Thread: Working with students of all nationalities and easing potential culture clash

Hi -

I'm relatively new to teaching dance, and I'm seeking input on how to work with students who are Egyptian (or are from other Middle Eastern/North African countries) by nationality, and want to learn more about dancing technique, but are skeptical of American teachers (i.e., says the student last week, because I'm not Egyptian and I don't speak Arabic). How do I win their trust? I'm fully aware that I "speak" this dance with an American accent, and I differentiate in class between what I know to be Egyptian (or Turkish, etc.) technique and styles that are more American, but I'm not quite sure what else I can do to keep everyone in class comfortable and happy. Any suggestions?

That's a hard question. You can tell them that in this class you will teach the moves you like or think are important as they were taught to you, but that's all you can do...they will have to choose later what moves and technique they like best when they dance for themselves at home or with friends. Also that no one teacher or dancer is the be-all and end-all of bellydance (or any kind of dance), so if they are looking for a guru, you aren't it...but you're sure they can FIND someone who sets themselves up as a guru if that's what they want. ;)

I would share LOTS of knowledge. Many Egyptians who don't study dance, while they intuitively know how something "feels" they don't necessarily understand the breakdown. For example, they know what a beledi progression IS, but have they ever thought about the breakdown? How a slow build or fast build effects the dancer (and audience), how the taqsim instrument effects the mood, what makes a beladi good for performance. They know people use an asaya to saidi- but do they know how to hold it properly, move their wrists as they use the stick to frame, do they know about building up to twirling, not just wham, bam, spin right away? I think if you show that you know and understand the details MORE than they have ever thought them through (despite "speaking" them with an American accent) they will learn to trust you.

I might get kinda riled up here, so please pardon me if I come across a bit harsh.

When I teach a class, regardless of who is in the class, I am the expert. My students, whether they're from Hoboken or Haifa, or anywhere in between, have come to me for instruction.

I discuss a bit about the style of BD that I teach, and most people look like they don't understand a word I'm saying because they don't know there are different styles. Again, it doesn't matter whether they are White Anglo Saxon Protestants born in the corn belt of America or not; folks born and raised in Egypt generally only know about Egyptian dance. The same with folks from Turkey, etc. Assuming, of course, that they know anything about BD at all . . .

If I teach the technique for a movement that is very Egyptian-y, then I mention that. If I teach another movement with more of a Turkish flavor, I mention that.

I am very willing to ask cultural questions (and realize it is the POV of that person standing in front of me) or language questions of ME-born or culturally-raised students. But I don't teach folks from "over there" any differently than I do anybody else.

Deborah

Originally Posted by da Sage

You can tell them that in this class you will teach the moves you like or think are important as they were taught to you, but that's all you can do...they will have to choose later what moves and technique they like best when they dance for themselves at home or with friends.

That's a really helpful suggestion - I always try to let them know that this is what I was taught, and there are many ways to do this, but I like the idea of also emphasizing that ultimately, they choose what they take (though that choice needs to be as informed as possible). Thanks!

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

I would share LOTS of knowledge...I think if you show that you know and understand the details MORE than they have ever thought them through (despite "speaking" them with an American accent) they will learn to trust you.

I hope so. I do try to share what I know; in the case of this particular student, though, I think it was a test of cultural "authenticity" - that's what she was looking for. Being American, in her book I'm technically an outsider, and so I think she wasn't sure I was worth her time, no matter what I did. That makes me wonder to what extent the problem isn't mine, if I'm already doing everything I can. Thank you for your ideas! That's a different way to spin it, and may very well prove helpful.

Originally Posted by casbahdance

I might get kinda riled up here, so please pardon me if I come across a bit harsh.

When I teach a class, regardless of who is in the class, I am the expert. My students, whether they're from Hoboken or Haifa, or anywhere in between, have come to me for instruction.

I discuss a bit about the style of BD that I teach, and most people look like they don't understand a word I'm saying because they don't know there are different styles. Again, it doesn't matter whether they are White Anglo Saxon Protestants born in the corn belt of America or not; folks born and raised in Egypt generally only know about Egyptian dance. The same with folks from Turkey, etc. Assuming, of course, that they know anything about BD at all . . .

