Thread: How do you choreograph?

Physically, that is?

I'm wondering if I'm a bit unusual in my method. I head down to the local coffee shop and sit there with iPod on head, pad in hand and let the movements come to me as I listen. Listen, scribble madly, listen, scribble madly, wave my hands around a bit in the air, accidentally shoulder shimmy, feel by butt cheeks clenching in time...but mostly I'm still. I must look a little odd, and the waiters must think I'm scribbling in some alien language (which is also what I wonder when I try to decifer it later). Then I go home and try it all out in front of the mirror. Surprisingly, usually it all works!

I've found I just can't choreograph at home (too dull) or by trying the moves physically first. It limits me to what I can physically do straight off, and I'm just not that creative that way, whereas my imagination knows no bounds.

So how do you work?

LOL. You wrote about your method before -- unless there's another coffeeshop choreographer on Bhuz.

I'm going to try it. I actually thought about you when I had to sit at the doctor's office for hours yesterday waiting for my mom. I brought my laptop and headphones and worked on a choreo for my students. I don't think I looked too insane, except for the bit with the shoulder rolls and giant campy WINK!

I listen to my music about 10 bajillion times before getting to work. In the shower, the car, doing housework, et cetera. The little movements start to pop out of me at random times--driving, rinsing my hair. Sounds similar to your process.
I'm anal about counting & not good about "just feeling the music". This is partly because I have a 9-member professional company and we don't all "feel the music" the same way. So once I get down to the nitty gritty I figure out what fits & what goes well with the music in a more structured way.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

LOL. You wrote about your method before -- unless there's another coffeeshop choreographer on Bhuz.

I'm going to try it. I actually thought about you when I had to sit at the doctor's office for hours yesterday waiting for my mom. I brought my laptop and headphones and worked on a choreo for my students. I don't think I looked too insane, except for the bit with the shoulder rolls and giant campy WINK!

..l;, Now, that could be a good excuse if a cute waiter comes by! Perhaps I can 'choreograph' in a pinch on the bum, too?

(Oh, so inappropriate! I can just imagine what I'd think if any of my clients tried that!)

I sit and map the music as I listen. A lined note pad, each line is 2 "sentences" of music. My alphabet is lines and sqiggles round and sharp,wavey lines for vocals very loose but easily deciphered. I then identify the repetition in the lines and start to put it together from what I see on the paper. I go back and mark the counts and the accents...listen to it over and over again as I look at my notes, and then get up and just move...knowing where all the accents will fall and where the music is going to go.

Well I've been forced to choreograph on a moment's notice. Often at the last minute like 2 weeks before a performance a desperately struggling group gets a hold of me. Typically the group has had weeks to prepare. It's difficult on my end because I have to come in from scratch and figure out WHAT they can do before I can choreograph. Often I don't have that luxury!!!!! So what I do is approach the music from a very analytical standpoint. I break it down to measures and themes. I count out every litttle thing. Then I visualize it as what I would do. Then after that I break it down to what a beginner class would do. And somewhere in between comes a working choreo that I can write down and translate. I have to say I do listen to the music a frickin million times before I even come up with a beginner choreo. For myself? I need to be able to hum and sing every instrument, pause, sequence before I dare choreo it. But I'm an improv dancer at heart...

I do a lot of choreo in the car!. It's a great way to multitask when you are constantly traveling from teaching venue to teaching venue. Or in my case have a two hour drive each way for my own private lessons.

Originally Posted by laura 2

I do a lot of choreo in the car!. It's a great way to multitask when you are constantly traveling from teaching venue to teaching venue. Or in my case have a two hour drive each way for my own private lessons.

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;, Shahla just brought in a section for our new drum solo piece that she did in the car. I learned my rhythms on my drive from California to Maine 10 years ago. My Solace Rhythm of the Drum TAPE was worn out when I arrived. I would play the pads of my fingers (to build my zill patterns) while driving on the long straight stretches of road in middle america.

