Thread: professional and amateurs and just for fun

I have been thinking about this for a while , it is very unique to bely dance that we have 3 different types of students and most teachers teach them the same way . I think teachers should have a class for the dancer who just wants to have fun and move , you know the ones that do not want to learn music theory , choreography and history of the dance .
In my opinion this is what anyone who would like to preform belly dance or call themselves a professional should learn . But a person who just wants a fun class of dance should not have to be held up to a professional's level of education or should they ?

Nope...but a little (snuck in once and a while as I walk to change my pod) wont kill em! I do a bit more in some classes than others, depending on who shows up, I am a walk in class for the most part...even though I use 3 different focal points for my classes.

Well, as a student, when I started 4 years ago it was to simply have fun and excersize. But, because my teacher included not only the dance movements but also the culture, the music, the differences in style it became more than simply a way to have fun for me. I joined her troupe and love the dance more thoroughly now. The teacher I take classes from does an excellent job by placing more of the culture, history, music style etc. in the level 2 than the level 1 class. Maybe that's the way do it. If they love the dance enough to take it to the next level then they should know all there is to know about it.

I think classes could be offered to cater to both types of students. Samay at Miami Dade College offers a class series for fitness and also one for students who want to become professional. I think it's a great idea!

Originally Posted by KelsNasim

Well, as a student, when I started 4 years ago it was to simply have fun and excersize. But, because my teacher included not only the dance movements but also the culture, the music, the differences in style it became more than simply a way to have fun for me. I joined her troupe and love the dance more thoroughly now. The teacher I take classes from does an excellent job by placing more of the culture, history, music style etc. in the level 2 than the level 1 class. Maybe that's the way do it. If they love the dance enough to take it to the next level then they should know all there is to know about it.

Well yes this is how it happened to most of us , this dance can be an all consuming drug , takes all my money and makes me do crazy things and yet i just keep coming back . Yes i think level 2 is one way to do it .

[QUOTE=anala;487404]Nope...but a little (snuck in once and a while as I walk to change my pod) wont kill em! I do a bit more in some classes than others, depending on who shows up, I am a walk in class for the most part...even though I use 3 different focal points for my classes.[/QUOTE

3 different focal points for classes ? not sure i get what you are saying ?

Sad little woman that I am , I still wonder why people don't find learning about history, theory, culture etc enjoyable.

This is one of my pet peeves. Instructors usually want to appeal to the majority of their students and many times students just want to use the class for exercise so these students are happy to just move something.

Those of us who want to really learn are held back by these students and it is really frustrating. When the teacher is approached with this, to preserve their income, and I can understand that, they feel they must go with the flow. Understandably that is okay, but then the one who really want to learn have to look elsewhere after believing that they were attending a real live bellydance instruction class.

I think these classes should be labelled for "fitness" as opposed to "instruction" also.

Tuesday is a more fitness based class. I dont break down stuff all that much and try and keep the heart rate up and we drill a lot, both fast and slow moves till the sweat pours. Wed is beginner class, Thursdays I focus on knitting together steps for combos and choreo. Repeat on all 3 in 2 classes (if they make) on Saturdays.

I decided that before I retired I would have 18 months teaching the kind of classes I always wanted to so now I teach once a month intensive classes-these are open to anyone who really knows the basics and really wants to develop their own dancing and their cultural own knowledge. My class is full of local and not so local teachers, and non teaching dancers too who often come from a long way away. I am having so much fun teaching these people and sharing the knowledge I've acquired over the last 20 years. i'm loving it. I have a class who all want to learn about the music, the culture, work on their dancing-its fabulous. I don't do choreos ,I just do Egyptian style, I don't have a troupe each person is developing as an individual dancer-some people want to perform some people just want to learn more so they can pass it on to their classes. We have a lot of fun. People drop in for as many classes as they can make because a lot of them are busy teachers and dancers themselves.
Its brilliant to teach a class whose eyes don't glaze over when you start telling them about the music, the lyrics or the culture.

Ooooo, Candi, I wish I could be in your class! Serious distance barrier, alas (like, the Atlantic Ocean plus a bit more). But it does sound just wonderful.
Rosette

One other comment; I do appreciate that Azahara starts out including a distinction between the "amateur" and the "just for fun" student rather than just talking about professionals and non-professionals. One can be an amateur dancer (ie, not dancing as a business) and still be deeply devoted to the dance and interested in learning about all aspects.
R

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Sad little woman that I am , I still wonder why people don't find learning about history, theory, culture etc enjoyable.

As an art and cultural historian, I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way!

Originally Posted by anala

Tuesday is a more fitness based class. I dont break down stuff all that much and try and keep the heart rate up and we drill a lot, both fast and slow moves till the sweat pours. Wed is beginner class, Thursdays I focus on knitting together steps for combos and choreo. Repeat on all 3 in 2 classes (if they make) on Saturdays.

I get it thanks.