If I teach the technique for a movement that is very Egyptian-y, then I mention that. If I teach another movement with more of a Turkish flavor, I mention that.

I am very willing to ask cultural questions (and realize it is the POV of that person standing in front of me) or language questions of ME-born or culturally-raised students. But I don't teach folks from "over there" any differently than I do anybody else.

Deborah

Harsh with me or harsh with your students? No really, I appreciate your frankness. I guess my question, to an extent, has to do with authority and (I mentioned this in another post) perceived authenticity. But it also has to do with what happens when those students from Hoboken and Haifa are side by side in a classroom, and the Haifa student challenges the teacher, and this is perceived as rude by the Hobokens, and though the teacher can smooth things over, there is still an awkwardness and a separation between the students. I think it has something to do with cultural ownership and identity...do you have any thoughts on that?

Originally Posted by theoneinblue

But it also has to do with what happens when those students from Hoboken and Haifa are side by side in a classroom, and the Haifa student challenges the teacher, and this is perceived as rude by the Hobokens, and though the teacher can smooth things over, there is still an awkwardness and a separation between the students. I think it has something to do with cultural ownership and identity...do you have any thoughts on that?

That's a challenging dilemma. I think there are definitely issues of cultural ownership and identity at play.

One thing I've tried to do when I've had Middle Eastern people in my classes is to encourage them to share their personal perpectives on the music, personal experiences with the dance in social situations, etc. In this way, their identity as representatives of the cultures is recognized, while at the same time the non-Middle Eastern students have a chance to learn the insiders' perspective (and this "de-mystifies" Middle Eastern people for them).

Really I think the main thing is letting Middle Eastern students know that their perspective is unique and valuable, while reminding them that there is a difference between social dancing and professional dancing.

Nisaa

Well obviously they have respect for you and your knowledge to begin with when they decided to take your course. As Deborah says. You are the authority! Doesn't mean that students whether from the Middle East or middle America can't contribute some knowledge too if they have it to share. I don't ask anybody anything because I know what I am talking about, but if any of them wants to share some relevant info they are welcome to.

It is rare that Egyptians and other Middle Eastern girls/women even take belly dance (at least in my area and from my experience) because they usually feel they know it all already and don't need to take a class. But the ones that do want to learn good technique and realize that there is a difference between social dancing and professional dancing will seek out a good instructor. They can turn out to be wonderful students because of their background or difficult ones because of it. But again, if they take the class to begin with they already are looking up to you to teach them something, so just do it as you would anybody else. Also like Deborah says, I don't teach them or treat them any different than anybody else in the class. For me a student is a student and I am the instructor.

Originally Posted by nisaasaintlouis

Really I think the main thing is letting Middle Eastern students know that their perspective is unique and valuable, while reminding them that there is a difference between social dancing and professional dancing.

Nisaa

Ah, there's a line that may be useful to draw: social dancing and professional dancing are not necessarily the same thing. Such a distinction maybe allows for Middle Eastern students to feel like their territory, so to speak, is not being encroached upon, but that they also have something to learn...that's really helpful! Thanks!

Originally Posted by bellydancewear

You are the authority!...I don't teach them or treat them any different than anybody else in the class. For me a student is a student and I am the instructor.

It's an admirable thing to try to keep things democratic among students in the classroom, but I wonder if it's the teacher-student relationship, the very statement of authority that some Middle Eastern students perceive as a claim of cultural ownership. That's not to say that an instructor has no authority, of course, and I'm just starting to develop my confidence as an instructor. I'm just trying to puzzle out where the authority/ownership line is, and how that line can be negotiated. As you and Nisaa both point out, it seems like a really useful thing to distinguish between social dancing and professional dancing - it lets ME students keep ownership, so to speak, while allowing the instructor the authority to do her/his job...thanks for your ideas!

Originally Posted by theoneinblue

Harsh with me or harsh with your students? No really, I appreciate your frankness. I guess my question, to an extent, has to do with authority and (I mentioned this in another post) perceived authenticity. But it also has to do with what happens when those students from Hoboken and Haifa are side by side in a classroom, and the Haifa student challenges the teacher, and this is perceived as rude by the Hobokens, and though the teacher can smooth things over, there is still an awkwardness and a separation between the students. I think it has something to do with cultural ownership and identity...do you have any thoughts on that?

I was afraid I'd come off as harsh to students who might read this post! Had I only re-read your OP, and allowed myself some thinking time, I might have come up with a better, more helpful answer. As it was, I ran through the post quickly and therefore :Aembarassed: myself.

Actually, I think you can pretty much take what has been posted so far and pretend that I wrote some of the more reasoned responses, since I do agree with them.

And to emphasize one point in particular, I always tell new students (or remind returning ones) that the basis for BD is a social dance but that they are learning a theatrical form of it. I truly think this especially helps to cement my authority to teach theatrical style, which few ME folks learn to do at home.

There, I feel a little less :Aembarassed: already.

Deborah

Originally Posted by casbahdance

And to emphasize one point in particular, I always tell new students (or remind returning ones) that the basis for BD is a social dance but that they are learning a theatrical form of it. I truly think this especially helps to cement my authority to teach theatrical style, which few ME folks learn to do at home.

Deborah

theoneinblue, I must have missed your latest post before I posted my last one as I see that you've got it figured out already!

I think you have proved that you have at least a couple of the several necesssary characteristics of a good teacher: desire to learn plus care and respect for your students.

Good luck!

Deborah

Originally Posted by theoneinblue

......, but I wonder if it's the teacher-student relationship, the very statement of authority that some Middle Eastern students perceive as a claim of cultural ownership.

I understand your concerns, but I would suggest you have confidence in yourself to teach what you know about this dance to them. Just because a person comes from a certain cultural background certainly doesn't mean they know everything about it. Many people take classes (art, history, cooking, dance, etc.) in their own culture to learn more about it. And please remember that they are going to you to learn something about their culture that they desire to learn. If they have the attitude that they know more about it than you then they either wouldn't be there in the first place or will not stay long. You are not trying to say to them that you know more about their culture than them, but that you DO have knowledge in a small aspect of it that they don't have. If they have cultural knowledge to share than great, but be careful of allowing anyone to take charge of your class in any way.

Originally Posted by casbahdance

theoneinblue, I must have missed your latest post before I posted my last one as I see that you've got it figured out already!

I think you have proved that you have at least a couple of the several necesssary characteristics of a good teacher: desire to learn plus care and respect for your students.

Good luck!

Deborah

No worries - don't be :Aembarassed:! And thank you for your input and encouragement!

Originally Posted by bellydancewear

I understand your concerns, but I would suggest you have confidence in yourself to teach what you know about this dance to them...You are not trying to say to them that you know more about their culture than them, but that you DO have knowledge in a small aspect of it that they don't have. If they have cultural knowledge to share than great, but be careful of allowing anyone to take charge of your class in any way.

That's a good point; having read yours and others' suggestions, I feel a more comfortable maintaining a kind of teacher-authority that's based on a theatrical, performance-based dance rather than all-things-ME-dance (that know-everything role was a role I definitely did not want, and wondered if my ME students thought I was assuming). Thanks for your help!

I'm not a teacher but I want to chime in. There is a ME student in the class I take and my teacher, who is also Arabic, teaches her the same as everyone else. She is a fast learner and progressed faster than slow learners would but the same would happen if a white girl learned fast. We have and had students from all sort of places; Greek, Indian, Latin-American, Asian...

If you are a good teacher and a good dancer you can be confident that you have something worthwhile to share. Every student that comes to your class does so because there is something she wants to learn from you. Even if, what you may have feared, she knows more about a, b and c than you, she may have noticed you are good at d, e, and f and is eager to learn that from you.

