Thread: Do you allow observers?

I generally don't

I got an e-mail from someone who wants to observe a class before she signs up. I told her I don't usually allow that, for the comfort of my students, but that I'm giving a free trial class this Thursday.

She has to work on Thursday and is asking again to observe a class. Now I feel a bit peeved, I just told her I don't allow that.

All my other students signed up without observing a class first. I think beginners feel awkward enough without spectators.

Am I being unreasonable?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I got an e-mail from someone who wants to observe a class before she signs up. I told her I don't usually allow that, for the comfort of my students, but that I'm giving a free trial class this Thursday.

Here's how I handle it: I have two prices for my classes - one price is a drop-in fee which is pay-as-you-come. The other is an entire-session fee, which basically amounts to "Pay for 6 classes, get 2 free." Students can pay either way. If someone isn't sure yet whether she wants to sign up for classes or not, I invite her to pay the fee for one drop-in class, and if she likes it enough to come back for the session, she can apply that to the price of the full-session fee.

This way, the not-sure person participates just like everyone else, and therefore doesn't make anyone else feel as though they are being watched. If you were feeling generous, you COULD say, "Since you couldn't attend the free trial class, I'll let you come the first night for free," but I don't think it's necessary to do that. Depends on how strongly you want to make a concession for this person.

Lauren,
I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. And it sounds like you made her a reasonable offer (free trial class); it's her own problem that she can't take you up on that.

I generally don't allow observers. The only exception is on rare occasions when a student has a family member they want to come watch them. (i.e. "mom's in town, is it OK if she watches me dance today?") But even then, I check with the other students in the class first.

Nisaa

no, you aren't. the only observers i have ever allowed are family members.. someone visiting from out of town. a mom watching a teenager. that kind of thing. and i have always been asked about it the week before- i ask the class, if they are ok with it, then fine.
she may just be stubborn, trying to get her way. or she could be putting her hope on the fact that you said "...usually don't allow that..."

Originally Posted by latriamou

no, you aren't. the only observers i have ever allowed are family members.. someone visiting from out of town. a mom watching a teenager. that kind of thing. and i have always been asked about it the week before- i ask the class, if they are ok with it, then fine.
she may just be stubborn, trying to get her way. or she could be putting her hope on the fact that you said "...usually don't allow that..."

Sharing a brain!!! ..g.:

we must have been typing at the same time lol

I would reiterate that observers are not allow b/c they make students uncomfortable. Offering a class on a drop in price is a good option but you or your current students don't need to go out of your way b/c she can't make it on Thursday. Geesh!! Some people expect everything to be handed to them!!

No- my general rule is, if you're in the room, then you take part in the class, even if it's only the warm-up. This is particularly important for my Beginners classes.

The only exceptions have been when I'm being officially observed, by my bosses, or the Adult Learning Inspectorate (I work in local authority adult education, and because we get Funding, we have to be monitored), or when an established student has injuries & can't actually dance, but still wants to participate and learn by watching.

No. The only times I've had observers in class was when they were specifically watching me teach (observation for Adult Ed, that sort of thing), or students who weren't able to dance through injury (not my fault!) but didn't want to fall behind. Other than that, if you're in the classroom, you're dancing!

Lauren, you don't sound unreasonable at all. If you thought you weren't going to get enough students to sign up it might be worth bending the rules but otherwise I'd stick to them.

Alright, thanks, I'll stick to my guns.

I don't do drop-ins at all. I run everything in 6-week sessions and each class builds on what we've already done. I get too frustrated with drop-ins having to start from scratch in the 4th week of the session, for instance.

I'm going to stick to my guns. If this woman has trouble following the procedures everyone else follows, then my gut says I need to NOT begin our relationship by bending over for her.

good for you to stick to you guns. I allow observers.
Mainly because the studios where I teach have large windows and anyone in the studio can sit outside the class looking in.

Another thing to consider is, if she's being this much... not really trouble, but kind of trouble, at this early point in your relationship, how demanding will she be once she knows you? Just my two cents, I taught for a little over 10 years and learned to watch out for ladies who were out of the ordinary demanding.

Good luck!
Siham

I agree with bea and emma, and have the same rule in my class. If you're there, you have to take part in the class. I will let someone ocassionally bring a friend or family member that's visiting from out of town, but they have to participate. I think if you let one person do it, you're opening the door for people to want all kinds of people in their lives to come watch the class, from their kids to their SO's.

IMO, class is not a spectator sport. When I was first learning, I took class at the YMCA in a room with a huge viewing window and I absolutely hated it. I'd be struggling along trying to do a move, look in the mirror, and see a whole bunch of people peering in as if we were an exhibit at the zoo. Needless to say, it messed with my concentration big time.