I have to dance it. I just dance and dance and try not to think, i.e. edit and thereby limit my creativity. Eventually pieces start to fit, kinda like finding pieces in a puzzle. This means that I don't necessarily choreograph chronologically. It may start with a chunk in the middle, a little bit at the end, a few measures in the beginning. I do also listen to the music a bunch and get an idea about how the different sections in the piece I am using make me feel.

I car-eograph too, but then I have to go home and dance it because sometimes what my brain thinks my body can do and what my body can actually do are not the same.

Simpler songs progress naturally using that process, but sometimes a tough piece will get scribbled down -- the whole song literally drawn in circles, waves, curvy lines and accent marks and then I go back and fill in pieces I like.

If I have an improv performance on tape, it's a lot easier to fix it into a choreography...otherwise I just can't decide which move wins out of all the available options! ;)

It'd be fun to scan and upload our choreography notes - I bet they really would look like an alien language. I wonder if we'd be able to decifer each other's squiggles?

Jewel, your posts always crack me up!!!

Originally Posted by nasila

car-eograph

Love it!

Originally Posted by nasila

car-eograph

This must go into the bhuz dictionary for sure!..l;,

I understand the coffee shop/car methods a lot. I have to go for a walk to choreograph. I can't sit and listen well, and I can't stand in front of a mirror, I have to walk around. Ideally I need to find a place to walk where no one can see me wandering around oddly, sometimes doing little bits of movement :)

I'll admit that I am a very bad boy when it comes to how I choreograph...
Most of the time I listen to the music - pause - note down what I movements I hear - continue listening - pause - note...etc etc etc. (Sometimes I just hum the song if I know it) Sometimes I will test run by marking out each section with my body prior to continuing the listening. If I do test run the material; I don't execute the movements fully during this process as I am more focused on getting the details I have in my mind down on paper. I usually can produce a 4 minute choreography for a general purpose in 30-40 minutes.

I mostly do this...anywhere I am at. In the office, at the studio, walking down the street, at the gym...

I use the EDA Dance Notation System so I am pretty sure you wouldn't understand my notes without an explanation...

The EDA DNS is a form of short-hand notation technique and system with abbreviations symbols and a templated format of notation that was developed to increase consistency and ledgability of dance notes in the EDA. It keeps things consistent, precise, short and easy to read - in other words, the potential of understanding your notes later increases immensely ;) The system has also helped me think more organized when I develop my material whether I note it down or not.

...like, the other day I was out and about standing at a red light...this song pops into my head...I hum it in my head and put together the 30 first seconds of the song while standing there...I still havent noted it down - but thanks to the "clarity of mind" the notation system has provided I am able to remember what I came up with with no problem.

I think this is especially helpful for dancers that have not gone through a dance studio system and are not necessarily used to retaining choreography - or have a hard time retaining choreography.

...the "proper" way I was taught to do it is to listen to the song. Analyze the sequences and note these down - note down changes in rhythm, mood, instrumentation and melody line. Then take the blocked (or chunked out) out music and set the general purpose for each sequence. Then set the movements for each sequence with these pre-defined parameters assisting you to work effectively and with a more clear vision of what the piece is all about and the purpose of the piece/choreography.
...I do this sometimes....

Originally Posted by david

"clarity of mind" the notation system has provided I am able to remember what I came up with with no problem.

Showoff!!!!..l;,..l;,..l;,

My clairty of mind ends at remembering the correct way to drive home.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Showoff!!!!..l;,..l;,..l;,

My clairty of mind ends at remembering the correct way to drive home.

LOL, sorry, that came off differently than intended, huh? lol :)

I have to admit...I use pretty much all of the above methods except DaVid's and I often choreograph inside out. There are many crazy little drawings all over the place, and I'm sure my newer troupe members probably wonder if I'm a paranoid schizophrenic (afterall, I apparently had to create a new language of hieroglyphics to hide my choreo secrets from the aliens....) The gals who've been with me longer...they know I'm just a little nuts.