I've performed for ME women at parties where they also danced socially and noticed there is great variety in how and how well women dance. Just like in a western disco, most people can dance to the rythm, some are very good and a couple have two left feet. Not every Arabic woman is Fifi Abdo, but at the same time someone who grew up listening to the music is going to have learned some skills. Social dancing can teach a feel for the music, graceful transitions (even if you are transitioning between the same 4 moves) and the ability to express ones feelings. Other things can be learned better in a class setting or can only be learned from someone with performance experience.

Originally Posted by theoneinblue

I hope so. I do try to share what I know; in the case of this particular student, though, I think it was a test of cultural "authenticity" - that's what she was looking for. Being American, in her book I'm technically an outsider, and so I think she wasn't sure I was worth her time, no matter what I did. That makes me wonder to what extent the problem isn't mine, if I'm already doing everything I can. Thank you for your ideas! That's a different way to spin it, and may very well prove helpful.

Actually, you are not the outsider when it comes to the technique of the dance, the artistic approach to the dance, the dance in relation to music for stage aspects and professional level of dance VS social dancing. It is not a general norm for ME women to take classes in Bellydance.

This is a subject that I have thought about and consulted with many in regard to the Indian dances I teach and Indians. I know we are not talking about Indian dances - but there is a parallel in the issue at hand still;

Being Indian myself I should already be an insider and therefore avoid the cultural ownership issues mentioned on the thread here. Well, what happens is that everyone knows how to do things better than each other. Many Indian dances as well as Middle Eastern Dances are taught by person to person in social settings - not from teacher to student in class settings. This causes it to be normal to challenge the authority of others on the dance. As a teacher - you have to create a difference between social dancing and professional level of dance.

The issue you bring up about ownership is not only in regard to being from the culture VS not being from the culture. The issue is also in regard to what purpose the dance is approached for.

I make the distinction between social dancing/"living out your inner bellydancer dream" in a costume on stage VS dancing with a professional level and quality effort in a costume on stage. I make this distinction to all my dancers no matter whether they are ME in MED classes or they are Indian in Indian dance classes or they are of any other ethnicity in either classes. It is important to create a distinction for your students so they dont transfer bad habits from their social dancing into their professional dancing as well.

The point about using students that are "of the culture" as references in class is a two edged sword. Both you and the class can benefit from it if done in small doses. If done extensively, it almost may come across as you are seeking approval from the person that is "of the culture". There is a balance to keep in mind here. Often times we dance instructors will spend time and money on studies in regard to culture outside of class to empower ourselves and increase our knowledge base (Bhuz being a great example!). Some learn the language as well. Some travel to have their own experiences to refer to.

Whereas it is important to recognize the "automatic" knowledge that people "of the culture" have by the virtue of being born into it, it is also important to recognize that many people have a hard time identifying how, why, when and caused by what in relation to "automatic" cultural knowledge. Also, the "rules" that many cultural practices are based on are often not as clearly identified and taught. They just are there and without further studies and analysis - it is hard to narrow them down and identify them. That is where the strength in a teacher can lay in addition to the dance technical material. As dance teachers or "outsiders" learning about the dance and culture - we have that privilaged position to "not be blinded by what we just do automatically in our culture" which makes it easier to identify these rules and general strokes in the culture. (can also be achieved through anthropological studies/research of own or other cultures - but that's not what we're really talking about here) It is a very interesting subject.

Don't look at yourself as an outsider looking in (not specifically directed at OP). You are the resource they come for (dance technique and knowledge about the dance) - and by the virtue of that you are an insider.

Most people are willing to be "impressed" by others' cultural knowledge and understanding of their culture, arts and countries. "All" we have to do is ensure that we are capable of that ;)

i think when ME or NA descent people take bd classes its mostly for fun
but i think you should just teach the way you always teach
but it will win you some points when you impart bits of cultural knowledge during your lessons

Originally Posted by david

Most people are willing to be "impressed" by others' cultural knowledge and understanding of their culture, arts and countries. "All" we have to do is ensure that we are capable of that ;)

ITA