Originally Posted by aazura

As an art and cultural historian, I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way!

No you are not alone . I also feel this way .

IMOP the teaching of the dance has turned into a fast paced , "here are the latest moves or steps form Egypt or big name dancer " , and if you learn them , buy a 1000.00 costume and are seen dancing on a DVD you are a super star , now go market yourself so the money can change hands all over again with the next generation of dancers. COMMERCIALIZED CAPITALISM at it's best .

I don't think it's unique to bellydance. Ballroom dance, martial arts, and a few other disciplines probably have all three as well.

Many things you have to begin as a child to ever consider going pro -- ballet and ice skating come to mind.

I think there's a system in place for this. Everyone starts out in a beginner class learning the basic isolations. Some people go on to an intermediate or advanced class -- which ought to include some cultural and musical info IMO -- many drop out at that point or go to a bellyrobics class (at my studio we have a drills class for them).

The ones who want to go pro (and serious amateurs who want to study at a higher level) attend workshops, learn on message boards, take private lessons, etc.

It seems like a good system to me.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Sad little woman that I am , I still wonder why people don't find learning about history, theory, culture etc enjoyable.

My thoughts exactly.,r:;

I think in bellydance a larger percentage of serious students actually go pro or at least perform solo. For example Salsa, many people want to learn to attend the salsa parties/clubs, but they still want to learn to dance well. There are opportunities to dance socially every week and you will find many people dancing well at parties. I have danced Salsa up to advanced level and there was not much music theory and cultural background taught. Just bits and pieces during the class here and there. Advanced students could dance demonstrations, but nobody would think about going pro unless they had lots of experience. In bellydance, unless there are lots of hafla's in the area, there is not really much other than performing or practicing for shows. On the other hand, there are also students taking bellydance classes at a gym that are not a course aimed at learned to dance, but just an hour of doing bellydance moves. Other dances don't offer anything less serious than the 8 week beginner course. So I do think there is a larger variety. If you meet two people who have taken classes for 2 years, they may really be worlds apart.

I don't think there's anything wrong with mentioning some information during a fitness class, something along the lines of where you might see certain moves or a little about the music (what the song is about, what movie it was in).

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Sad little woman that I am , I still wonder why people don't find learning about history, theory, culture etc enjoyable.

True and I wonder why because I think all of the above is fascinating. And makes the dance that much more interesting.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I don't think it's unique to bellydance. Ballroom dance, martial arts, and a few other disciplines probably have all three as well.

Many things you have to begin as a child to ever consider going pro -- ballet and ice skating come to mind.

Well, most ballet dancers and Ice skaters who become Professional or really dedicated amataurs generally stop dancing / skating at a high level in their late 20's / early 30's. Because their physical bodies simply cannot take the abuse.

And what is the drop out rate of those dance classes? I would say pretty high. Most little girls have at least a couple of years of ballet under their belt. The key is the motivation of their mothers putting them into dance class. And guess what? It's generally to help them learn to be poised and graceful, expose them to some culture and to make some social connections / friends. Not many of them continue on through University and into companies like I did. And even I left after University when it became too demanding / my life didn't support my continuing to dance / no money to indulge in the extra classes, etc which were really required if I was to maintain my ballet dancing. (Ironically, I had a chance in my early 20's to study with one of the dancers from Port of Athens here in Los Angeles. I just didn't think I could make any money as a belly dancer!)

I guess what I am saying is that I agree that there is too much emphasis being put on performing and becoming professional. But I also believe that even in a "Fun and Fitness" class, some culture and history should be presented. There is balance.

{{{HUGS}}}

This whole thing of teaching to folks who have very different ideas of why they are in the class is a conundrum.

My classes are pure dance. Do folks get some exercise? Of course. I get some exercise. But it's not a fitness class and I work hard to word my promo materials so that this is clear. That said, of course I get people who are looking for a workout, albeit a light one. And, depending upon the lesson plan, they just might get themselves a moderate-to-heavy one!

All my beginner classes stress learning to isolate body parts so that those same body parts can later come back together to create lovely dance, so posture and positioning are key as is technique. I also emphasize the social dance aspect, and theatrical BD's roots in the social dance. I mention musical phrasing and musicality, as well as occasionally indicating the origin of music we're using, and some historical/cultural tidbits.

My goal with this is to provide sound training in posture and technique, and an introduction to musicality and culture, which is what everybody needs to continue the study of the dance, should they wish to do so. I actually tell folks that they are learning the dance as if they were going to continue on as dance students, while making the information as absorbable (is that a word? and sp?) as possible. And I want it to be fun!

I'd love love love to have a beginning class of folks who are there because they actually want to learn to BD in a serious way! I'd do the same technical stuff, but I'd talk alot more about music/musicality/culture in a class like that!

So, yeah, I'd like to offer a bit more "meat" early on in a beginning class, but I know my audience, so I keep the information part a bit lighter; folks who have a deeper interest always come to me with questions outside/after class.