Basically...when I hear music, I "see" movement in my mind. Always have since I was a little girl. But it's rarely linear. So, I usually have a good idea how I want the piece to flow, maybe even have some little bits mostly choreographed right away when I hear the music...but it's not counted out and I couldn't explain it. And...there are bits of "magic" in between those parts that aren't choreographed.

So, then I have to go back in and listen to the music, "see" the movement for more parts. That might happen anywhere--coffee shop, car, grocery store, train, airplane.... Or I might just dance to it. At some point, too, I have to count it all out so I can start writing down the things I want to have happen in my chicken scrawl. That may happen in the studio or in a coffee shop. Then I need to go back in and make the notes more specific with counts because, well, it really helps the gals if I can tell them specifics. :-) And eventually, I have to go back and fill in those "magic" parts. (Sometimes, though, I have to see how the parts before and after the unknown "magic" part looks on the group before I can decide how I want that transition to work.)

Because I don't choreograph linearly, sometimes I start teaching a piece from the middle and then go back to the beginning...or I have to say "Ok, now 16 counts of magic--we'll come back to that later...." My poor patient ladies. They're used to it now though, and they do a great job adapting to my wack-a-doodle creative process.

Am I certifiable?

I've done it while riding on the train. Maybe it's the rhythm of the wheels?

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Showoff!!!!..l;,..l;,..l;,

My clairty of mind ends at remembering the correct way to drive home.

..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,..l;,
Precious. I love that. ..g.:

To clarify when I said I don't use the method David uses I meant only that I don't use EDA. I *do* break down instrumentation and rhythm changes etc. in my notes.

i car-eograph too (love that 'word' hehe). i can't write down anything worth shiz. i have to listen to the song a gazillion times over (usually in my car which is when i have time to listen to it) and then dance it out once i get home. i know in my mind what i want to do for the big dramatical musical parts/sections, and then the rest i either work out over time or leave room for improv.

I'm kind of jealous. It seems like most of you see things in your head/visualize your choreography. I think this is an advantage to my way of just dancing it out. I find that when I am choreographing a group piece where everyone has a different role, it is very hard for me because I don't visualize it. It's just not the way I do it. When it comes to dance, the body tells me what to do. The body knows when it's right, and I don't get that feedback if I am only thinking about it. The downside to this is that it limits where and when I can choreograph.
However, I can relate to how being in a car or driving a car can get your creative juices flowing. (I also love the term car-eograph.) In college I studied creative writing, and I composed many a poem while driving. I also do a lot of brainstorming in the car.

I car-eograph too! LOL! Although often, I either visualize something and then get to the studio and try it out and it looks terrible, or I simply forget. Hard to write notes while in the car. I'm with Tina, I have a really hard time visualizing (hence the awful color of the walls in my last apt.!).

The other thing that usually happens is that certain parts of the music come easily, while other sections I draw a total blank. So what I do when I have a blank spot is go to my "bucket 'o moves" - literally, a bucket I have with every single move/isolation/variation I can think of written on small cards. And I draw three or four randomly and I force myself to work with just those moves. I also keep a collection of all the combos I've learned at workshops, dvds, etc. that I can use as a reference.

Originally Posted by elljay

The other thing that usually happens is that certain parts of the music come easily, while other sections I draw a total blank. So what I do when I have a blank spot is go to my "bucket 'o moves" - literally, a bucket I have with every single move/isolation/variation I can think of written on small cards. And I draw three or four randomly and I force myself to work with just those moves. I also keep a collection of all the combos I've learned at workshops, dvds, etc. that I can use as a reference.

Now, that's a really good idea. I often have blank spots that just won't come to me, and I really have to force myself to slot in any old thing. Perhaps this is where some handy little combos can come in.

I don't quite car-eograph, but I car-improvise on the way to gigs, as I listen to my music and work out what I'll do (yeah, like it ever goes according to plan!). It's very easy to start driving on autopilot while I do this, and end up goodness-knows-where.

Now, am I the only one that has long conversations with themselves as they drive? I'm just so much more interesting than the shmucks on the radio. I love the era of the mobile phone - you no longer have to look mentally unbalanced to talk to yourself.

