Thread: Warm ups w/o stretching? What does your warmup consist of?

Does anyone else do warm ups without stretches? I personally just like to start jumping around, doing jumping jacks, jumping while turning, then plies and releves, shouler rolls, ect. The only troupe I've seen do this in a workshop is Unmata, otherwise it seems everyone wants to stretch! (which I like to save for cool down, when I acutally can stretch) Tell me about your warmups in classes!

I don't actually jump but I do do a side to side step touch that my teacher, Monica, does in class, then shimmies, starting slow and getting faster and harder.

I generally get people moving for a song (usually 6-8 minutes or so) and then do large-muscle stretches before any serious dancing. For the warm-up we just do basic belly dance movements, which may include plies and reaches to the side, shoulder rolls, arm patterns, figure 8s of all kinds, small and really big hip circles, and various types of belly contractions depending on the class level. I also include a cool-down stretch at the end.

I actually "don't believe in" stretching as a warm-up. I've known people to injure themselves by stretching before exercise. The best warm-up for me is isolation drills and just dancing, but without the more strenuous moves added included yet (ie, not on releve, not floorwork, etc). The time to stretch I believe is at the end of your dance practice.
Rosette

I'm in the no stretching before warmup brigade (and no stretching after either - there is not enough time to dance let alone do a full stretch. That's homework). Warmup includes lots of big muscle movement - starting with various walks (nothing with fine control) and big arm movements (to get the heart pumping). From there onto mobilization ie moving the joints through their range of motion. Depending on the class some drills, simple combos, gentle dancing.

I also don't focus on stretching in the warm up. Large movements that warm up the muscles without impact. We don't jump around. Squats, lunges, gentle reaches, isolations, arm path exercises etc.
Stretches are done at the end.

Once upon a time it was believed that stretching before you started moving was the way to go NOw the feeling is that stretching before warming up is a good way to hurt yourself because you are pushing your muscles too fast.

On the other hand, there is statistical proof that if you don't stretch at the END of your work out, you lose about 30% of the benefit of the work out. Something to consider.

Personally, taking for about 100 different teachers at the moment, most of whom start with gentle, basic belly dance movement before going into any kind of stretching, I find it to be helpful. Althoug, Jillina in her workshops will put on a piece of music and just have you bop in a circle - mildly guided - while you warm the muscles up. Then it's stretch and isolate, IIRC. That works, too.

{{{HUGS}}}

Thanks ladies. I'm gathering ideas for my new classes and I've always heard (and felt) that stretching before your body is warm can be dangerous. I loved Jilliana's workshop where we "bopped" around in a circle but not sure it will work with beginners. Arm path excersizes is something I was planning on doing during the "arm section" of my class, but I think it would be great to add to the warm up (rather than arm crosses, which is what I was originally doing). I also love the idea of squats and lunges. Keep em coming!

I do stretches at the end of class. My doctor in Canada actually told me that it is not necessary and that there is actually very little actual proof that stretching after working out does much at all. he said it just made people feel better. Not sure if that is actually true but I feel better and if everyone does, that's good enough for me. ;)

Yep, I stretch at the end... not as a warm up. Stretches are not a warm up.

For the warm-up section of class, I follow pretty much the same pattern each time with a section that is tailored to what we will be working on in class. My warm-up section serves as a dance movement/isolation practice each week so no basic movements go without weekly practice.

1. Arm movements: 4 of each - arms crossing in front to overhead, arms crossing overhead to down, arms up/down out to sides, arms from over head opening on a large front/back diagonal each side, cross-open, arm path overhead>shoulder>out front>out side>down [some in place, some walking back and forth]

2. Shoulder rolls, shoulder lift/drops, shoulder fwd/back, move into snake arms and ripples, shoulder shimmies, wrist circles floreo and Egyptian [some in place, some walking back and forth]

3. Chest movements (fwd/back/up/down/horizontal circles/vertical circles), arms movements and travel steps are added in as drilled

4. Hip movements (single/double sided/up/down/fwd/back/twist/shimmy types/circles) In place, with arms, and traveling

5. Abdominal movements (in/out/pelvic lift/release - maybe belly undulations)

6. Shimmy drill

7. Extra focus on anything we will specifically need to have extra warm for class - integrated into the above sections

Research on stretching is very mixed, probably because the word itself is rather vague.

Babies and pets often stretch first thing when they wake up, cold muscles and all, and rarely hurt themselves... BUT they don't push themselves into any ridiculous extension either. So I think you have to define what kind of stretching you're doing before you can research it.

The recommendations of the exercise authorities (ACE, ACSM, AFAA) as of two years ago when I was in school were that the body should be warmed up by 5-10 minutes of light low-impact activity such as walking -- to the point of a light sweat. The authorities were terribly mixed and confusing in their stretching recommendations. Basically the gist as I understood it was that stretches should be held for 30-60 seconds if your goal is to increase flexibility and should be done on a warmed-up body. But whether to do them before or after the workout was left up to individual instructors.

Jumping as a warmup worries me a lot, actually, and not just because of the risk to cold joints and muscles. One HUGE reason for the warmup is that the beginning of aerobic activity is when people are at the highest risk for heart attack. The body's need for oxygen increases faster than the cardiovascular system's ability to supply it increases. This leads to an oxygen deficit period at the beginning of a workout, and that's the danger phase. The MOST important purpose of warming up slowly is primarily to prevent or minimize oxygen deficit in order to prevent heart attack. (this is why people die every year from snow shoveling, they don't warm up or build activity slowly). A sedentary woman in her mid-40's with high blood pressure shouldn't start off with jumping jacks.

Nourhan does a great job incorporating all this. She has students walk in place with arm pathways for a couple of minutes at the beginning of class, then does a few strengthening/stretching activities. The walking/arms is a great drill in itself -- you don't march, you gracefully toe-heel each foot in place.

It wouldn't occur to me for one second to start a class with stretches.

Interesting conversation. Like the walking in a graceful circle doing armpaths concept.

I've always been a stretch before, warmup, class content, stretch after kind of person, but this thread is making me rethink that. I may just kill the stretch before, add more body parts to the warmup section (which is typically shimmy drills (hips, shoulders, level changes, traveling, etc.)), and add more stretching to the end of class.

It makes so much sense to me because when I work out at home (like last night), I tend to stretch the most at the end. I never stretch before I run, but I do begin with a brisk walk.

Though there is something to be said about using the first few minutes of class to get people focused and to let go of tension. I do that with the typical bend your knees, arms up as you inhale, arms down as you exhale kind of thing. I may keep that there but use it as a precursor to the warmup, not the stretching. Just gotta come up with some good warmup movements now.

At a gig site or back/side stage where there is not a lot of room to stretch, mostly my version of ballistic stretching (low-impact "bouncing" while allowing the arms to "jello" at my sides). Usually the first few minutes of the routine is what actually "warms" me up and then I can engage in more flexy-stuff.

I start with gentle swaying, little demi plies, circling and sliding body parts. In a way do put some stretching in the warm up, but more of a dynamic nature like reaching into a stretched out position, but not sustaining it, instead moving in and out of it. Then from there I work into isolations, then other dance steps.

Some of my older students have requested stretching at the beginning of class. They say their bodies feel tight and that they have a looser, more comfortable range of motion after stretching. So I'm thinking of adding a few stretches to my warmup, but gentle ones. Big hip circles with a pause at each side and the back, maybe a sideways bending movement and some chest/shoulder openers after the warmup.

I hate spending too much classtime on warmup-cooldown, 10 minutes of each is the most I'll do. I mostly use simple drills as a warmup usually before moving on to more complex or aerobic movements.

When Hadia of Canada was in Chicago, she had us start walking around in the studio, then opening and closing our arms which acts like a hinge for our upper bodies. She is also a massage therapist which she explained in Canada requires some extensive medical training. I have always been a firm believer in stretching before class but after I took her workshop I am more inclined to do it her way. She too stated that stretching cold muscles is not good for them. I still stretch somewhat but I prefer to do them at the end of a dance session.

For beginning students, the seated warm up includes several upper-body isolations along with some "getting those body parts moving" types of things.

1. Posture. We sit with our backs away from the backs of the chairs, bellies contracted to get the hips underneath, ribcage lifted away from the hips, shoulders comfortably back and down, chin level.

