Thread: What makes it good?

I have taken a few baby steps to begin forming my own choreos for my troupe. The Youtube clip I posted a few days ago was an original choreo, but is was a months long labor of love and I collaberated with several troupe members who were more experienced than I at the time. They have unfortunately moved on - or away. As I am terrified of the blank page, the empty canvas...I am modifying and expanding Jilinas Alf Leyla choreo for troupe use. This brings me to my question....what makes it a good troupe choreo, both from the dancers perspective and the GP?

My main one... interaction.

A bunch of people sharing a stage doing the same dance does not a choreography make. get them to interact, even if only a little.

HTH!

HTH?

Heart to Heart?

I second the interaction. And everyone doesn't have to be doing exactly the same thing all the time. Interesting floor patterns. Good response to the music. It's a lot of work, that's for sure! Just dive in there and get started and your creative juices will take over.

My artist brother says, "You've had a lot of good creative ideas before, haven't you? Well, then, you will have plenty more, as many as you need!" by way of encouragement when artist's block strikes.

I came from a "dance team" background and was used to lots of formation changes, level changes, and other such things that make it exciting for the eye to watch...

I think with bellydance, I still keep that in mind (but not nearly as much- dance teams/cheer squads cram way too much in one dance!). While some of my choreographies end up being a group a girls doing the same moves at the same time, my favorites (and the most interesting to watch) are the ones where everyone isn't necesarily doing the same thing...

I like to layer choreography on top of itself, so the dancers aren't all doing the same thing but it still flows and connects and looks good as a whole piece. It's more interesting to the eye (at least for me) and I think it's alot harder for the audience to get bored, especially if it's a long choreography.

However, doing it that way means you are really creating like 3 versions of one dance...Woooo time consuming!
If I don't do that, I'll at least change up the formations/spacing at least once during the dance. A group of girls standing in two lines for 4 minutes isn't the most interesting thing in the world, you know? Plus moving them around gives a chance for more dancers to be seen (in you switch up who's in front and such)

You'd also want to think about the type of venue. If you'll be performing the choreography on a large stage with TONS of people, or if you'll be pretty far away from the audience (in an auditorium or something) then it's best to have simpler movements and make them BIG! I've seen groups do some really awesome, intricate layering-on-top-of-shimmies that looked great up close, but from 10 feet away it just got lost. You can do smaller faster movements in a restaurant setting, but on a big stage it just doesn't work.

Maybe not the steps themselves as much as the execution of the steps. Meaning, you don't have to put wild and uber difficult moves for a troupe number to come across impactfully.

Synchronicity, coordination, timing, the aforementioned interaction makes a wonderful troupe choreo anytime over difficult steps and combinations.

Also, do what would look cool in a group. Take advantage of all the bodies in one performance space. If, for example, Jillina's choreo was made for a solo artist, utilize your multiple bodies to create different levels, shapes, formations, etc. in the performance space, rather than everyone performing it as if they were all soloists performing at the same time (I'm sure you've already thought of this with your use of the word "adapting").

Originally Posted by dunyah

Heart to Heart?

I second the interaction. And everyone doesn't have to be doing exactly the same thing all the time. Interesting floor patterns. Good response to the music. It's a lot of work, that's for sure! Just dive in there and get started and your creative juices will take over.

My artist brother says, "You've had a lot of good creative ideas before, haven't you? Well, then, you will have plenty more, as many as you need!" by way of encouragement when artist's block strikes.

Yes! and good response to the music!!! That is my number one issue when I try to get my students to create solo choreographies or small group combos in class. LISTEN to the music and do movements that reflect what the music is telling you. Alot of beginning dancers will just count out a song into 8 counts and put in moves that may be in time with the music, but has no connection to what the instruments are doing.... if that makes sense.

Watch lots of group choreos in Belly as well as other dance forms for inspiration.

I like to have my students switch formations so that everyone gets a turn in the front - whether they want it or not!

Wow okay apparently I have alot to say..

I just thought of one more thing... If you've already got some choreographies that are more like a bunch of soloists dancing at the same time, experiment with various spacings and shapes.

I had one dance that we've just decided is a 5 person dance, no matter what. We tried it with more and it didn't look right, we tried it with less and it didn't look right. We discovered after multiple times watching ourselves do it, that it looks great when we squish 5 girls really close together and move more as a "bouncy egyptian blob" (as we refer to it haha). When it's spaced out, it is easier to dance and not worry about hitting each other, but it doesn't have the same effect.

I guess my point is, you can always take a finished choreography and experiment and change up simple things like spacing to give it a whole new vibe.

From my little bit of troupe experience I can offer just a few little things. In the troupe I was in the heights of the dancers ranged from 5' to 6'2". Made for some interesting formations. Once on stage we kind of goofed it up and had the line up be from tallest to shortest. We looked like the Von Trapp children in very odd costumes (for the Von Trapp children, anyway). So balance that out if necessary.

