Thread: Getting more out of workshops?

I'm not attending a regular class due to my schedule, so I attend as many workshops as I can, and work with instructional videos.

But I don't feel like I'm getting all I should out of them. A few hours with this instructor, a few hours with that one. I come away with a few moves or tidbits from each one, but it's not adding up to a cohesive dance education! And I'm not getting the feedback/correction I think I need.

I'm thinking I'll do better if I select a few instructors and take from them every chance I get -- even if I have to travel -- rather than it being such a random assortment. What do you think?

And Andrea2 just told me yesterday that one dance student she knows videotapes herself after each workshop (or each day of a weeklong) to record what she learned that day. I think that's an awesome idea!

Any other ideas for piecing together a dance education without a regular instructor? I wish I could do weeklongs, but I can't be away from my son that long.

Do you have a dancing friend? I think it sometimes helps to take workshops or watch instructionals with a friend - and you can swap notes afterwards. The friend can also pick out the things you might be doing incorrectly and not noticing, or pick out the techniques you may have forgotten. The video tape is a great idea.

The main thing that helps me gain more from workshops in general (and I'm in the same position as you, of having no regular classes, and relying on workshops for my continuing dance education) is having a strong sense of what areas I want to work on, so I pick workshops which I feel will improve my personal dance skills.

The main things that help me gain more from specific workshops are:

1. Making really good notes about the workshop, as quickly as possible after it. Effectively 1 do 3 levels of notes- the immediate, there-&-then notes during the workshop or that same day; writing the notes up longhand, to organise them, and fill them out, and make sense of the shorthand that one inevitably uses in those immediate notes; typing the notes up to store on my puter (and those notes also get stored on a private blog, so I'm backing them up online, and I could access them even when I'm away from my own computer.

2. Going over the workshop material with someone else who was there *waves to sunshine!* a little while later. This really helps to fill in the gaps.

3. Using the material which I have learned, in my dancing/teaching (see all the millions of threads we've ever had on bhuz about teaching someone else's stuff).

Hi - I video when I can. Helps better than written notes, as I find my self thinking "what on earth is a toe swivle with hits?" etc. in the notes. Kicking myself as I forgot to bring a video camera to the Yasmina workshops this past weekend. <kick> <ow!> <kick> <ow!>

Well that's highlighting important aspects of making sure you get the most out of the workshops- figure out the way you absorb things best, and the way you can record them best, for you.

I like to work new things into new choreographies. When I took very many workshops, I could create a new choreo that used for example elements of the 4 last workshops I had been to.
I just pick the movements or combos that I like best and then put them together.

At a point (after about 10 years of dance) I took a total break from workshops because I started feeling like I put more and more things into my head and couldn't really process it anymore. So I didn't take any WS for a whole year, instead I started to teach myself and went through my notes - that luckily, I had already typed down.
Like: "So, what do I know about veil dancing?" And then I would pack this into a veil workshop.

MEISSOUN

Lauren, I was right there with you. Workshops are great, but like you said, you don't get that feedback. Ive cut back on my workshops and have added private lessons to the mix. I think even if you only go to a PL once a month or every other month for an hour and a half, you'll see a big difference- Ive seen a HUGE difference in myself, anyway.

I've actually cut down on the variety of workshops I go to because I was finding that although it was interesting and useful to learn new combinations and to see different styles, I wasn't retaining enough stuff and I didn't think I was getting any coherent development of my dancing.

I had started to have regular private lessons with Serena Ramzy a while ago and I found that she really took my dancing to a new level. But I still felt there were some things I wanted to work on that I knew I couldn't get from Serena. However, I didn't want to just flail around going to loads of different workshops hoping to pick up what I needed.

So I decided to choose a few teachers who I felt would give me what I needed and go to their workshops and do privates with them wherever possible. So now I go to the Ramzys for musical interpretation and to polish and deepen any dances I'm working on. Then I follow Aziza wherever I can - doing workshops and privates and trying to learn as much as I can from her. I pay for the cost of airfares to go and study with Aziza by not signing up for every workshop going (which I had tended to do in the past) Finally, I regularly do privates and workshops with Yasmina of Cairo because I find the Modern Cairo style very difficult, so she challenges me and pushes me out of my comfort zone.