Deborah

So a student goes to beginner class likes the dance but decides they just want to dance not be a performer or even advanced skilled dancer . What do you do with them ask them to repeat beginner class over and over ? Just asking ?

Originally Posted by azahara

So a student goes to beginner class likes the dance but decides they just want to dance not be a performer or even advanced skilled dancer . What do you do with them ask them to repeat beginner class over and over ? Just asking ?

My experience is that they self regulate. If you have basically open level classes and you, as the teacher, don't make it a big deal to "advance' the yes, they will choose to keep repeating. Also, if the teacher doesn't make a beginning class feel like, for lack of a better example, a group of lesser beings, chances are, the hobbyist will be happy to stay there.

But, that having been said, you also might want to have your intermediates be drop in so that some of these students who just want to have fun can challenge themselves every once in a while.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

My experience is that they self regulate. If you have basically open level classes and you, as the teacher, don't make it a big deal to "advance' the yes, they will choose to keep repeating. Also, if the teacher doesn't make a beginning class feel like, for lack of a better example, a group of lesser beings, chances are, the hobbyist will be happy to stay there.

But, that having been said, you also might want to have your intermediates be drop in so that some of these students who just want to have fun can challenge themselves every once in a while.

{{{HUGS}}}

Most teachers in dfw do not have open drop in classes unless you are already an advanced level dancer . You have a good point in not making it a big deal to advance , i feel teachers sometimes push dancers to be performers to sell more costumes and or validate themselves as good teachers .

Originally Posted by azahara

So a student goes to beginner class likes the dance but decides they just want to dance not be a performer or even advanced skilled dancer . What do you do with them ask them to repeat beginner class over and over ? Just asking ?

At my studio, we have a class called 'drills' that is open to anyone after they complete level 1. In that class, they get a good workout, drill technique and learn combinations. Students can party there for the rest of their lives and never hear the words 'performance' or 'audience' again.

The problem is there aren't many of these students. That class often has only 3 students in it, and those are often students from the other classes who want to perfect their technique.

I find that students in my higher level classes really enjoy performing -- as part of the group if not as soloists. i work hard to provide level-appropriate performance opportunities, dancing for family, friends and other dancers who are warm and receptive. Most of my students get quite hooked on the experience.

Originally Posted by azahara

So a student goes to beginner class likes the dance but decides they just want to dance not be a performer or even advanced skilled dancer . What do you do with them ask them to repeat beginner class over and over ? Just asking ?

Hmmm . . . I guess that's what happens!

It takes three-to-four five-week sessions with me to *get through* all the beginner material. Each separate session is stand alone.

Let's say that two of the movements I'm teaching in, for want of a better descriptor, Session 1 are the hip lift and the reverse (backward) figure 8. In that session, I hit all the variations that I think are beginner material on the hip lift, reverse figure 8, and the other movements.

Session 2 then emphasizes new movements and their variations, but usually also includes at least two of the emphasized movements/variations from the previous session. So, let's say that in this new session, both the hip lift and the reverse figure 8 from the previous session will be emphasized along with new movements/variations; I teach these two movements as they were taught before, from the most basic form into variations.

The third session will not have the hip lift and reverse figure 8 in it at all, but will include a couple of the movements from Session 2 along with new material, plus a couple of movements from Session 1.

And so forth. By completely revisiting a couple of movements from the previous session, those who were present at the previous session usually feel more confident about them during the new session and are starting to understand and execute them better. And of course, the new folks are getting the material for the first time.

So, yeah, the students just keep doing the same things over and over again, but it will take them almost 6 months to completely cycle through the material.

I have a couple of students who have been with me for several years; do they get a bunch of new stuff all the time? No. But they're in class for the fun and moving around and don't mind me taking their money for the privilege. I think the worst part of class for the truly dedicated is having to hear my jokes over and over again! ,s::

I don't emphasize performance at all in beginner classes, except to mention that everybody, including working pros, starts with the basics.

ETA: what else can we do with folks who are happy at the beginner stages? Beginning material is beginning material or, to borrow a phrase from a dance friend of mine: it is what it is.

Deborah

Thanks . good stuff for my brain to digest .

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Hmmm . . . I guess that's what happens!

I have a couple of students who have been with me for several years; do they get a bunch of new stuff all the time? No. But they're in class for the fun and moving around and don't mind me taking their money for the privilege. I think the worst part of class for the truly dedicated is having to hear my jokes over and over again! ,s::

Deborah

Such torture!

I do have to say, there is value for even the most advanced student to go back to beginners class. This last year I had 3 which I attended every week. Trust me, working on taking things back to s-l-o-w can be really, really hard. Technically challenging but rewarding because it helped to point up any place where I had gotten sloppy over the years. And the "beginner" girls would laugh along with me as I groused about doing walking figure eights to an eight count!

{{{HUGS}}}