Thread: My first encounter with perception limiting my opportunities!

,f:: I'm not happy! I just spoke with a woman at the University here about offering a personal development course in Bellydance. Her response was "I'm just not sure that's in line with our values here" WHAT??? So we don't value diversity and fitness and liberation? ,m::

I told her I felt like some perceptions were colored by Hollywood's portrayal of "bellydance" and attempted to share some education about Middle Eastern culture and history. I pitched the class as a fitness class, focused on learning musical styles, history, culture, and developing core strength. I also told her if she was uncomfortable with calling the class "bellydance" she could call it "Middle Eastern Dance". ,m:: She interrupted me and said "I'm sure you're right and there's a lot of culture and all, but I'll have to justify this to the dean".

AAAAAA!!!

That's really something because here in the Chicago suburbs they offer bellydance as fitness classes and as a cultural class at some colleges here. So maybe they should start their research here!

Worse yet, at some potential venues they don't want you to say "belly dance," but at others they're just fine with "belly dance" but they don't want you to say, "Middle East!" (cuz you know that's that place with the wars and the bombs and the religious extremists and all . . .) I've run into that one, too.
Rosette

Originally Posted by Fotia

That's really something because here in the Chicago suburbs they offer bellydance as fitness classes and as a cultural class at some colleges here. So maybe they should start their research here!

I know. I told her "you know, many universities across the country offer bellydance as a fantastic low-impact exercise" and also pointed out that OUR OWN CAMPUS has offered bellydance at the International House. I also mentioned that bellydance is most certainly no racier than latin dance. Her response? "oh, well, we're just really branching out these days I guess (uncomfortable cough) but I just don't know if that is something we want to offer as part of our program" ,m:: She also insinuated that I might be competing with other dance programs....but the BALLROOM classes offered won't be competing with the 3 other ballroom dance studios in town? In fact, I would usher any students who wished to continue INTO my own instructor's program when the session was finished, which would BOOST her business! Ugh. I'm just sad, angry, and disgusted. ,m::

Just another note, I also offered to send her some additional historical information, some articles about the misconceptions revolving around bellydance, and some examples of programs offered at other universities. She interrupted me and informed that that she would read over my proposal and get back to me. Right.

Ignorant Terd!!!!!

There's a lady (I'm blanking on the name, sorry!) who taught belly dance (tribal) at my alma mater, Smith College. Smith tends to be socially progressive, but it's a serious institution.

This is how you make this happen. Tell a bunch of ladies about your idea. Then have them drop multiple suggestions in the suggestion boxes around campus or just have them call this lady and ask "do you offer bellydance". They change their mind when they see an interest.

Sad - I know - but $$ talks and they are willing to do it if there is a demand. Show the demand!!

Originally Posted by indigostars

There's a lady (I'm blanking on the name, sorry!) who taught belly dance (tribal) at my alma mater, Smith College. Smith tends to be socially progressive, but it's a serious institution.

Donna Mejia. I'm enrolling in her classes at Smith this fall (yay!).

Sonja, I'm sorry this happened to you! That woman you had to deal with sounds really closed minded.

Originally Posted by Sonja2

Just another note, I also offered to send her some additional historical information, some articles about the misconceptions revolving around bellydance, and some examples of programs offered at other universities. She interrupted me and informed that that she would read over my proposal and get back to me. Right.

Yeah, when you learn to speak the complicated language of Ignoramus (the language common among bitter, angry admins who lack power to make business decisions but brandish what little authority they have like an iron fist), this is one of the first translations you'll encounter:

"I'll review your proposal and get back to you."

In plain English, this means: "Go f*ck yourself. I'm busy eating bonbons and reading celebrity gossip blogs on company time. How dare you interrupt me?"

"Bellydance is too racy" can also be translated into the following: "My deadbeat, lame-O husband would probably have a cow if he found out that I secretly want to learn bellydance. Is it so wrong that I'm secretly fascinated by Dark Seductive Dances of the Terrorist Land?"

Believe me, I became fluent in Ignoramus during the brief 7 months that I worked in radio sales. Gatekeepers suck. In fact, one kicked me out of the Hair Club For Men and I'm still sore.

Originally Posted by Sonja2

Just another note, I also offered to send her some additional historical information, some articles about the misconceptions revolving around bellydance, and some examples of programs offered at other universities. She interrupted me and informed that that she would read over my proposal and get back to me. Right.

This person is only one person. I doubt very seriously that her attitude is broadly shared at your institution, or even within her department. I would suggest not giving up. Bring her a syllabus or lesson plan that shows the amount of techique, musicality, and cultural info that goes into the class -- or if you have already done this just follow up and make sure she realy is reading over your materials. Also a video clip if you have one.

I teach dance at and am a tenured faculty at a university. And I can tell you that one thing you have going for you at a university is channels to protest decisions like this, and generally some kinds of balance of power. Also people's "values" (her word) will generally cave in the face of controversy/bad PR. Her word is not the last. If reason fails, tell her you will contact the ombudsman or the school newspaper to complain that your course has not been given due consideration because of her personal biases and ignorance. Or go over her head. Perhaps *you* should contact the dean?