I think your instinct about not catering to her is a good one. She 's asking for special treatment right off the bat, and those types of students seem to continue acting as if the world revolves around them one they've joined the class. If she refuses to budge, you're best off with her not in your class.

Student standpoint: My teacher had allowed me to sit in for part of the class before I joined, but I do think I made it clear I was there to stay. I also needed to pick up my forms to officially sign up from her.

However, if she had said no observing, I would have gotten my forms and gone back home, enough said. By offering a free intro class, you are being more than reasonable. Give 'em and inch and they take a mile....stand firm.

If you are going to observe (rare exceptions only) you will participate. They usually have to be related to a student or belong to the fitness facility I teach out of. Otherwise. NOPE. Sorry.

Lauren, I agree with the others here: you made this woman a very nice offer, not her fault or yours if it didn't work out. You're under no obligation to do more.

I don't allow observers for the usual reason stated here: it makes students self-conscious to have someone watching them. I don't make any exceptions to this, even for visiting moms. Also, no drop-ins, unless it's a technique class. I don't publicize the option of drop-in, but will let someone do this if I'm asked. The drop-in rate is pricey -- $20 per class. And no drop-ins at all allowed for my choreography classes, since they're cumulative.

OK, I know I sound like a dance version of the soup nazi, but this works for me! If someone calls and gives me grief about my policy, I refer them to other teachers who allow drop-ins, observers, and "first class free."

I'm a no-drop-ins nazi too, Latifa.

As a student, and as a teacher back when I really HAD to allow them, I found it sooooo frustrating. You'd just start getting somewhere, building combinations or challenging movements, and suddenly here are five new students who need to learn basic stance and hip lifts. Grrrr.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'm a no-drop-ins nazi too, Latifa.

As a student, and as a teacher back when I really HAD to allow them, I found it sooooo frustrating. You'd just start getting somewhere, building combinations or challenging movements, and suddenly here are five new students who need to learn basic stance and hip lifts. Grrrr.

Not trying to convert you to my way of doing things, just responding to your comments about no drop-ins... My drop-in rates are usually paid by students who expect to miss 3 or more of my 8 classes due to travel or whatever. Often, they think they can come to the first 2-3 weeks, but perhaps can't come later in the session. For these folks, it's not disruptive to offer them a chance to pay for less than the full 8 weeks.

I would NOT let someone drop in who had never ever previously had a belly dance class show up in week 5 and expect me to dumb down what we're doing just for them. Instead, I would regretfully and politely tell that person, "Oh dear, I'm afraid you'd be so lost if you try to participate in tonight's class! You'll enjoy your first taste of belly dance so much more if you wait until my next beginner session starts on <date>. Here, give me your email address on this piece of paper and I'll email you a reminder message as that date draws nearer so you can join the class at the same time as others who are new to the dance."

Well, that makes sense.

My distaste for drop-ins dates back to my own early days as a student. For two years I never got to learn beyond the most basic movements because classes were ongoing, mostly on a drop-in basis, so every time we got beyond the most basic movements, three noobs would show up and we'd be back to 'this is your hip.'


Twas maddening.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Well, that makes sense.

My distaste for drop-ins dates back to my own early days as a student. For two years I never got to learn beyond the most basic movements because classes were ongoing, mostly on a drop-in basis, so every time we got beyond the most basic movements, three noobs would show up and we'd be back to 'this is your hip.'


Twas maddening.

Oh yes, I remember re-learning the first four phrases of a choreography every single week because of drop-in students. I think we only once went over the ending...mind you, I can remember those first four phrases even now!

Originally Posted by *maria*

good for you to stick to you guns. I allow observers.
Mainly because the studios where I teach have large windows and anyone in the studio can sit outside the class looking in.

I also work in a center where people in the hallways can easily observe the class. I don't mind observers, and those that actually want to stand/sit and watch a whole class are few and far between. I've never had anyone tell me someone on the sidelines made them uncomfortable, either (and I've been teaching about 25 of the 33 years I've been dancing); nor has anyone told me someone they know in the class was uncomfortable but afraid to tell me.

However, if someone shows up to observe more than one time in a semester, they get booted.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

My distaste for drop-ins dates back to my own early days as a student. For two years I never got to learn beyond the most basic movements because classes were ongoing, mostly on a drop-in basis, so every time we got beyond the most basic movements, three noobs would show up and we'd be back to 'this is your hip.'

Yeah, ongoing classes are subject to that sort of thing. That's why, as a teacher, I always offer 8-week sessions with a specific beginning, middle, and end. I've never had a problem with drop-ins showing up in week 7 expecting me to go back to basics just for them - instead, those folks drop me emails asking when my next session will start, and everyone is happy.

