Thread: Ladies, what do I do?

Ick. This is a bit of a tough one. Its liable to be half sob story, half rant, half needing my a## kicked and half seeking advice [wait...too many halves!]

Firstly, let me say I am youngish now, and started teaching when I was definitly a young thing.

I opened on very little, and with few students. One of them, the only flaring 'talent' of the original group, over the years has come to be a very dear, valued friend as well as student and fellow performer. She works in a commercial arts too, so in those first inexperienced years, her contributions to making/doing that were utterly invaluable, and still are.

She has been stalwart, cattle prod, friend, student, guidance system, sounding board and more.
I am starting to wonder if cultivating that friendship outside teacher-student and dancer-troupe owner isn't going to bite me in the proverbial. But I honestly don't know what I would have done without her.

However sometimes, esp. this year, I am feeling a little bit of boundary overstep, and now I don't know what to do about it. She is invaluble to my troupe, and nothing in it so far is worth losing the dancer or friend over.

But I am beginning to feel a ..harried. As if it is presumed that anything she pushes for she will get. And sometimes, she will write me mail, or do something for the studio without telling me, in a way that comes over to me as not entirely respectful.

However, she is of a personality type totally alien to quiet little staid me, the traditional 'artistic', that feels hard, where things I might see as annoying become a major thing for a moment or two, but then the person moves on where I would linger and dwell on things- totally different person to myself, see, with different perspectives and instincts?

I have had a rough year from external sources, too, and I know it is this contributing . I feel a little more sensitive then I should over things. But, it just feels to me that where as with everyone else I am teacher, and my word goes, this specific student/friend is thinking more of a 'collabarative equals' thing- and at days end, it isn't. This is still my studio, my little piece of intellectual work allowing me to be a beneign dictator- because mostly it is my blood sweat and tears building and maintaing it. I don't think any of it is helped by my being a] very easygoing and b] eager to avoid conflict where possible, so I tend to roll with things and haven't called her on the smaller things that I prob. should have.

Hindsight is wonderful. I can sit here today and say that it was foolish not keeping that boundary , maintainig my teacherly poise, esp. as I know there is already the problem that people tend to feel that innate 'I am more experienced and thus know better' thing anyway. But at the time... . So now I am a little stuck as how to extract myself amiccably from the situation I have allowed to develop. Yes, it is all my fault.

Background, FYI:

Things just really caught up with me today. I have been trying to organise a fundraising set of kids holiday workshops. My advanced class suggested it, and the idea was that they would be involved in the teaching bit and all too. But then they went all quite and left details to me. Which was fine. i like to control stuff mostly, anyway. I haven't progressed with it as well as I should- overextended majorly, since am being honest- but I have been slowly slowly getting it all organised.

Today, in her zany artistic-brained way, she was suddenly all fired up about it again, and a got a rapid fire series of emails demanding info on this, this and that about it. I had just got to work, had a big meeting on my mind more, plus a couple of other studio things to get out the way fast first, so I wasn't on the whole enthusiasim bandwagon, and my replies were definitly rather vague. She [I know now] was wanting the info to put together a pamphlet- but didn't say that outright [PS nor did I ask for it, though I appreciate the donation of a pro's services free]. So I suddenly received a mail that hurt. It sounded like nothing so much as 'Susie being scolded for being bad by mummy' . IMO, it was out of line, disrespectful and harsh for any adult to use towards another adult, let alone to the head of your troupe/your instructor.

That said, it must be tempered by the fact that her personality is totally different to mind, and she will write far more strongly then I ever would, even normally. So it probably didn't seem as bad to her. But it still smacks of a lack of any background respect, and that hurts like the blazes.

I responded with a calm and unreactionary answer to a few of her questions, with a small line at the end saying that BTW I appreciate she didn't mean it as hurtful but it came across like that to me. No real idea if it was the right thing to do but intuitively it felt the way to go- Not the big dramas I would tend to, but also not just ignoring it again.