2. Several rhythmic deep breaths, in thru the nose and out thru the mouth.

3. Head and neck movements. These are controlled and are used slowly and carefully to work some of those "I've been sitting at a desk all day" stiff necks. I specifically state that we are not stretching, rather, we are simply moving our necks to the point where a stretch would begin and include: a) chin dips and lifts, b) ear-to-shoulder and c) careful head rolls.

4. Shoulders. All movements are done first in half-time, then in full-time, one shoulder at a time, and include: a) up and down, b) forward and back, c) shoulder roll.

5. Mid-back release. I found this in one of my non-BD dance magazines. I love it.

6. Rib cage. Slides, horizontal half-circles and full circles, emphasizing that the weight remains evenly distributed on the hip points. Later in the session, add vertical circles.

7. Abdominals. We do belly rolls and other stuff so that we become aware of and learn to control the abs; movements included: a) lower belly in and out rhythmically, b) also "timed" ins and outs (4 counts to get all the way in, another 4 counts to get all the way out -- no plopping!), c) belly rolls.

8. Feet and ankles. Circle the ankles a few times, then gentle pull-backs and extensions. Again, I emphasize we are not stretching, we are getting some movement going.

We then exit the chairs (or get off the floor) and start with either traveling steps, gentle shimmies, etc, to get the larger muscle groups warm.

Most of the movement we do in the seated warm up is dance. Isolations such as rib slides and circles, etc, are much easier to learn seated [where one's body weight helps to keep the hips stationary (-ery?)], so that's how we start out. After 2-3 weeks, we continue doing these movements in a seated position, but then do them standing.

I also will sometimes extend the seated warm up to include learning dance-y shoulder shakes, shoulder rolls and snake arms. As before, being seated to start out often makes it easier for folks to get the feel of the movement due to the body weight helping to keep the hips still; then we work standing and, eventually, walking.

That took longer to type than it does to do -- about 10 minutes.

Deborah

Originally Posted by mahsati

For the warm-up section of class, I follow pretty much the same pattern each time with a section that is tailored to what we will be working on in class. My warm-up section serves as a dance movement/isolation practice each week so no basic movements go without weekly practice.

1. Arm movements: 4 of each - arms crossing in front to overhead, arms crossing overhead to down, arms up/down out to sides, arms from over head opening on a large front/back diagonal each side, cross-open, arm path overhead>shoulder>out front>out side>down [some in place, some walking back and forth]

2. Shoulder rolls, shoulder lift/drops, shoulder fwd/back, move into snake arms and ripples, shoulder shimmies, wrist circles floreo and Egyptian [some in place, some walking back and forth]

3. Chest movements (fwd/back/up/down/horizontal circles/vertical circles), arms movements and travel steps are added in as drilled

4. Hip movements (single/double sided/up/down/fwd/back/twist/shimmy types/circles) In place, with arms, and traveling

5. Abdominal movements (in/out/pelvic lift/release - maybe belly undulations)

6. Shimmy drill

7. Extra focus on anything we will specifically need to have extra warm for class - integrated into the above sections

..g.: I remember this!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Research on stretching is very mixed, probably because the word itself is rather vague.

Babies and pets often stretch first thing when they wake up, cold muscles and all, and rarely hurt themselves... BUT they don't push themselves into any ridiculous extension either. So I think you have to define what kind of stretching you're doing before you can research it.

Actually I suspect what babies and pets are doing is not a stretch as defined medically - ie "a sliding elongation of the overlapping protein fibres in the myofilaments resulting in a lengthening of the myofilaments past their current resting length". What they are doing is more "mobilization" - they are moving about but not trying to lengthen the resting length of their muscle fibres. That sort of moving and wiggling is perfectly okay - but still not a warm-up.

Originally Posted by kashmir

"a sliding elongation of the overlapping protein fibres in the myofilaments resulting in a lengthening of the myofilaments past their current resting length". What they are doing is more "mobilization"

But aren't they being lengthened past resting length? My dogs arch their back, strech out their forepaws and backpaws in the morning, and I find that I stretch out multiple times in bed, too, till I finally decide to get up.

My current understanding is that there are two kinds of stretches:
1. Having your own body stretch itself, like what pets and babies do, and like what we may do in the morning or when we've been sitting too long.
2. Having something else stretch a body part, like when you use your weight or other muscles to strech something; eg holding a limb and putting pressure on it to stretch it.