I understand your distaste for being thrown back to square one all the time - I used to be in a troupe that kept rehashing the very simplest choreographies over and over and over in every performance, because the troupe director kept letting beginners join whenever they wanted to, so we had to keep performing the choreos that they knew in order to include them. It got really tedious after 10 years.... eventually, she figured out that it was sufficient to give the newest members just ONE dance to do in a show, and let the more experienced dancers carry the rest of the show. Things got better after that.

Originally Posted by kat

I've never had anyone tell me someone on the sidelines made them uncomfortable, either (and I've been teaching about 25 of the 33 years I've been dancing); nor has anyone told me someone they know in the class was uncomfortable but afraid to tell me.

In my specific situation, the observers were generally not people who quietly and unobtrusively observed the class. There were lots of rambunctious childen and guys on the make, who would press up against the glass like we were fish in an aquarium. Sometimes they would imitate our movements (yes, the kids *and* the grown men) and then laugh hysterically. Since I could see all of this in the mirror, it was totally distracting.

Yes, I and several others complaned to the teacher about it. No, she never did anything about it.

Originally Posted by laura 2

In my specific situation, the observers were generally not people who quietly and unobtrusively observed the class. There were lots of rambunctious childen and guys on the make, who would press up against the glass like we were fish in an aquarium. Sometimes they would imitate our movements (yes, the kids *and* the grown men) and then laugh hysterically. Since I could see all of this in the mirror, it was totally distracting.

Yes, I and several others complaned to the teacher about it. No, she never did anything about it.

It's hard in a facility where you have lots of foot traffic passing by--I have no problem with going to the door and shooshing people away but I also don't want to disrupt the class by doing it too often! I remember one guy that passed by several times, each time finding an oh-so-subtle way to linger (tied his shoes, dropped his newspaper, etc.) I could see him, the class had their backs to him but could see him in the mirror. Finally we all did a pivot turn and blew kisses his way...the guy freaked and practically broke his neck scrambling to get away ..l;,

~~Kimahri

My god, woman, you are awesome ..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

Originally Posted by Kimahri

It's hard in a facility where you have lots of foot traffic passing by--I have no problem with going to the door and shooshing people away but I also don't want to disrupt the class by doing it too often! I remember one guy that passed by several times, each time finding an oh-so-subtle way to linger (tied his shoes, dropped his newspaper, etc.) I could see him, the class had their backs to him but could see him in the mirror. Finally we all did a pivot turn and blew kisses his way...the guy freaked and practically broke his neck scrambling to get away ..l;,

~~Kimahri

I luv it!!!!..l;,

I allow other women to observe the beginners class but I do not allow male observers. I haven't had anyone complain about having other gals watching so as far as I know it doesn't bother anyone.

The only exception to the no male observers is the press. My bosses have a bad habit of not letting me know until the last minute that one of the local tv stations or newspaper are showing up to do an article on the classes. The last time they called me the morning of a brand new class session to tell me that the local CBS news station wanted to do a quick piece about the classes and would be there to do a 5 to 10 minute interview before class.

Well what actually happened was that they showed up 5 minutes before class started, the gal doing the interview was actually going to take the class and the camera man was pretty much taping the entire thing. I have to give the students oddles of credit. Thier first class, a camera man filming the whole thing for a news story and they all came back the next week. I was floored because I thought it would have scared a few of them away.

no observers and no dropins nazi here.

not sure it's something for you, join one of the free trial lessons or paid introduction workshops...

exceptions are foreign dancers in the country on holiday, who want to join in some classes, students who were living abroad returning to belgium mid term, and mothers of minors for 10 minutes observing during the first lesson, and yes, the occasional visiting family member (although i try to discourage that too)

I very occasionally let people observe in one of my classes, because in that venue there are some seats that are so out of the way at the back that the observer isn't really noticed. Sometimes students will bring their children if they can't find a babysitter and as long as the children are quiet and sit at the back I'm fine with that. But I had one girl used to come along and she had to bring her little sister because she was 'babysitting' her. Then after a while a young 'cousin' started to come too, and then yet another unspecified family member. And they were chattering away and giggling and putting the students off. So they had to go ,m::

Also, in one of the classes where I don't usually allow observers, a student recently brought along her very aged and frail mum. She asked the first time if it was OK if mum sat down and watched during class and (softy that I am) I said yes, thinking it was a one-off. But now she comes every time. I find it intrusive and I feel I should speak to the student and say I don't really allow observers - it was just a favour the one time. But I feel a bit mean since she's presumably looking after elderly/frail mum and giving her an outing.

no drop ins, unless they are from another of our classes.we have then 6 day/nights a week.
we encourage a skepitc to watch 1 lesson.after that they pay, what ever they are doing.
z