Thread: Should I dumb it down?

The classes I teach are pretty thorough; rhythms, history, culture, movement vocabulary, veil, bellydance as mythology, famous dancers, etc. I teach the dance as placed in the cultural context, as befits a bellydancer who is also a historian and anthropologist.

However, I was told that a lot of people around here aren't looking for an actual DANCE class; they're just looking for fun stuff to do, maybe a little 'woman's group' type of thing, etc. However, I teach it as a dance, as serious as jazz or ballet. I've been told that when people sign up for a bellydance class, that isn't what they are looking for. I was told once, "The way you teach, you aren't going to have tons of students - but you will produce good dancers."

So my question is - am I approaching this all wrong? Should I dumb it down?

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

The classes I teach are pretty thorough; rhythms, history, culture, movement vocabulary, veil, bellydance as mythology, famous dancers, etc. I teach the dance as placed in the cultural context, as befits a bellydancer who is also a historian and anthropologist.

However, I was told that a lot of people around here aren't looking for an actual DANCE class; they're just looking for fun stuff to do, maybe a little 'woman's group' type of thing, etc. However, I teach it as a dance, as serious as jazz or ballet. I've been told that when people sign up for a bellydance class, that isn't what they are looking for. I was told once, "The way you teach, you aren't going to have tons of students - but you will produce good dancers."

So my question is - am I approaching this all wrong? Should I dumb it down?

I know of someone who dumbs it down big time...so much so that it's really a line dance style belly dance class. She has 50+ in her class. That tells us something, huh?

Would I dumb down... never. I teach quality dance with technique and all the styles I know. Why dumb it down. Dumb it down to what? I'd rather teach a handful of students who wanted to learn all I had to teach, then a shedful of people who just wanted to do glorified step class.

I think we should give people what they want if they are are paying to be there. I differentiate the 5 classes I teach a week. If I didnt I would go mad - and it gives them a choice of the level and intensity they want to learn at.

I like the opportunity to take a serious class and a just for fun class. At different times through the years I have been ready to buckle down and at other times I just needed to have some fun and socialize. It seems like good business practice to offer choices.

I think if they want a fun class or an exercise class, you could probably call it a belly-cize class. This way you don't compromise the integrity of the dance.

I would love to see someone go to a ballet school with the same idea as your students. I don't think it would fly for a minute. But bellydance is a different kind of dance, more fun and interacting, but I think I would change the name of the class instead just to appease myself.

I am not in favor of dumbing things down. I don't think you can truly appreciate belly dance without having cultural context and history.
I have two students that are receiving Private lessons. One is in favor learning background, vocabulary etc. The other just wants to learn a few moves for clubbing. Unfortunately, I've had to dumb down because I need the money.

I've taught a bellydance aerobics style class before, but I suppose my worry is that if I don't fill them in on things right away they might go off and become six-week wonders.

^ Then maybe spend the first class on a really condenced version of the juicy stuff?

Originally Posted by anala

I think we should give people what they want if they are are paying to be there.

I think some people don't know what they want at first. As a pre-beginner, I searched for a burn-off-some-calories class, too. I ended up with what I wasn't looking for, luckly! A good dance teacher who totally changed my perspective and made me a keener. I have so much more respect for dancers, now, and am very glad she didn't dumb it down for me! :)

Ooh, same problem. The title of my class is bellydance fitness, but I don't teach an exercise class and I don't want to. I don't go hardcore but I do stress how important ME rhythms are and how to move to them, and I "mention" fun facts like how styles differ, the significance of the song they are listening to, etc. And then sometimes I'll take the couple moves we learned that hour and put them together into a "combo" so that people feel like they really are dancing, that seems to really work for the short-timers. But I find a lot of people decide to take the Zumba class before mine instead if they really are looking to break a sweat, or the pole dance class if they want to feel naughty. I find a serious bellydance student maybe once every 3 months or so.

Originally Posted by BreaMorgiane

So my question is - am I approaching this all wrong? Should I dumb it down?

Don't dumb it down! As a student, I would hate that.

I don't teach dance, but I teach art. I have students come into my class and ask, "Can't we just draw our feelings today?" (This is usually just the teenagers though. The elementary and middle school students go with the flow pretty well.) It does get infuriating, but it doesn't mean I'm going to let up on the art history and aesthetics portions of my classes. Instead, I have to think of ways to get the students to value that part of their education.

I think most people who begin a belly dance class have no idea there is so much to know, and may not know that they care. I know that most of my baby beginners don't know that they should care who Samia Gamal or Souheir Zaki is, or the complex relationship between the people (of Egypt especially), their beloved dance, and dancers themselves. It may just be too much at first for people who are just struggling to move their bodies in a way that they are not used to.