The other thing is that not every drum beat needs to be choreographed. The last shimmy we worked on was so over choreographed that we never really learned it and it was constantly being changed (sometimes the night before a performance). When you have more than one person on stage, I think that fewer movements well-placed and REALLY well rehearsed make more of an impact and look sharper than 7 people trying to catch that last teka in a tawheel (sp).

Also (OK so I guess I had a lot to say ;)), that same shimmy had four quick drops in it and at least three of the troupe members has knee problems. Bad combination. While the choreographer does need to take control of the piece, I think if something isn't working, they should take that into consideration. (I say that in general, not directed at Anala specifically.)

teehee, the height issue always gets alot of laughs within our group. I always tell our tallest girls that I don't want them to stand by me in a dance cuz they have cooties, but really I've just seen what it looks like with little 5'0 me standing between two girls who look a foot taller. I end up being the focus of attention simply because I look like I'm about 10 years old! We have since learned how to arrange ourselves so people will be paying attention to the dancing, not pointing out that "tall/short girl in the middle!"

=op

We make a pyramid with tallest ... me ... either in the rear back, or the front center. Sometimes we make a line with tallest at the ends descending to the shortest in the middle. We do change formation often in a choreo, and it is hard to reform with the height of dancers in consideration sometimes. Interaction is important for me as well. You know what I have never seen here on bhuz...a troupe asking for peer review...why do you think that is? I wonder if I should do it with my youtube clip? hmmm....

I like to layer choreography on top of itself, so the dancers aren't all doing the same thing but it still flows and connects and looks good as a whole piece. It's more interesting to the eye (at least for me) and I think it's alot harder for the audience to get bored, especially if it's a long choreography.

However, doing it that way means you are really creating like 3 versions of one dance...Woooo time consuming!
If I don't do that, I'll at least change up the formations/spacing at least once during the dance. A group of girls standing in two lines for 4 minutes isn't the most interesting thing in the world, you know? Plus moving them around gives a chance for more dancers to be seen (in you switch up who's in front and such)

Said so much better then I could.

Oh.. HTH= Hope that helps. Sorry for the confusion!

And everyone else has contributed tip-top ideas too.

In troupe choreographies usually put in less moves. Use more repetition with changes in direction or accent. Use the floor to make interesting patterns - but don't over do it!

Work to the limit or your least able dancer or otherwise use a duet or solo break (nothing worse than one person doing something really hard well and 6 crappy copies - ditto with flexiblity backbend to the group - not to show how flexible you are)

Dance as a group - not a bunch of soloists sharing the stage. If need be choreograph in the places where people catch each other's eyes and share a smile.

Use of stage
Timing
Lots of different directions BUT still in sych.
Costumes that look to be in the same family.(I hate watching a troupe that has someone looking like Rachel Brice, someone else looking all American Cabaret, and yet someone else in a Drop dead beautiful Bella)

Making it intresting via level changes, flowing into and out of shapes on the floor the square and triangle patterns are powerful. Also if the music has a chorus usr the same steps to tie together the whole choreo. (hope that makes sence!)

Great feedback here!

For me, it's two things: Group interaction/movement, and feeling.

Group interaction & movement -- a bunch of dancers standing side by side and doing the same thing is as interesting as a school of fish. Don't get me wrong- it's perfectly appropriate for a class of students to perform this way. But a troupe should be able to handle multiple parts, travel between formations, etc. Perhaps the front row is dancing the melody while the back row takes the rhythm and a few accents for a verse, then they switch. Or the dancers change formations onstage, from a circle to a line to a V. Or the dancers in front kneel.

Even better if the dancers occasionally face each other, smile, literally interact.

For the second, the feeling -- I've learned over the years that group choreos HAVE to be much simpler than a solo can be. A complex or demanding choreo stresses the dancers, and even slight differences in ability show up as huge differences onstage. Leave detailed musical interpretation, lots of spins, fine layering, flowing armwork etc. for solos. In a group, the arms and head positions should be simple and clear, the hip articulations big, clean and uncluttered. (imagine watching a stagefull of dancers quiver their way through a kanoun taksim -- some things that are amazing in a soloist don't work for a group). Big movements show up best on a group. (which is why I feel like group choreo is a poor way to teach solo skills)

In order for the dancers to be able to relax, feel the music, emote and give off great energy onstage, they need a simple, clear choreo that they feel confident in.

For ideas on group choreographing, and for fabulous dance in general, I would highly recommend getting the dvd of the Norwegian bellydance group "Divas of bellydance", a collaboration between the main teachers on the Norwegian belly dance scene (one of them is DaVid`s teacher!).

I had their video sent all the way to Egypt and everyone I show it to comment on the choreos, IMHO they are very good at finding the balance between breaking up the group, everyone doing the same thing, one dancer doing a solo while the rest are "cameling" in the back, etc etc. The dvd has both group numbers, duets and solos, there are lots and lots of ideas here!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J54UNU0UpgM]YouTube - Divas of Bellydance - So You Think You Can Dance Norway[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY4ly4XfQ8c&feature=channel]YouTube - Divas of Bellydance - DVD out now![/ame]