Ugh, ramble over. Far too long, too! But I have spent the last half hour literally feeling very wounded, and thought it might be worth just sending a net or two out on here to see what anyone else might suggest.

I think that the only way out of this is to start to distance yourself a bit. Slowly pull away. People get busy and at some point, peoples feelings are not hurt if you stop e-mailing back the same day you get it. It might also not hurt to gently let her know that you are in fact in charge and any action that she takes on behalf of the studio needs to be cleared through you first. Remeber that anything she puts out there with your name attached reflects on you and your studio, not necessarily on her so you need to control your image as a dancer and business woman.

I am sorry that you are going through this.

Just wanted to say I completely understand how you are feeling and hope this gets better soon!

Originally Posted by Amira_Siddiqah

Yes, it is all my fault.

No, not at all. Many people given what you gave her would know their place and respect yours. She sounds to me a bit impulsive. For someone like that, I think there's always a bit of a tug of war, respect-wise. I agree with what Linny said. I would back out slowly till you reach a comfortable distance. IMHO, you really have to stomp your foot down (and keep stomping if they keep pushing) where you want the line drawn. It's definitely hard; I wish playing nice came naturally to more people!

You could also reply to her and tell her sincerely that she offended you? I know I sometimes feel the way you do with some people but I still don't tell them so I end up phasing them out along with the stress they brought... don't be like me! Sounds like you want to keep a good relationship with her. :)

Anyway, good luck. :)

I'm with the others on this, if you want to be a "boss", you must act like one. And even your friends have to respect the role you play, even if you don't always play the role every single time. It takes a good bit of experience to be an effective leader, and you don't nearly as much from your successes as when you screw up and have to figure out how to solve the problem.

Distancing and firming up will succeed, but it's true you might lose your friend. But if you don't...the ugliness will grow and grow ...and you'll lose both the friend, and probably some other troupe members and students b/c of the collateral damage. ANd you'll really hate yourself about it too.

Alternatively, you COULD try another route: which could be offering her a "position" (unpaid) as assistant director, where she'd either be a junior you, or instead -- you could give her responsibilities that would help you [HELP] do things that otherwise you'd not have time or talent to do.

This could also be used as a tactful way to get her back under you again, which is where she belongs. You could say you've been thinking that you want to ... expand the troupe, ...realign the troupe...fix ABC with your classes...and would she like to get a more official role....

The above will only work if a: you really need the help, and b: you can give up some control, and c: you really would feel good about the partnership.

Best of luck!

those in the know, or want to know...or that YOU want to find you, the worthy...will figure it out and go the way they are to go. i had a night renter for 5 years.she retired, but i was left wioth a very bad rep because it was my studio.
it takes time, but things are very good now.it took time for word to get out that i had complete control night and day!
hang in there.....and we are here for you!
you were there for me..:)

Yes this is a delicate situation. I would think about the pros and cons of giving her an official role in the goings on of the studio before you think about offering that to her. She may take more initiative and feel she has more power and abuse it, or possibly it will give her a defined role that will utilize her talents within guidlines directed by you. I do agree that you need to be "The Boss." I had a student that started acting like she was me, the teacher and troupe director, it was really affecting the class and rehearsals. So I had to approach her and have a talk to set the guidelines and remind her that as much as I appreciate her trying to help and appreciate her knowledge that she is stepping on my toes and I need her to step back and let ME be the leader without her outbursts of imput, and that it is not her job to make troupe decisions and critique the other dancers. She is my good friend, and still is. She did apologize and did change. I am glad that I was honest with her about it and got my feeling out in the open and dealt with the issue directly. So good-luck with your situation.