Keep in mind that how you present the information is as important as what you present. I think both approaches have their merits - I like to suck 'em in with the fun aspect, and then sprinkle in the knowledge as I go - telling students the names of dancers if a particular move is associated with her, along with the admonition to look that dancer up on youtube, and we discuss rhythms as they relate to whatever we're working on - I give a condensed explanation of the Saidi region and people, for instance...

But I do NOT structure my beginner classes as formally as ballet, for instance, because I know that's not why most beginners are there, and to do so would be to scare people off.

What we all need to remember is that this dance is, first and foremost, a social dance, and I would prefer to tap into the social aspect to appeal to the greatest number of people and have a broad student base, then I can add classes to appeal to the percentage of those dancers who are more serious about learning all they can.

Honestly, what I really want to transmit to my students is that feeling I had when I first started taking belly dance classes, that utter enchantment with the dance and the amazement that I was actually learning how to move my body in this way (and play finger cymbals, too!)...and part of that is giving them information in bite-sized chunks, and not overwhelming them with information right away. I want 'em hooked first, and then I get more serious, but I always keep in mind that most people do this to have fun, not to revisit world history class.

Maybe offer a short introductory class for posture, basic movements, introduce a ltitle music and history. Then give them the opportunity to move to the class with a little more serious approach.

I've just started attending a local instructor's bellydance fitness class and am really impressed how she's blending little technique tidbits with folkloric steps for cardio. She even announced very plainly that this was not designed to teach you to bellydance WELL.

Having these different classes for different types of student makes a lot of sense. If there's someone in any kind of class who is determined to go "perform" after six weeks, there's nothing you can say or do to discourage them; those people are determined.

The local dance school offers a "basics" 6-week class for people who want to dip in a toe and "level 1" for those who want to jump in the pool. They are similar but level 1 has a lot more correction!

I'm not a fan of dumbing anything down. On the other hand, I think it's important to scale the level/amount of info you present to the level of your students. As TamraHenna said:

Originally Posted by tamrahennatx

I want 'em hooked first, and then I get more serious

I keep my beginners' classes fun and light, but at the same time I try to prep them adequately in technique and with nuggets of cultural/historical/musical info, under the assumption that some of them WILL progress on and therefore will need a solid foundation for the harder stuff that's to come.

Truth in advertising is key; be clear about your dance philosophy, class structure, level system, etc. before students sign up. THen they know what they are getting into.

I don't think you should dumb it down, but maybe you should think about the academic knowledge in the same way you think about movement skills - beginning middle advanced. For example, in their first 6 weeks of class maybe teach your students the name of only one rhythm and save other rhythms for later classes. And maybe dont mention more than one famous dancer in a 6-week series. So just as you wouldnt teach someone how to layer a shimmy over a figure 8 while doing Samia Gamal arms in the first 6 weeks of class, maybe you should design your syllabus so that some of the academic stuff is saved for later as well.

Smart women want to have fun, too!

No one signs up for a recreational dance class to sit through lectures or watch videos. But as long as they get to dance and have fun, laugh and shimmy, no one minds if you call out "this is the Maksoum rhythm, here that DTKTDKT?" while you're doing it. Or if you give little tidbits of info during the warmup and cooldown. Once a month or so you can let them cool down on their own while watching a video clip. Or one of the choreographies you teach could be Saidi, beledi, etc with all the accompanying info.

I start my Level 1 students out with just learning movements & simple choreo. I may sneak in a few tidbits of info.. and I often show videos right after their class and invite them to stay and watch if they want.

In Level 2 I introduce Saiidi and more cultural context info. The focus is still primarily on the movements, though.

Those that make Level 3 have been studying for about a year, I consider them serious and start really teaching rhtythms and cultural context. Last week they learned 2-beat rhythms, played them on 'drums' (coffee cans) and finger cymbals. This week they saw documentary clips of a zar ritual and a Khaleegy party. Then they saw how Jillina used both those rhtythms in a drum solo. Then they learned some Khaleegy steps. They're still having fun... but if they'd turned up for their first 'bellydance' class and had THAT experience, they probably wouldn't have come back.

It's a gradually deepening process, IMO.

I like how Lauren does it...
But DON'T dumb it down...just don't throw everything at people who are just beginners...like said above, get them hooked first, and throw in some info every now and then. I think the more someone takes classes, the more they might be interested in learning more than just the dancing.

Originally Posted by Souzan

Maybe offer a short introductory class for posture, basic movements, introduce a ltitle music and history. Then give them the opportunity to move to the class with a little more serious approach.

This is the format I use. Only about 10% of students move from Beginning into Level 2 (which they are able to do after completing 2 6-week sessions of Beginning), but the ones who do are consciously deciding to take a more challenging and serious class. I am lucky to say that most of the students who stick around past the first session of Level 2 (it's an ongoing class) tend to be in it for a very long time. I have more than a few students who have been with me in Level 2 for two to three years.

What tamrahennatx said here is pretty much where I'm coming from:

What we all need to remember is that this dance is, first and foremost, a social dance, and I would prefer to tap into the social aspect to appeal to the greatest number of people and have a broad student base, then I can add classes to appeal to the percentage of those dancers who are more serious about learning all they can.

Originally Posted by kharis_UK

I know of someone who dumbs it down big time...so much so that it's really a line dance style belly dance class. She has 50+ in her class. That tells us something, huh?

I dont think you have to "dumb it down" to teach 50+. I have a whole group of students that are 55+ and yes im not making them do floorwork or high tempo movements all the time but they have been working hard for over 2 years, they think its fun but the also take it serious and 3 of them are actually whit me in Turkey right now dancing in 35 degrees many hours a day.

You never get to old to for enjoying dance in my opion, maybe to old to learn to make the movements perfect but that still dont meen that I dont teach seriously or that my students dont take their classes seriously.

Originally Posted by dansoz

I dont think you have to "dumb it down" to teach 50+. I have a whole group of students that are 55+ .

I think Kharis meant that teacher had more than 50 students in her class.

Thank you for all your responses! Maybe two separate classes is the answer.

I always think the most useful thing is to put yourself in the student's position.

Imagine if you signed up for my yoga class and I wanted to lecture you about the history of yoga in India and the Western world, the traditional Sanskirt names for the poses, the Hindu legends that the poses are named for, the famous Yogis who've written texts or advanced our understanding.

You probably wouldn't mind if I mentioned a few of those things over the course of the 6-week sesson, you might even enjoy it. Unless you felt like you weren't *doing the yoga* that you came to do.

Most people coming into yoga OR bellydance want exercise, first and foremost. They've been sitting in chairs all day or all week, they want to move and feel invigorated. As long as you keep that as your primary focus and use facts and knowledge to enhance their experience, it's all good.

Those serious balletmistresses would go out of business if they only taught adult beginners. Adult beginners don't *want* to be all serious about ballet, and if they're not getting what they came for, they won't come back. It's different when Mom is paying the bill and making you go whether it's fun or not.

I am with Lauren.

In the beginning class you can just "sprinkle" some of the context - some rhythms, some culture, background, music, history, Middle Eastern customs, etc. I do it like that in the beginning class, and always see the students face light up. I feel that that much info is just right. As they progress along on higher levels you should give them more, but they are probably hungry for that as well.

I don't think keeping a beginner class "basic" is dumbing it down. You only want to give as much information as they can take.
A lot of students are interested in moving - not just the ones that want to have fun, but the ones that will take it seriously.
However, you can only give all the background info by standing around and talking. Students in the beginning classes don't like that.

What I also do is to send weekly or biweekly emails to students relating to class (encouraging them to keep coming) and all the background info - links to website, sometimes links to Youtube clips, etc. This way if they want it, they'll read it, if not, oh well. Kind of a win-win situation.
I also made a page for my students on my website - they can read that at their leisure time.

Don't dumb it down. People may want something they don't know they want. That said, having two styles of class is a good idea.

Originally Posted by mysterywoman

I don't think you should dumb it down, but maybe you should think about the academic knowledge in the same way you think about movement skills - beginning middle advanced. For example, in their first 6 weeks of class maybe teach your students the name of only one rhythm and save other rhythms for later classes. And maybe dont mention more than one famous dancer in a 6-week series. So just as you wouldnt teach someone how to layer a shimmy over a figure 8 while doing Samia Gamal arms in the first 6 weeks of class, maybe you should design your syllabus so that some of the academic stuff is saved for later as well.

This. I would be very upset if 15 minutes of a 60 minute class were spent solely on rhythms, history, culture, famous dancers, or "bellydance as mythology" (sorry, what exactly does that mean?). I can surf the web or read a book for that kind of information. Even 15 minutes out of 90 would wear on my nerves...the exception is when this stuff is taught DURING dancing and drilling. I'm in class to learn how to dance, to get correction, to watch my teacher demonstrating moves correctly. A good dance teacher will drop bits of information here and there, so that the students have time to absorb it. She doesn't have to spend a lot of separate time on it - if the students don't care about all that stuff, they won't pay attention to a lecture to begin with. If the students do care/are interested, they'll remember it even if you told them during a shimmy drill.

I've taken music lessons before, and none of my teachers thought it was necessary to teach me the history of the instrument, the culture of Europe, all about famous musicians...they put learning the instrument first. I did get a little bit of history and philosophy in M.E. drum classes...and learned that I prefer a strong focus on learning the technique of the performance art that I signed up for.