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

Now, am I the only one that has long conversations with themselves as they drive?

No...you're not.

Thank god for blue tooth devices. I mean...I don't have one, but sometimes when I realize I'm getting particularly animated at a stop light, I'll put my hand to my ear away from the driver on other side as though there is one there. ...Er...I mean, that's what *would* do if I did things like that.

(It really is at its worst when I'm working through major stuff for a big troupe show or something like that...I just get so excited...plus, I'm Mediterranean--I talk with my hands....)

Originally Posted by jewelbellydance

Now, am I the only one that has long conversations with themselves as they drive? I'm just so much more interesting than the shmucks on the radio. I love the era of the mobile phone - you no longer have to look mentally unbalanced to talk to yourself.

I totally do this. I think it's helpful to talk out loud when you are trying to work something out. At least it is for me. And like I said, I used to compose poetry while driving, and that was all out loud.

I listen to the music in the car too, over and over.
When I've heard the music enough I can then start to dance to it (at home).I can't think of moves without dancing them. Sometimes I think of a move when I'm listening in the car but when I try it out it doesn't fit.
I break the music up into sections and dance through a section at a time over and over. Eventually I'll do something I want to keep in so I do and gradually I fill in the blanks and the piece takes on some shape.
If there are lyrics I find out what it means first before I start choreographing because that always helps me a lot.
My method is very trial and error and takes ages but its the only way I can work

Originally Posted by Candi

I listen to the music in the car too, over and over.
When I've heard the music enough I can then start to dance to it (at home).I can't think of moves without dancing them. Sometimes I think of a move when I'm listening in the car but when I try it out it doesn't fit.
I break the music up into sections and dance through a section at a time over and over. Eventually I'll do something I want to keep in so I do and gradually I fill in the blanks and the piece takes on some shape.
If there are lyrics I find out what it means first before I start choreographing because that always helps me a lot.
My method is very trial and error and takes ages but its the only way I can work

Yep sounds like what I do. I only choreograph for troupe and the beginning of solo stuff.

Sometimes I'll have an idea of shape patterns but I have to try them out to see how they fit. I have some grand ideas but I know I'm not up to most of them.

Most of the time, I pop the headphones on hack away at something till it works or just about works. I'll run a phrase over and over I then scribble it down, make note of the time on the cd for that phrase, then count it. I don't work so good by counting but I know other people do so I need to the info to hand so we don't have a case of 'how many times do we do that?', me:'um whatever is in the music'...c::

I was working on something the other week. It kinda went like this. Opening pose..music starts....I move...2 beats...'that was ****'...stop music...start over...etc Other times I'll skim the part that isn't quite working just to run through the whole song to get a feel of it.

Originally Posted by aamel_MirahAmmal

Basically...when I hear music, I "see" movement in my mind.

Ahhh. Me too. I hear it, I see it, I am a pro choreographer in my mind. Translating it to my feet is another matter. (particularly the memory-retention part). I've always thought I could choreograph well for ice skaters, although I've never even been able to stand up in ice skates...but envisioning dramatic ice skating routines seems second nature to me. How bizarre is that???

Anyway, back to topic...

I hear a piece of music I like, then I dance to it (sometimes something that remarkably resembles the "funky chicken" or the moonwalk) and then I dance to it again, and then I dance to it again, and then I throw all of that out and start over and I repeat that very inefficient series of exercises until I figure out what I like where. I also am still at a stage in my dance education where I might think of a combination I learned somewhere and "plug it in" in a spot then build around that combo.

I've tried the writing it down first technique, and it usually has resulted in really flat choreos for me. Or I can't remember the movements from the page to my body. Sometimes writing down an idea can inspire me to get up and get moving though, even if I never do what I wrote down on paper. Notation is one reason for that...I don't have a notation, so i can't write things down fast enough to keep up with my brain.

My friend choreographs by drawing stick figures on the page. I have seen her notes, and they are really "cute"...seriously!..g.: