Thread: Thinking out loud again...

I'm considering offering a 'Silver Sirens' class. I know some people have *really* objected to this idea before, but I've had several (like 4 or 5) beginners in their 70s lately, and they just aren't safe in my regular classes. They need more time to build abdominal tone, to learn to hold their basic posture, etc.

I would NOT set an age limit for the class -- it would be open to anyone who feels a little 'silver.' Women of all ages would still be welcome in my regular class (though I may on occasion recommend someone give the Silvers a try to see if they'd be happier there).

I mentioned the idea to my level 4 class, and at least one member (in her 60s) e-mailed me later & said she might want to 'go silver.' She feels out of place with the youngers sometimes, her body takes longer to assimilate information, choreography, etc.

I'm thinking the Silvers could eventually play the nursing home circuit.

Any thoughts?

Here we call it "Ladies" class, and the "Ladies" can be of any age but they are doing everything with more concentration on quality of movements, not to learn them fast. Our Ladies also perform but they take much more time to prepare, not one term, but can be three. I think the name of the class is very important so that it invites the right people, and we thought that being a "Lady" is a life style and attitude, not age depended. Also Ladies make their performance outfits themselves because they are used and capable to do more handicraft than the "shakira" group and have more time.

So I think you idea is worth of testing if you have enough "Silvers" who understand the concept.

OMG I call everyone ladies, like announcement before class "Ladies, we are about to start!" etc. I suppose the language of this is particularly bound up with your location.

Out here, I call everyone at the class "girls" ..l;, even though they may be 80+ years. For us, being a Lady means that you dance but do not sweat, you dance but you do not push your body too far, just as is easily goes, and you wear nice clothes
even for a class - the other classes may have swetty people around and may look red at the face and use the gym clothes, but not the Ladies...got it? it is a
definite style of workout.

I think it is a good idea Lauren, if only for safety's sake. It allows them to go at a pace suitable for their health/fitness, without feeling pressured to keep up. I don't think you should have an age limit, as some could be offended by the idea that they can't keep up, and rightly, as I've known some very fit "silvers"!

How are you thinking of wording the class description in ads (or however you advertise the classes)?

Perhaps it would be suitable not only for older dancers but for dancers recovering from injury or anyone that may need to take special care due to their physical condition.

I LOVE the Idea!!! LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT......My M.I.L. would never take my class becuse she doesnt feel like it is for her but she would be ALL over it with women her age!!! And she is actually REALLY fit and could handle more than most....

i've been toying with the idea of having a class for people over 45 or 50, because i get a lot of requests from women in that age category that dont want to be in a group with the 16-25y olds...
but i'm not sure yet...

I think it's a terrific idea!

Where classes are smaller, it's not feasible but if you have a lot of seniors wanting exercise classes, they probably would go for it! And are we talking daytime here 'cos of course we sirens of certain ages are FREE!!!!It makes sense
But I know many women like the mixed age set up and younger dancers often say to me, they like being with older gals they wouldn't normally socialise with so it may be the youngsters that lose out!
I don't know that pacing a class will be any easier as over 60s and over 70s even vary very much in their fitness levels. I'm not especially fit despite all the dancing but I meet younger women with less stamina every day!
But my friends who are bus pass carriers are all natural blondes..l;,
What's unatural about bleach? So silver sirens is not for us old gold tarts

I saw a dance troupe (not BD) appearing at a local community theatre and their name "Growing Old Disgracefully!" It's never to late to do something just a little risque..g.:

Originally Posted by Nat242

Perhaps it would be suitable not only for older dancers but for dancers recovering from injury or anyone that may need to take special care due to their physical condition.

I think this is a great idea - takes the age sticky wicket out of the issue.

Originally Posted by laura 2

I think this is a great idea - takes the age sticky wicket out of the issue.

I like that, too!

LizaJuk, I started out thinking of it as the 'golden girls of BD,' someone else suggested Silver Sirens. ..l;,

Sandy (I forget her Bhuz name) has a belly dance class in the Albany (CA) senior center. I think it was a real success- we went to one of their haflas, and they all had a great time performing.

I like it, Lauren!

At one location where I teach (and also have a day job, but I was teaching there first), we have senior lunches and a senior club.

I think this location would be excellent for a "Silver Siren" type of thing, and the morning would definitely be the time to do it. I've thought about it for awhile; unfortunately, I work until 3:00pm . . .

Deborah

I would be all over a class like that! I really do love my teacher, but the pace of her class is just a little faster than I can keep up with. It would be nice if we could work on the basic step more before she starts showing us how to turn it and take it backwards and do it in a circle. Just when I feel like I've almost got it she changes it on me. ..cr.:

I also know that not everyone is having trouble keeping up, and I don't expect her to bore the rest of the class to death on my behalf.

I would love to take a class where I knew the teacher was expecting students to go at a slower pace and where there was a focus on doing the moves safely or modifying them for those with physical limitations. Like uncoordination. ..l;,

Lauren, I love the idea, but do you have to call it Silver? Can it just be Bellydance Lite, and you can describe it as slower paced, low impact and perfect for those recovering from injury or just need more time to learn? That way your not limiting it to older people?

What's wrong with having a class for older dancers? I say it's brilliant.
Silver Sirens is an excellent name. Sultry and elegant! I LOVE it.
The idea of them doing the nursing home circuit is fabulous, truly! what a kick that would be for everyone watching.

I'm way more interested in watching people my age do something if I have the choice - 20 year olds can do things nimbly because they're frikkin 20! ;

But a 48 year old dancing like she's 20? now we're talkin!

I support Nat242's approach -- probably best to define it by pace rather than age. Otherwise you risk alienating two groups: younger people who need a gentler, more gradual approach, and fit older dancers who don't want to feel like they're being streamed out. By all means market it to older dancers, but why define it that way?

It's a bit like the yoga classes I've seen advertised as "Gentle" or "Restorative" -- perfect for people recovering from an injury, new to movement study, or who prefer a very cautious introduction.

Lauren, I think your idea is fine, but I am just thinking of another option.

What if you had some kind of core-building cross-training class for belly dance students with postural issues and weak cores. I'm thinking of something designed using belly dance movement as well as maybe pilates, (yoga?), and basic floor exercises for lower back problems. A class in which the whole hour would be drills that build ab strength safely, build thorac extension, stretch out tight backs and shoulders, that kind of stuff.

People could take it alone, as a prelude to your other classes, or maybe even concurrent to your other classes. This would address the problem that there are generally younger people that turn up who have postural issues and aren't very fit. Maybe you could give people more individualized attention in that kind of setting also. For example, some people may need to mitigate swayback problems, while others need to address hunched, rounded forward shoulders.

BTW i am envious of your student base. We can't seem to build one here. We only run two levels (beginning and continuing) and the continuing generally has less than 10 people.

Sedonia

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'm considering offering a 'Silver Sirens' class. I know some people have *really* objected to this idea before, but I've had several (like 4 or 5) beginners in their 70s lately, and they just aren't safe in my regular classes. They need more time to build abdominal tone, to learn to hold their basic posture, etc.

I would NOT set an age limit for the class -- it would be open to anyone who feels a little 'silver.' Women of all ages would still be welcome in my regular class (though I may on occasion recommend someone give the Silvers a try to see if they'd be happier there).

I mentioned the idea to my level 4 class, and at least one member (in her 60s) e-mailed me later & said she might want to 'go silver.' She feels out of place with the youngers sometimes, her body takes longer to assimilate information, choreography, etc.

I'm thinking the Silvers could eventually play the nursing home circuit.

Any thoughts?

I'm not anywhere near silver yet, but I think it's an awesome idea. Like you say here, they may feel like they are more with their compatriots in a class with themselves. Plus, costuming issues would come into play. Not that my mom is a bellydancer, but if she was, I know she would feel more comfortable in a beledy dress than a 2-piece. That way your silver set can wear flattering mature costuming and your teenyboppers or younger women can wear what suits them too. They also might have different taste in music than the youngsters. I bet you would attract more of the age group if you offered a class, because of the social aspect and people feeling less intimidated.

Sedonia, I think that's a great idea from a teachers' perspective. But I think very few of my students would actually spend their time & money on a second class that wasn't about dancing, and I actually think that's doubly true for the ones who need it the most, since they're often the least serious about their hobby.

I also think if I called it 'bellydance lite' or something that implied a gentler or slower-paced calss that would be more insulting to the potential students than Silver, wouldn't it?

*shakes head*

Seems no matter how I do it somebody isn't going to like it. But a few students were really excited about the idea, and one of them suggested Silver Sirens.

I'll have to give the whole thing some more thought.

I realize age segregation is a hot-button topic for me. I think we have far too much of it in our culture as it is, and it generally makes me uncomfortable. But if your students are specifically asking for it, I guess you might as well give them what they want!

I agree with you Annie, i much much prefer having a mixed beginners class, i enjoyed it myself when starting out, made some great friends that way, and got to know people from all walks of life, through dance...

but it's really, i'm getting loads of requests, this only just started last year, of people going "i'm 40something (!!!) so i think i'm too old for this, i'm really calling for my daughter"... and it's taking me a lot to convince them that no they are not.

sometimes they do come and take the class, but then they come and tell me that yes they enjoy it and wil come back, but they'd enjoy it even more, if there were "more people their age", as now they feel the odd one out. some of them stay for years but from time to time keep reminding me they'd prefer it if their were more people "like them". most people in class indeed are in their 20ties and early 30s. so i have been thinking that to reach the 40plus group, i might need to advertise specifically for them, and having a 40+ group might do the trick.

at the moment i always tell callers that my classes are mix age, from 16 till... my oldest student was in her 70ties... but that of course i cannot know before each series start what the average age will be, so if they dont want to be the only "mature woman" (doesnt sound so condescending in dutch, i actually say 'real woman' in dutch), they should bring a friend... i say exactly the same stuff to 16y olds, who often dont want to be in a group with 30 somethings, that they should bring a friend if they dont want to be the only teen.

but a "segregated" group... seems to be what people want

Originally Posted by Annie

I realize age segregation is a hot-button topic for me. I think we have far too much of it in our culture as it is, and it generally makes me uncomfortable. But if your students are specifically asking for it, I guess you might as well give them what they want!

In regards to segregation because of age, I will readily admit that I feel I would lose a lot by not having women of all age groups in my dance classes. The community and atmosphere would suffer, as would the performances, in many cases!!!

I think the main point of Lauren's idea (sorry for paraphrasing, correct me if I'm wrong, please! ,f:: ) is that physical constraints that may accompany age or, perhaps, injury, may make it safer and more enjoyable for those women to select a class that is geared towards their needs.

Perhaps (I know I've said this) "this class is geared toward those who feel a stronger focus on technique and strength/competence building will be beneficial due to their physical condition"

I would *really* miss some of the Sirens in my class, if they decided to go silver...but then I don't see why they would, because they're in the physical condition to handle the classes they're in, and they *kick butt!*

So much, I guess, depends upon the personality of the other students, whether they are welcoming and inclusive, or a bit cliquey. This will definitely affect whether or not someone feels comfortable with people in various their age groups. Also the atmosphere of the classes - is there a bit of chatter before and after classes, or is it get it, shimmy and get out?

The crucial factor here is safety and physical fitness. The Silver Sirens idea sounds like a very elegant way to ensure people with physical limitations enjoy the dance in a safe way and are given the opportunity to take the time to build up the muscles and fitness that this dance requires.

Whoa, am I a chatter box. ,r:; Sorry.