ITA with Sedonia.

Going back to re-read your post, I want to know what this woman's title was. Does she make the decisions or is she just an angry, bitter secretary?

If she's not directly involved in the decision-making process, screw her. You'd be better off navigating the structure to get to THE person who coordinates the university's class offerings, instead of some gatekeeper whose specific lot in life is to screen calls on the basis of ignorance or not wanting to be bothered. These people are the worst, often rude, snippy and resistant to anyone who might offer any sort of mutually beneficial business relationships. They are the reason why so many people loathe making cold calls!

Do some research, either by asking other university employees or by checking on the website, and make sure you're dealing with the correct person. I can't tell you how many times at my last job I've been shot down by a nasty admin, only to end up having a fruitful conversation with the V.P. of Marketing if I did some research, called back and asked for them by name.

It's worth a shot, at least.

Yeah, go over her head! As Satin mentioned, she most likely isn't the last word for the department.

Although I can't be 100% certain, the small Lutheran university from where daughter #1 graduated (and daughter #2 is enrolled, and from where I also graduated) would probably welcome such a class; I did a "cultural info" presentation 3 different years there.

Then again, this particular small Lutheran university is an institution of higher education of the "most liberal" branch of the Lutheran church in the United States . . .

Deborah

I find it surprising that a university would not consider bellydance, or Middle Eastern dance to fit within its values. My university valued things like cultural diversity, artistic expression, physical fitness, history, musical programs, etc.

I second Sedonia's idea of contacting student publications. Student newspapers tend to love any whiff of discrimination or hypocrisy on campus. It makes for much righteous indignation, which makes for great clips for your summer internship application. (I say that affectionately, as a former student journalist myself). Of course, I recommend that after you've taken more diplomatic actions.

Also, are there other groups on campus that you could work with to possibly help sway the administration for you? Are there, say, ethnic or folk dance clubs, other dance programs, cultural diversity organizations, a women's center or other women's organization, a campus drumming group, health/fitness clubs, or the like that could be part of your target audience? I'm wondering if it might be possible to reach out to those students, gauge their interest, and use their interest as a springboard to convincing this staff member that your classes would be an excellent addition to their campus.

Also, if an organization was interested in sponsoring you to teach a lesson at one of their meetings or events, give a demonstration, etc., that might help stir up support on campus.

Hey Sonja, I hear ya'... of course we live in the heart of the bible belt.
I had the same thing said to me by the person who organizes the entertainment for CultureFest of all things.

Don't let this go! Tell her YOU can talk to the dean. Offer to give them a video, or invite them to see a demo performance. Send them some brief reference materials (not a book) you have written on the subject.
Point out the colleges which already offer the dance. Etc.

Originally Posted by Sonja2

Just another note, I also offered to send her some additional historical information, some articles about the misconceptions revolving around bellydance, and some examples of programs offered at other universities. She interrupted me and informed that that she would read over my proposal and get back to me. Right.

Deliver it IN PERSON. Dress conservatively. Talk to her in person.

Originally Posted by basil1

I had the same thing said to me by the person who organizes the entertainment for CultureFest of all things.

..c::..cr.:

That. Is. So. Sad. I'm sorry!!! That really sucks, Holly. *sigh* Hey...(unrelated) I'm pm-ing you about the Boz/Flemming workshop...

I'm not giving up yet. My sweet husband was also really aggravated on my behalf & has been encouraging me to go over her head. Between the 2 of us we have 5 degrees from that University, and we donate to various programs.

My current plan is to give her a week to "look over" my proposal (which does include a complete lesson plan, complete with discussions of ME history and lessons on rhythms and culture). I will then call her back and discuss the course with her again. If she sounds unsure for reasons that relate to the "appropriateness" of the course, I'll ask for the number of the dean of professional programs/personal development and I'll offer to speak to him/her myself. In the meantime I'm going to see if I can get some support from people around me, but we'll see...unfortunately most of the ladies I know already dance!!!

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Deliver it IN PERSON. Dress conservatively. Talk to her in person.

Good idea. I think I will. On my raciest day I look about as "racy" and "inappropriate" as a Strawberry Shortcake doll. ..l;,

Originally Posted by ssipes

Or go over her head. Perhaps *you* should contact the dean?

I agree with Sedonia. If your university has something like an office of diversity and equal opportunity, you might contact them as well to report that you're encountering discrimination from a university employee against this ethnic dance form.

Originally Posted by indigostars

There's a lady (I'm blanking on the name, sorry!) who taught belly dance (tribal) at my alma mater, Smith College. Smith tends to be socially progressive, but it's a serious institution.

Harvard, Yale, and Princeton also all offer recreational Middle Eastern dance classes and have belly dance student organizations. Columbia hosted the first Ivy League Intercollegiate Middle Eastern Dance Conference this past November.

The administrator you mention can hardly defend an argument that institutions of higher education in general hold belly dance to be counter to their values.