A stronger focus on the dance side is not "dumbing it down", unless you are downgrading your dance instruction as well. If you think dancing is dumb, you shouldn't be a dance teacher. Most community ed/studio bellydance students signed up to learn how to dance, and I think you should respect that.

Da Sage, have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts? You tell it like it is and don't pull punches, and your opinions are always well-informed and well thought-out. So even when I don't agree with you, I always respect you as a fellow Bhuzzer.

(only marginally relevant to this specific post - more a cumulative reaction)

Originally Posted by da Sage

I would be very upset if 15 minutes of a 60 minute class were spent solely on rhythms, history, culture, famous dancers, or "bellydance as mythology" (sorry, what exactly does that mean?). I can surf the web or read a book for that kind of information. Even 15 minutes out of 90 would wear on my nerves...the exception is when this stuff is taught DURING dancing and drilling. I'm in class to learn how to dance, to get correction, to watch my teacher demonstrating moves correctly. A good dance teacher will drop bits of information here and there, so that the students have time to absorb it.

Then you'll hate my beginner classes - first 8 weeks - yes, we do 15 minutes out of the 75 on this. Why? Partly,because most of them cannot dance for 75 minutes. Partly, so I can rely on a base known by all students. I would rather they did not get their info from the net - 95% of which is crap. And no, you cannot watch a video while learning new movments - while you are learning you need to concentrate on that - and watch the mirror not a TV set.

Do they like it? The most requested activity I get in class is to see a video. Often they will have something specific to watch but often they say "just educate us". Sometimes we will try some of the moves we see. Sometimes we will discuss costume or musicality. Sometimes we just watch. But this is as important as drilling or combos. Both of which experienced students can do at home.

Originally Posted by kashmir

Then you'll hate my beginner classes - first 8 weeks - yes, we do 15 minutes out of the 75 on this. Why? Partly,because most of them cannot dance for 75 minutes. Partly, so I can rely on a base known by all students. I would rather they did not get their info from the net - 95% of which is crap. And no, you cannot watch a video while learning new movments - while you are learning you need to concentrate on that - and watch the mirror not a TV set.

Do they like it? The most requested activity I get in class is to see a video. Often they will have something specific to watch but often they say "just educate us". Sometimes we will try some of the moves we see. Sometimes we will discuss costume or musicality. Sometimes we just watch. But this is as important as drilling or combos. Both of which experienced students can do at home.

15 out of 75 minutes is not so bad. It might wear on my nerves, but it's tolerable. I can see how this would be especially important for beginners who might have never seen bellydance performed - the local teachers tend to send us to watch live performances instead of using videos, but this is not always convenient. I think it's also good for their business when they send students to watch a performance, but I certainly can't blame them for it!

I think I've watched videos twice in bellydance class, over four years of instruction. It's not part of the local class culture, but I think it's a valuable practice if used well. We used videos a lot in a college folk/popular dance course, which was very helpful.

I think watching dance is important to train the eye...taking it all in at once, students can pick up more than they realize, at first. Personally though, I had to train my body to dance for a while, before I could "see" many subtle elements of the dance. Now I still miss stuff, but I often know that I'm missing something, that I didn't absorb it, when before I didn't know at all. This is why I'm so avid about dancing during dance class - it activates different parts of the brain. Maybe I'm just slow though - I imagine people who took dance as children don't have a problem with this.

I might love your video breaks - after all, your students enjoy it and relate it to their "regular" dance time. It's obvious that you do a great job of integrating it into your curriculum. But if many of your students were complaining about not dancing enough, would you reconsider how much time you spend on the videos?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Da Sage, have I ever told you how much I enjoy your posts? You tell it like it is and don't pull punches, and your opinions are always well-informed and well thought-out. So even when I don't agree with you, I always respect you as a fellow Bhuzzer.

(only marginally relevant to this specific post - more a cumulative reaction)

My mother brings an open mouth to every situation, and I confess that I've inherited that tendency, too. I'm not sure it's a positive trait, but I'm glad it's entertaining...g.:

Originally Posted by dansoz

I dont think you have to "dumb it down" to teach 50+. I have a whole group of students that are 55+ and yes im not making them do floorwork or high tempo movements all the time but they have been working hard for over 2 years, they think its fun but the also take it serious and 3 of them are actually whit me in Turkey right now dancing in 35 degrees many hours a day.

You never get to old to for enjoying dance in my opion, maybe to old to learn to make the movements perfect but that still dont meen that I dont teach seriously or that my students dont take their classes seriously.

You have misread my post. She has 50+ people in her class. Age is not what I meant.