I understood that the first one is perfectly fine on cold muscles, but the second is the one to be very careful of. Hope I'm on the right track!

My preference is to do big, gentle movements that loosen up my muscles a little. I'd say there is a bit of stretching involved, but not the type of stretching that really pushes it. So, I do big, sloppy hip circles and stop at the tight spots and sort of waggle my butt. I'll do gentle mayas, arm undulations shoulder rolls, etc. I'll do slow shimmies and then start to speed up a little bit. I'll gently lift and drop my hips. I'll do slow chest circles. I'll do exaggerated walks with arabesques. Basically, I do some of the moves I'll be doing while dancing, but more slowly and gently. That works best for me. I tend to be a little stiff (arthritis?) and inflexible, so I need to loosen up before I dance.

That's how I like to warm up when left to my own devices.

I've had instructors that do stretching, but I don't like to intensively stretch before I'm warm, for reasons stated here.

I've had instructors that do strengthening (crunches, glute squeezes, squats, etc.), but that tends to make me feel tense and tight, which is not how I like to start off dancing.

I've had an instructors who had us jump when she wanted us to warm up quickly (especially when it was really cold outside and the studio was chilly), but I won't do this. I'll just sort of bounce along, without letting my feet actually leave the floor, because 1) jumping when I'm not warmed up doesn't feel good, and 2) it's not a wood-sprung floor, and we're not wearing shoes with arch support to dance, so that puts us at risk for shin splints. I've had them in the past and so I'm more prone to them, and I don't care to get them again.

I've had only one instructor who warmed us up the way I prefer to warm up. Therefore, I'd prefer that the instructor not lead the warm up at all, but give us x minutes to warm up ourselves. I'm not a beginner, and I know how to warm up. I wouldn't mind suggestions, such as "We're going to be really working xxxx today, so make sure you warm up your xxxx. Here's how I do it."

Here is an article that suggests dynamic stretches as a way to prepare the body for athletic activity:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sp...112pewarm.html

i used to play basketball. my last coach was a professor for sports science. the team usually arrives early to start playing around and then our warm up was to jog for about 10 minutes and then we stretched. at the end we also stretched.

there shouldn't be any risk of hurting yourself by stretching because you should never force it anyway. when sometimes i played without proper stretching i felt my muscles just cannot perform their best.

my dance teacher does something similar. we dance at beginning to warm up and then we stretch. and we do some stretching for the back now and then throughout the class to release tension.

Originally Posted by steffib

Here is an article that suggests dynamic stretches as a way to prepare the body for athletic activity:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sp...112pewarm.html

I'm not a professional but I do read articles from Peak Performance/Sports Injury Bulletin etc

You are gradually warming up the muscles and increasing blood flow preparing them for work. Simple movements and begin to increase range of motion. Arm & leg swings are fine.

Stretching is causing micro tears, then if you start giggling about you run the risk of causing a bigger tear.

Safer to stretch out at the end.

I often do mini stretches during class.

Originally Posted by kashmir

Actually I suspect what babies and pets are doing is not a stretch as defined medically - ie "a sliding elongation of the overlapping protein fibres in the myofilaments resulting in a lengthening of the myofilaments past their current resting length". What they are doing is more "mobilization" - they are moving about but not trying to lengthen the resting length of their muscle fibres. That sort of moving and wiggling is perfectly okay - but still not a warm-up.

That's what I'm after in my warm-ups: "mobilization." I just want the bodies (including mine, let me tell you) to start moving, slowly increasing the range of motion as we warm the body from use.

Deborah

Originally Posted by shems

I start with gentle swaying, little demi plies, circling and sliding body parts. In a way do put some stretching in the warm up, but more of a dynamic nature like reaching into a stretched out position, but not sustaining it, instead moving in and out of it. Then from there I work into isolations, then other dance steps.

Ditto, I do a lot of shoulder rolls, arms circles, hip circles, demi-plies and I really like swaying to warm up. I start by just shifting my weight, then I let the torso follow and then the head and arms. Its very gentle but great for the whole body. Then after I feel warmed up I do a few hamstring stretches, and gentle back stretches, usually in the form of upward/downward dog and cobra pose from yoga. My lower back is somewhat sensitive and I do feel it needs a good stretch to prepare it for dance practice but thats just me.