Very true. I'm going to try to work with her, first, to assuage her fears and educate her at the same time. If I'm unable to work with her because she has misconceptions, then I'll elevate it to someone above her head. I'd like to be able to work it out with her, if I can, and hopefully win her over in terms of understanding. That's part of education, I think.

This sucks. And it's why I get so frustrated. Flyers about my show were too 'racy' for the bulletin board at my local Borders store (they showed our BACKS!) Art festivals that feature other performing arts don't want us. I am teaching a 'community' sort of class for the local community college next fall, but my pics in costume were to racy for their program book (hello -- I'm wearing more than your cheerleaders. Students come to class showing more skin than that!)

They think it's a seductive dance, plain and simple. It's not based on anything real, but on a Homer Simpson cartoon, a James Bond film, and an episode of Charlie's Angels they saw once.

Ummm... UCLA and many other UC and CSU schools offer advanced degrees in Middle Eastern Dance & Music Ethnology. I am thinking if a highly thought of international University and University system recognizes this art form as valid, there are large trucks to be driven through the holes in her argument.

One though: you might want to do a little bit of research and compile course descriptions from other colleges and universities which offer Belly dance either as part of their regular curriculum or via their extension of recreation departments. Adds weight to the argument.

{{{HUGS}}}

{{{HUGS}}}

I am going to play the devils advocate here. Universities and colleges are feeling the budget crunch. Not that a belly dance class wouldn't be a money maker and pay for itself, but more and more institutions must justify everything regardless of its intrinsic value. If the university is private, with a conservative mission statement, board, and alumni then administrators may need to be circumspect about any new programs so as not to jeapordize funding for other areas. Sometimes an administrator may personally be on board, but unable to rock the boat for many reasons.

This is not to say that you didn't do a great job presenting your proposal. You might think of other avenues involving the university where you could teach a class--student associations for example, the Greek association, international student groups, dance department, recreational therapy department, etc.

Souzan

Donna Meijer isn't just doing a recreational class. She's teaching a for credit class.

I didn't realize she was there still. I heard that she was there only for a one year job. Good for her.

Another suggestion may be to talk to the dance department head. When I did an independent study in Middle Eastern dance (one year prior to Donna Meijer arriving at the school), I talked to the dance department head, who was very helpful

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Deliver it IN PERSON. Dress conservatively. Talk to her in person.

I second this!!! Dress professionally & meet with the Department dean.

I have worked in Student Affairs for a few years and have found that if you meet with the dean directly you will get more of a solid result/response. Put together a formal presentation (preferably powerpoint), with the facts to back up the reasons why they need the class, which other universities in their peer group offer the same types of classes, you can't go wrong. Also definately show them that the students WANT this class, how do you do that... get some student leaders to back you up & come to the meeting with you.

Good Luck... YOU CAN DO IT!!!,r:;

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Ummm... UCLA and many other UC and CSU schools offer advanced degrees in Middle Eastern Dance & Music Ethnology. I am thinking if a highly thought of international University and University system recognizes this art form as valid, there are large trucks to be driven through the holes in her argument.

One though: you might want to do a little bit of research and compile course descriptions from other colleges and universities which offer Belly dance either as part of their regular curriculum or via their extension of recreation departments. Adds weight to the argument.

{{{HUGS}}}

{{{HUGS}}}

WHich schools offer those degrees? I'm PM-ing you Tahiradance. ..l;,

Originally Posted by Souzan

I am going to play the devils advocate here. Universities and colleges are feeling the budget crunch. Not that a belly dance class wouldn't be a money maker and pay for itself, but more and more institutions must justify everything regardless of its intrinsic value.

I completely understand the financial aspect. I work in close contact with a university campus and I know it's not a pretty picture. But the organizer of this program didn't cite budget issues as the reason for her rejection. I would think citing a budget crunch would be a foolproof way for a university to reject all kinds of proposals it found objectionable without getting much argument. If someone tells you the money isn't there, you don't have much room to argue.

To be sure, the university doesn't have to let Sonja teach there in their program. But as a business person, she's smart to be persistent in her pursuit of new avenues.

Originally Posted by Sonja2

In the meantime I'm going to see if I can get some support from people around me, but we'll see...unfortunately most of the ladies I know already dance!!!

I would think these people would be excellent boosters for your cause. If they already dance, then they can attest to how this dance form might be a positive addition to their campus, your knowledge and abilities as a teacher, etc.

Originally Posted by Souzan

I am going to play the devils advocate here. Universities and colleges are feeling the budget crunch. Not that a belly dance class wouldn't be a money maker and pay for itself, but more and more institutions must justify everything regardless of its intrinsic value. If the university is private, with a conservative mission statement, board, and alumni then administrators may need to be circumspect about any new programs so as not to jeapordize funding for other areas. Sometimes an administrator may personally be on board, but unable to rock the boat for many reasons.

Souzan

This is a state funded institution...

Also, this is a "continuing ed" program, so it's sort of a contract-type position, not a funded position. It's paid for by fees.