I don't think of it as segregating by age, my goodness! That's like saying that because there are Bellydancers of Color troupes and tribes, the bellydance world is segregated.
I think my regular class will still have a variety of ages in it. I have women into their 60s who do quite well in that class. (though I've had women in their 50's who would have been happier in a slower-moving class where they weren't surrounded by young girls, too)

Beginners after about age 70 generally seem to have different needs, but that's still a generalization and a lot depends on the individual. I have mostly over-70s in my gentle yoga class, but one woman in there is only 59 and I have two over-70s who do just fine in the regular class as well.

I think offering the class but not restricting enrollment in either group based on age takes it out of the 'segregation' realm and makes it just a choice.

I see absolutely nothing ageist or discriminating about the fact that I would be way happier in a class of women my age than a room full of 19 year olds.

First - 19 year olds usually annoy me with their usual chatter and interests; second - we're coming from two totally different places and life experiences and involvement - there's not much in common whereas in a class of 40 somethings - we share so much.

Most Studios here in Perth have a class and/or a troupe geared towards the older ladies ... but that doesn't stop anyone from participating in other classes if they choose and indeed some of the silver troupes have some younger ones with them. So no it doesn't give a feeling of segregation, just a bunch of people with shared interests getting together. It's not like, hey you are over 55 so you have to go to the oldies class now ... just people who want a different pace that's all.

Originally Posted by ssipes

Lauren, I think your idea is fine, but I am just thinking of another option.

What if you had some kind of core-building cross-training class for belly dance students with postural issues and weak cores. I'm thinking of something designed using belly dance movement as well as maybe pilates, (yoga?), and basic floor exercises for lower back problems. A class in which the whole hour would be drills that build ab strength safely, build thorac extension, stretch out tight backs and shoulders, that kind of stuff.

People could take it alone, as a prelude to your other classes, or maybe even concurrent to your other classes. This would address the problem that there are generally younger people that turn up who have postural issues and aren't very fit. Maybe you could give people more individualized attention in that kind of setting also. For example, some people may need to mitigate swayback problems, while others need to address hunched, rounded forward shoulders.

BTW i am envious of your student base. We can't seem to build one here. We only run two levels (beginning and continuing) and the continuing generally has less than 10 people.

Sedonia

I think this is brilliant! Can i borrow it?

Originally Posted by ssipes

BTW i am envious of your student base. We can't seem to build one here. We only run two levels (beginning and continuing) and the continuing generally has less than 10 people.

Sedonia

How long has your program been running? It took me forever to get enough people to regularly hold a second level.

Right now I have four levels, but it's really the old intermediate group (who've been around 18 months to 5 years, there are about a dozen of them) and the beginners. Finally had about 12 people move into level 2 and I just this session split half of those off into level 3 -- so pretty small classes in between the just-curious ones and the die-hards!!

I like the idea of the Silver Sirens even though i'm a young woman who enjoys being around older ladis. I don't get to interact with that many of the new students in my teachers classes but the older ladies in the company have taught me so much. I love to talk with them about men and everything else. I think thats my favorite thing about being in a dance company. so i guess as long as there is an opportunity for that it's fine. It's important for young women to get a perspective from elders.

I work at a contemporary dance studio where they have a "Mature Hot Women's" class. It has gotten alot of interest. So there is a need for it out there.

OK, I'm finally doing it!

I've decided to make this class open to levels 2 and up, so everyone will be together in level one. Then if someone likes it but wants things to be a little slower, they can take Silver Sirens instead of my regular Level 2 class.

Liza, I might steal the line you mentioned eventually as a subtitle: Silver Sirens: Growing Old Disgracefully.

Here's my first draft for a class description:

Bellydance: Silver Sirens ~ Students of all ages are welcome in ANY of my classes! But this class is designed for seniors or for anyone who wants to learn choreography at a more relaxed pace, spin less, and stay up off the floor.