Originally Posted by bellydancewear

Yes this is a delicate situation. I would think about the pros and cons of giving her an official role in the goings on of the studio before you think about offering that to her. She may take more initiative and feel she has more power and abuse it, or possibly it will give her a defined role that will utilize her talents within guidlines directed by you. I do agree that you need to be "The Boss." I had a student that started acting like she was me, the teacher and troupe director, it was really affecting the class and rehearsals. So I had to approach her and have a talk to set the guidelines and remind her that as much as I appreciate her trying to help and appreciate her knowledge that she is stepping on my toes and I need her to step back and let ME be the leader without her outbursts of imput, and that it is not her job to make troupe decisions and critique the other dancers. She is my good friend, and still is. She did apologize and did change. I am glad that I was honest with her about it and got my feeling out in the open and dealt with the issue directly. So good-luck with your situation.

Wow. I wish all relationships worked out as well, you must have the golden touch.

I'm with Bellydancewear -- just talk to her and let her know what you're feeling and what you expect out of the relationship between the two of you.

In the past year, I've had a similar situation, and I finally just had to sit down with the person and talk it out. It made us better friends, and we both were able to understand each other's position -- even if we didn't agree with it.

I've lost a couple of friends over the years by being honest, but I've never GAINED any real friends by lying or hiding my feelings.

What a tough situation! For one thing, it sounds like you have very different work styles - perhaps you like to take a measured approach and think through things first before you're ready to go ahead. Your friend, on the other hand, sounds like she's quick to get fired up and wants to jump in straight away. Here hyper-quick demand for action is a stress to you, while she feels like you're a party pooper putting the dampener on her brilliant plans. This analysis might not be exactly right, but perhaps you can have a chat about how different your approaches are, and let her know how the way she comes at things causes real stress for you. Then you can tell her that she needs to step back and let you do things in your own time (or whatever it is that you need). In other words, don't say that she's all wrong and you're all right, but rather your approaches clash and she needs to accommodate you because you're the boss.

Some other ideas to toy with:
- Start making her input more official, by paying her for her input (could be in kind). This might help you put defined boundaries around it. If you keep accepting her offers of free brochure design, etc, it's no wonder that she feels more like it's a partnership. Otherwise, what is she getting for her valuable services? If you cut her out, she may feel like she's being used.
- Perhaps you can say you're putting in place 'processes and protocols' to make everything run more smoothly. From now on, you'll be doing xyz in this way.... Or you could develop a marketing plan, or whatever, which covers the areas that you're wanting to wrestle back.

I can see both sides of this situation. I have a student that behaves very similarly to yours, though it's more about dictating what she wants the class to learn. It drives me nuts, and stresses me, but she genuinely means well. I've had to come to terms with actively disappointing her in order to maintain my own sanity (and control).

On the other hand, I used to manage someone else's business. I tried so hard to keep it from going under, only to hear on the grapevine that she's complained to others I was trying to 'take it over.' I was quite gutted.

I think your awkward situation calls for a frank discussion so you can understand each other and re-draw the line.

Thanks ladies, for the support and encouragment. I was really down when I posted, and you certainly helped. Don't get me wrong, she isn't the impulsive for own gain type, it is the is the impulsivity for good- genuinely wants to help, ease loads etc, join in, smooth but it is sometimes just that bit much to always have that person on your shoulder, pushing, suggesting, 'knowing better' even when they don't realise they are doing it!

LinnyG. The distance thing is currently my plan. I am hoping to do it diplomatically, but do think it will ultimately help cool everything

I hear the suggestions about an 'official' position. I considered it earlier this year, but it really won't work. My studio is, litterally, dinky [like, 25-30 people?] so it gets to be a bit of a too many cooks thing. I also believe it would probably end up contributing to the impulsivness, rather then curbing. But thanks.

I have tried having a hash out- very mildly, I didn't really go into the full thing but kept it to that one inccident. I felt it was a wiser start- if I suddenly go KABOOM Bang into a four mile list of what I wish wouldn't happen, I felt it would be too confrontational and cause automatic antagonisim. If ness, I can bring stuff up again as it happens, and hopefully a slow change will occur *finger cross*. It looks like this one is settled amicabbly, and hopefully she will maybe give it consideration in future, too.

For one thing, it sounds like you have very different work styles - perhaps you like to take a measured approach and think through things first before you're ready to go ahead. Your friend, on the other hand, sounds like she's quick to get fired up and wants to jump in straight away. Here hyper-quick demand for action is a stress to you, while she feels like you're a party pooper putting the dampener on her brilliant plans.

Your analysis.. was perfect. Totally summed it up.

The free stuff thing is an awkwardness. I hate it. And its less of the 'will you do this', or even of me accepting, then that one day I may say 'Hmm, we should think about matching troupe coverups' and the next week, bam.. the material is bought, everything is ready and she brought the measuring tape. I am at a loss on that sort of thing. I mean, how sour do you look if you go "gee, thanks, but take them back because I don't want it."

This was very bad when she started with me. These days, I have at least argued it up to a point where she has to provide prices. But I know she is only charging materials and not time and design, and it still makes me uncomfortable. I have said so too. Guess it is just the differeent natures again- one feels uncomfortable with it, the other would be if they didn't.

thanks again.

And lol- yeah. I have started doing exactly that. New rules, firm this and thats... hoping it will take effect eventually. That's actually what sparked my 'might think exception' comment. I set out a bunch of new rules on an issue, much to her approval after what happened with someone else. She ended up doing something bordering on the same, so I sent a mild rebuke about it- and she was a little shocked and on dignity. But it will help and work for future, I know it.

Originally Posted by Amira_Siddiqah

The free stuff thing is an awkwardness. I hate it. And its less of the 'will you do this', or even of me accepting, then that one day I may say 'Hmm, we should think about matching troupe coverups' and the next week, bam.. the material is bought, everything is ready and she brought the measuring tape. I am at a loss on that sort of thing. I mean, how sour do you look if you go "gee, thanks, but take them back because I don't want it."

Maybe you just have to say that. Perhaps her having to deal with the impulsiveness of her actions a few times will help the message sink in. If you keep accepting what she does (albeit unwillingly) she may never change.

Perhaps you can try hard to spell things out for her "We need to think about matching costumes...this week I will come up with some ideas, and over the next few weeks we will reach agreement on them. After that, I will provide swatches of material sample and then you can go and purchase material. You need to wait for me to provide the swatches." Maybe she can't see your thought process and so just assumes it's not happening?

My similarly problematic student drives me nuts because she 'needs' to have everything planned months in advance...whilst I need time to nut things through step-by-step and can't be rushed. So she's insisting I tell her exactly what costume she'll be wearing a month before I've even finished the choreography - ugh! ..c:: Hey, perhaps my student is worried that I am not thinking about everything necessary, cos I don't share the process whilst it' still half-baked. Ooh, revalation!

set your boundrys let them be known set up conciquences and stick with it. it is hard when you become friends but all realtionships have to have boundrys and mutural respect .

Jewel, funny you should say that. I think it is probably it. She is a lady who will share as things progress, I am someone who slaps a fait accompli down and doesn't mention it while it ruminates. Oddly, another of my troupe dancers said something very similar today, out of the blue as this particular issue hasn't been discussed with her, of course, but with the same subject.

Originally Posted by BELLA_BELLA

I'm with the others on this, if you want to be a "boss", you must act like one. And even your friends have to respect the role you play, even if you don't always play the role every single time. It takes a good bit of experience to be an effective leader, and you don't nearly as much from your successes as when you screw up and have to figure out how to solve the problem.

Bella Bella hit the nail on the head with this one. To help your friend understand what her role is, you have to define it for her, and that is done through assuming your role as the director of your studio and your troupe (classes, etc.). I am having to learn a similar lesson, as I began a job as the director of a teen center about 7 months ago. I cannot stress how much easier the entire job has become after setting down your rules and expectations. The problems, including working with teachers that were overstepping their roles, cleared up almost immediately.