Thread: Any advice on the turkish drop?

I have a big problem when im doing the drops - my feet. It hurts to (hm how can I explain this) bend them while going down to the floor and then bending them back in when ive reached the floor. Will this pain go away the more I repeat it?

Also all advice you guys have on that move is very welcommed! ,r:;

Pain is a usually a sign that you are doing something wrong, or that your particular body is not designed to do that particular move. Do not dance through pain. Pain is there for a very good reason!

Repeating a painful move many times is not going to make the pain go away. If anything it will make it worse.

Talk to your teacher about this, and ask her what you need to change, to make the move work for you in a sensible way.

Originally Posted by beafarhana

Pain is a usually a sign that you are doing something wrong, or that your particular body is not designed to do that particular move. Do not dance through pain. Pain is there for a very good reason!

Repeating a painful move many times is not going to make the pain go away. If anything it will make it worse.

Talk to your teacher about this, and ask her what you need to change, to make the move work for you in a sensible way.

I looked at it this way. When I started doing splits and floorwork it wasnt all comfertable in the beginning. I had to strech allot and repeat the steps allot. But with this move my feet just dont give up ..l;,
Im a teacher by the way (forgot to mention)...

Originally Posted by dansoz

I looked at it this way. When I started doing splits and floorwork it wasnt all comfertable in the beginning. I had to strech allot and repeat the steps allot. But with this move my feet just dont give up ..l;,
Im a teacher by the way (forgot to mention)...

There's the "pain" of used muscles - good pain - brief and goes away quickly. Then there is bad pain - which signifies damage - this is a warning to stop.

Contrary to what many people say not all people can do all moves. Sometimes genetics get in the way - some people's bodies will not adapt they will just break.

The Turkish drop is basically a bad move, but if you really want to do it and you are having trouble book a session with a sports physiotherapist and show them what you want to do and ask for an asssement as to what you can do to make it work. For technique, you may find a jazz or contemporary ballet teacher may be able to take you through a safe method of performing it (then again maybe not).

A Jazz teacher may be able to show you a Jazz drop with is a modified Turkish drop and much safer and more controlled. You have to be sure that your abs are strong and that you are able to engage them fully, otherwise this movement can do more damage than it is worth!

{{{HUGS}}}

I can do a Turkish Drop - however I do not practice it. If I do I hurt myself. Instead I stretch in the ending position. I haven't done it in awhile since I am doing mostly Egyptian Style but I used to spin and then slide into it using my inner thighs. I know a lot of people spin and then jump into it - that I can't do or would ever attempt to try. It is just like practing the splits - I need a good 4 weeks to stretch those muscles everyday and then I am ready. I really suggest working on flexability.

Originally Posted by kashmir

There's the "pain" of used muscles - good pain - brief and goes away quickly. Then there is bad pain - which signifies damage - this is a warning to stop.

Contrary to what many people say not all people can do all moves. Sometimes genetics get in the way - some people's bodies will not adapt they will just break.

.

I agree with Kashmir. It's VERY important to understand that not all bodies can do all moves. Some peoples *skeletons* are put together differently than others. I don't teach Turkish drops, but I have many yoga students who can't kneel with their feet under them because it hurts their ankles and the tops of their feet. In very few cases is this a matter of soft tissue flexibility that can be increased over time. Usually they're hitting *skeletal* resistance, where bone is hitting bone in the ankle joint. No amount of flexibility training will improve this.

If you work with someone who knows what they're doing, you may be able to find a variation. In yoga, we put a rolled blanket under the ankles or let the student have her toes curled under so the ankle isn't bending so far. I don't know what variation might work for a Turkish drop, but as I said I don't do them or teach them.

I'm not saying to give up hope -- if your ankle flexibility is limited because of tight muscies, stretching will help. But when you say you're feeling pain rather than stress, it's a clue to me that this problem might be skeletal. Google 'plantar flexion' to find out more about the joint and find exercises for stretching it, if you're interested.

I prefer a side drop -- jump up, land in a squat, lean onto one hand and extend the opposite leg. If you practice those three moves in quick succession smoothly, it's a very dramatic 'drop' but not a dangerous one.

Does anyone have any youtube examples of Turkish drop alternatives? I think that would be really interesting.

Here's Tanya Lemani going down to the floor. If you can find her (maybe the video is here somewhere on bhuz) dancing in the star trek clip for Kirk and his motley crew - I like the way she goes down to the floor there. She does it the same way but it's fast and not a drop at all - she seems to do it one leg at a time. (sorry for the ramble)
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yERTK_4AOUY&feature=related]YouTube - the great Tanya Lemani[/ame]

Originally Posted by jasani

Here's Tanya Lemani going down to the floor. If you can find her (maybe the video is here somewhere on bhuz) dancing in the star trek clip for Kirk and his motley crew - I like the way she goes down to the floor there. She does it the same way but it's fast and not a drop at all - she seems to do it one leg at a time. (sorry for the ramble)
YouTube - the great Tanya Lemani

What she does here could probably be done with toes curled under.

I agree with those who wrote above: if it hurts, don't do it. Your body is telling you something VERY important like "you're hurting me!!!!" and if you don't listen you will pay the price with long term pain and damage. No one can afford to risk that!

Talk to your teacher. If there isn't one near you, talk to a master instructor like the Turkish equivalent of Hadia or Sahra Saeeda, etc. I'm not a Turkish-style dancer so I don't know the highly esteemed dancers that well but I do know Artemise is a fantastic and highly respected dancer and researcher of authentic Turkish style. Why not write her and outright ask for her help? Who knows, maybe she's doing a workshop near you soon? http://www.serpentine.org/artemis/artemis.htm

It's cool to seek help through bhuz but for something so important as the well-being of your body I'd go straight to the source, a master Turkish style dancer like Artemise.

Here it is - Wolf in the fold... watch at :49 how she goes to the floor.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwGgq7lnX0s]YouTube - Star Trek: Project Infinity: July 18, 2267[/ame]

Originally Posted by jasani

Here it is - Wolf in the fold... watch at :49 how she goes to the floor.
YouTube - Star Trek: Project Infinity: July 18, 2267

Wow, that's really interesting.

It looks to me like she drops to one knee, then sort of twists - or maybe pivots her knees? - into the TD position. So it seems much easier and safer than a lot of the drops I've seen, but it looks great! I wish youtube had slowmotion!

I'm going to watch probably a dozen more times :) Thanks for posting!

Originally Posted by Hala Jamal

I agree with those who wrote above: if it hurts, don't do it. Your body is telling you something VERY important like "you're hurting me!!!!" and if you don't listen you will pay the price with long term pain and damage. No one can afford to risk that!

Talk to your teacher. If there isn't one near you, talk to a master instructor like the Turkish equivalent of Hadia or Sahra Saeeda, etc. I'm not a Turkish-style dancer so I don't know the highly esteemed dancers that well but I do know Artemise is a fantastic and highly respected dancer and researcher of authentic Turkish style. Why not write her and outright ask for her help? Who knows, maybe she's doing a workshop near you soon? Artemis home page

It's cool to seek help through bhuz but for something so important as the well-being of your body I'd go straight to the source, a master Turkish style dancer like Artemise.

Hi Hala
Im actually already in contact with Artemis but I didnt even think about asking her about this - now I will ..g.:

Originally Posted by jasani

Here it is - Wolf in the fold... watch at :49 how she goes to the floor.
YouTube - Star Trek: Project Infinity: July 18, 2267

Thats a nice one. Am I seeing wrong or is she first "sitting on her knees on the side" and then quick bending to the floor?

Anyone else have videos? Nice to see!

Originally Posted by LeylaFahada

Wow, that's really interesting.

It looks to me like she drops to one knee, then sort of twists - or maybe pivots her knees? - into the TD position. So it seems much easier and safer than a lot of the drops I've seen, but it looks great! I wish youtube had slowmotion!

I'm going to watch probably a dozen more times :) Thanks for posting!

I managed to stop-and-go to get a sense of it. She lowered herself onto her left knee first, then set her right knee down, then went into TD position. The danger here would be to create a twisting/torquing action at the knee during the coming down phase. I'd want to practice it all very slowly a bunch of times without the preliminary spin, then slowly with it, to be CERTAIN the spinning motion isn't being absorbed into the knee as you go down.

Knees are relatively fragile body parts, and women's knees in particular are structurally prone to damage because our thighbones come in at more of an angle than men's (due to the wider pelvis). Unlike shoulders and hips, medical science is NOT good at fixing bad knees yet. If you mess yours up, not only is your dance career over but you're in pain and limited in your activities for the rest of your life.

I can understand taking that risk for, say, a football career where there's lots of money and fame. But to make a few bucks at the falafel hut and impress the other dancers at a hafla? It's just not worth the risk to me.

Originally Posted by LeylaFahada

Wow, that's really interesting.

It looks to me like she drops to one knee, then sort of twists - or maybe pivots her knees? - into the TD position. So it seems much easier and safer than a lot of the drops I've seen, but it looks great! I wish youtube had slowmotion!

I'm going to watch probably a dozen more times :) Thanks for posting!

THAT is incredibly cool. Can't wait to try this!!! Thanks for posting!!!

Gawd, I want a mylar fringe costume now...

This is great! I like the look of it too. I no longer do or teach Turkish drops myself; you only have this one body and it's amazing how you'll regret that one thing you did with it because you thought you were invincible. However, if this is a safer alternative I might look into doing this instead! I do miss using the drop from time to time. ..g.:

Thank you Lauren! I did wonder about the torquing and the knees, myself. I'm too scared to do anything that might twist them in half!

But this is good advice. I won't be trying it anytime soon though!

ETA: Watching it again about 6 more times, it seems like she doesn't actually make contact with the floor with her left knee until she's in the layback position too. Friction with floor would be the greatest danger right?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I managed to stop-and-go to get a sense of it. She lowered herself onto her left knee first, then set her right knee down, then went into TD position. The danger here would be to create a twisting/torquing action at the knee during the coming down phase. I'd want to practice it all very slowly a bunch of times without the preliminary spin, then slowly with it, to be CERTAIN the spinning motion isn't being absorbed into the knee as you go down.

Knees are relatively fragile body parts, and women's knees in particular are structurally prone to damage because our thighbones come in at more of an angle than men's (due to the wider pelvis). Unlike shoulders and hips, medical science is NOT good at fixing bad knees yet. If you mess yours up, not only is your dance career over but you're in pain and limited in your activities for the rest of your life.

I can understand taking that risk for, say, a football career where there's lots of money and fame. But to make a few bucks at the falafel hut and impress the other dancers at a hafla? It's just not worth the risk to me.

Originally Posted by jasani

Here it is - Wolf in the fold... watch at :49 how she goes to the floor.

oooh, this is great. I don't think he makes contact till after she twists either. thanks!

If you can manage to pause and play the section, you can almost see the mechanics of the move and it does look like some rug burn would happen but it's interesting to see the mechanics. I would be more concerned about the chin and upper foot area though because you could fracture the little bones in the foot area.

Of course you should be really warmed up before trying this or any move like this.

This drop seems to be Lemani's signature thing, it's really graceful. She does it here, too:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjwNbJxnf_M]YouTube - Elvis Presley - Little Egypt.[/ame]

Anaheed also has a drop alternative, maybe similar to a jazz drop. It's here at 25 seconds:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTmRa2QediY]YouTube - Belly Dance - Classic Cabaret Floorwork with Anaheed[/ame]

Originally Posted by aziyade

Gawd, I want a mylar fringe costume now...

My mom's been after me to get/make one for 25 years . . .

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

My mom's been after me to get/make one for 25 years . . .

Deborah

Well then, get to it! And we want to see pictures! ..l;,

I do Turkish drops almost every weekend or every other weekend during my shows especially to live music where the bazouki player knows that is my turn to do drop, he plays fast and stops with my drop.
I was very afraid to even start doing it at first. Not only I did not know where to start but it looked very difficult.
I just had to do it...I completely fell in love with the strength and the power of the move...
Now I can do it from full turns or from standing (that is not really Turkish drop but it looks really cool, like you start backbending and you drop completely on your back)
so how I started::::
exercises and stretches you need to do:
anything strengthen your quads and harmstring, your abs and your lower back
yoga stretches, like camel, bow, cobra, one knee stand
you can start slow from like backbending
with using only your knees and quads...you need to start bending your knees and quads slowly to the floor on your back.
while you are doing this come off the heels...so you need to be lifting yourself at the same time while you are slowly bending back, so you are on the ball of your feet.


Delilah has floorwork video that she shows the Turkish drop slowly but she does not explain how to do.

I think I should make an instructional video with some Turkish/American cabaret floorwork including exercises and the ultimate Turkish drop ;-)
so now after really warming up your quads, and back and feel comfortable with going to backbend and be able to curl your feet under your legs...start turning and dropping, use knee pads and do it on the bed or thick mat like gymnast do.

from there all you need courage...

Other tip: when you drop use your inner tighs dont drop on your knees, protect your knees, you can also use the inner upper arms to slow you down while you are landing on your back.

Your back and bottom and legs should touch the floor at the same time like a whole unit....


I would also use some shark cartilage, MSM and trauma sprays in case of emergency injuries...
better perform with harem pants when you wear knee pads...
I dont but Tribal dancers do most of the time when they do drop from standing...

Hope all this helps.
maybe I can come to Sweden to give some workshops ;-)

I know Ulku and Sabriye Tekbilek from there....

Originally Posted by turkishdancer

I do Turkish drops almost every weekend or every other weekend during my shows especially to live music where the bazouki player knows that is my turn to do drop, he plays fast and stops with my drop.
I was very afraid to even start doing it at first. Not only I did not know where to start but it looked very difficult.
I just had to do it...I completely fell in love with the strength and the power of the move...
Now I can do it from full turns or from standing (that is not really Turkish drop but it looks really cool, like you start backbending and you drop completely on your back)
so how I started::::
exercises and stretches you need to do:
anything strengthen your quads and harmstring, your abs and your lower back
yoga stretches, like camel, bow, cobra, one knee stand
you can start slow from like backbending
with using only your knees and quads...you need to start bending your knees and quads slowly to the floor on your back.
while you are doing this come off the heels...so you need to be lifting yourself at the same time while you are slowly bending back, so you are on the ball of your feet.


Delilah has floorwork video that she shows the Turkish drop slowly but she does not explain how to do.

I think I should make an instructional video with some Turkish/American cabaret floorwork including exercises and the ultimate Turkish drop ;-)
so now after really warming up your quads, and back and feel comfortable with going to backbend and be able to curl your feet under your legs...start turning and dropping, use knee pads and do it on the bed or thick mat like gymnast do.

from there all you need courage...

Hope all this helps.
maybe I can come to Sweden to give some workshops ;-)

I know Ulku and Sabriye Tekbilek from there....

Big thanks for your answer Dilek. Do you by the way have a video of you dancing on youtube or such where I could see you doing the drop?
Actually I arrange bellydance trips to Turkey every year for scandinavian people (and others who finds their own flight). The trip is a non profit bellydance trip where we mostly study turkish bellydance and folklore but also arabic bellydancing. We have lectures, lessons by the water, belly dance boat trips, turkish nights and much more at a very low cost so everyone can take part. Are you in turkey in the summers? Maybe we can talk about you teaching there 2010 (2009s summer schedule is full).

If anyone want to know more about the trips you can just ask here and look at our page (its in swedish) but there is pictures Dansöz Oryantal Dans (look in the menu under "RESOR").

Are you sure Ulku and Sabriye Tekbilek are teachers/dancers in sweden? Never heard of them. Not much people doing the turkish style here.

Kendine iyi bak kiz

i do these drops often, but i am only 5' 1".how one is built sorta dictates ones step list.i have a drop on youtube, but do not know how to post it.on my dvd, it is in slow motion.i come down on the insides of my feet, sitting in that position helps.

Originally Posted by dansoz

I have a big problem when im doing the drops - my feet. It hurts to (hm how can I explain this) bend them while going down to the floor and then bending them back in when ive reached the floor. Will this pain go away the more I repeat it?

Also all advice you guys have on that move is very welcommed! ,r:;

coming back to the original post -
I think I might have this same feeling you do. does it just ache/burn for a little while up the front of the ankle area, then goes away? in my troupe we do conditioning and some of the strengthening we do is in the final pose of a turkish drop. we warm up a lot first, and then stand on our knees, and lean/backbend back to the ground. then we do hip lifts, undulations, twists, shimmies. then we all try to come up without using our hands (OW! major thigh burn!!). and then we all groan because our feet feel stuck in the pointed position. then we all go into downward dog to counterstretch - and then we're all better. :)

I don't feel like I'm doing anything to hurt my feet. after the counterstretch everything feels fine. and in performance (we have a floorwork section in one of our group choreos), we go down and back up in a snap and with the adrenalyn, nobody feels a thing.

I'll also add that I'm 40 and have never, in 20+ years been able to do floorwork like this. :) it's been all about repetition.

just had a thought - if the pain is in the top of the foot while you're on the ground - where it feels like all of your weight is pressing on your nerves, and it goes away when you get off of your feet - this will eventually (after tons of repetition) lessen. I took a japanese tea ceremony class in college where we had to sit in seiza - on your shins with the feet pointed and not the toes curled under. I cannot TELL YOU the torture that was. but after a quarter, my feet got used to it, and to this day (10 years later) I don't have any issues with it anymore. but if that's it - they make these things for ballet dancers that are meant to give a rounded shape to the top of the foot so it looks like they have a high arch (like falsies for your feet! ha!) - it's basically a pad that fits on top of your foot. you can get them to pad your feet for bellydance floorwork.

yes sitting in the position how you drop should help with just stretch...overall feet stretch with yoga sitting stretches with toes curled under is a big help for feet stretch as well.
I would just practice laying back with knees bent under with feet side facing down every day until you feel comfortable.
I have boney feet it hurts me too, but I learnt how not to land on my feet hard instead on slowing down with upper arms support and laying on upper back and inner thighs

Originally Posted by elisagamal

coming back to the original post -
I think I might have this same feeling you do. does it just ache/burn for a little while up the front of the ankle area, then goes away? in my troupe we do conditioning and some of the strengthening we do is in the final pose of a turkish drop. we warm up a lot first, and then stand on our knees, and lean/backbend back to the ground. then we do hip lifts, undulations, twists, shimmies. then we all try to come up without using our hands (OW! major thigh burn!!). and then we all groan because our feet feel stuck in the pointed position. then we all go into downward dog to counterstretch - and then we're all better. :)

I don't feel like I'm doing anything to hurt my feet. after the counterstretch everything feels fine. and in performance (we have a floorwork section in one of our group choreos), we go down and back up in a snap and with the adrenalyn, nobody feels a thing.

I'll also add that I'm 40 and have never, in 20+ years been able to do floorwork like this. :) it's been all about repetition.

just had a thought - if the pain is in the top of the foot while you're on the ground - where it feels like all of your weight is pressing on your nerves, and it goes away when you get off of your feet - this will eventually (after tons of repetition) lessen. I took a japanese tea ceremony class in college where we had to sit in seiza - on your shins with the feet pointed and not the toes curled under. I cannot TELL YOU the torture that was. but after a quarter, my feet got used to it, and to this day (10 years later) I don't have any issues with it anymore. but if that's it - they make these things for ballet dancers that are meant to give a rounded shape to the top of the foot so it looks like they have a high arch (like falsies for your feet! ha!) - it's basically a pad that fits on top of your foot. you can get them to pad your feet for bellydance floorwork.

THATS THE EXACT FEELING! Yes the pain goes away directly when I get out of the position but as long as the weight is pushing on the foot its pain. Do you know any internetshop that sells thoose pads?
Thank you for your answer!