you think of the Sahra Saeeda "Journey Through Egypt" workshop?

I'm thinking of attending her 3 day intensive which will earn a "certificate".

Has anyone here gone to her workshops?

Sahra Saeeda

Originally Posted by mahsati

To be fair, they are using a model common in academia for publications and presentations. The model is called peer review. It is also part of many universities tenure structure. In this process your information is sent to a set of qualified reviewers who then judge it on the merits set forth for the specific publication/conference/faculty position.

I was going to mention this. The authority of a peer reviewed certification really is significant if you were to approach an academic institution. It's a world where if you want to get along with it you have to speak their language, you don't go in with your own unique language and ways of doing things and expect to be seen as legitimate.

With that in mind the certification isn't a bad idea, especially if a few more names with various qualification were on board.

Originally Posted by AMonjure

What do you think of the Sahra Saeeda "Journey Through Egypt" workshop?

I'm thinking of attending her 3 day intensive which will earn a "certificate".

Has anyone here gone to her workshops?

Sahra Saeeda

Anything Sahra does is worth it. Sahra's the closest anyone will ever get to be Farida Fahmy's protege. Farida was an active part of the development of Egyptian dance as we know it today and the stylization that lays beneath what most of us do today.

I consider Sahra one of the main veins of information out of Egypt, and Farida has given Sahra her personal concent to be the bridge between Farida and "the people".

I have immense respect for Sahra - and I dont say that lightly about anyone. So go to the seminar while they're available - you never know when she's going to get too busy for us mortals ;)

Certificates should be a proof of a teacher's desire to carry on learning.