It's definitely helped me to focus my training. For example, when I go to an Aziza workshop I'm much more likely to retain what I've learned because I'm building on what I've learned already from her. Likewise Yasmina.

Having said that, I still go to workshops that really capture my attention - there was no way I was going to miss the Mahmoud Reda workshop recently for example. And when I host teachers (such as Princess Farhana recently) I really enjoy going to their workshops. But I don't expect necessarily to be able to use what I've learned in my dancing. If I do it's a bonus.

Oh, and yes, going through my notes from workshops with Bea as soon as possible makes all the difference.

Lauren,

Here are some of the things I do that have helped me get the most out of a workshop. Some of these are simply to help alleviate anything that will be distracting.

Avoid fatigue--get plenty of sleep, skip the late-night parties, use breaks as breaks, not shopping trips.

If possible, find out what the flooring will be, then bring a couple different pairs of approprite footwear so that you can support your feet and still move on the surface. I put gel innersoles in my jazz shoes and bring ankle and knee wrapes or braces with me just in case I need them. Better to be prepared than distracted by pain or soreness.

Learned this from some of hula dancers--Icy Hot is your friend. I keep it in my bag along with aspirin.

Take notes, of course. I use breaks to get a high protein snack (I usually bring these with me) and write notes or check notes I have already written. As others have mentioned, I rewrite my notes ASAP after the workshop and add things I remember but did not write down.

Take notes on the instructor's stylizations--the way they use facial expression, breath, weight changes, head tilts, etc. for expressiveness. Sort of getting a sense of the uniqueness of that person's style. Sometimes it is something I can use, sometimes not.

Review notes, choreography notes, etc, with another workshop participant. It is amazing the find the number of things that one person remembers or wrote down and the other didn't even hear or see. And vice versa.

I go to the buffet type workshops (multiple instructors) to see who I want to work more with. Then find weekend long workshops with that dancer.

If I can't get a good spot to observe the instructor, I try to position myself where I can at least see a dancer whose style and proficiency I am familiar with.

If the workshop is in a hotel, I stay at that hotel so that I can go up to my room during lunch and after the workshop and rest and review my notes and let it all seep in without distractions.

During the week following the workshop I go through the choreo or combinations learned a couple of times at least.

Most workshops I go to require overnight travel, so I try to get as much as I can out of every minute. That might mean listening to the music used during the workshop as I drive home. Helps the time fly by and gel what I learned.

Whew, thats enough!

Souzan

These are all great ideas! I have also had the problem described of not attending a regular class but not retaining as much as I wanted from a workshop.

I went to Yasmina Ramzy's workshop yestersay and really enjoyed the Mohammad Ali Street choroegraphy she taught, though I don't see myself actually using it, or even using elements from it -- it's just too IN YOUR FACE and the GP would NEVER understand it unless it were in a theatrical show and the program explained it well. Still, it was nice to do something so different for a change. But was it worth the price of the workshop?? Right now, for me personally I think yes, but only because I haven't been to many workshops lately I needed something to rev me up and get me motivated again. In all likelihood, probably any workshop from a skilled and motivated teacher could have done that for me though.

I like the idea of privates lessons and "following" one instructor. (I would certainly follow Jillina to the moon if it was the closest workshop she was teaching!!)

One thing I have done in the past is try to incorporate what I learned from the workshop into my classes the next week. Of course I give credit to the instructor, explaining to my class that I went to So-and-So's workshop last weekend and here are some of the things she taught. It helps me to at least process the information, as well as (hopefully) give my students a taste of other stuff out there. If one of my students took the workshop with me, all the better -- it's a review of the material for her, and she also can help me to remember what was covered. And I often have students say "I didn't get this... can we work or it or can you help me understand what I'm doing wrong?" And I try to make clear to students when there are certain moves that I don't feel like I've "mastered" but here's how they were broken them down and let's work on them together.

Sorry for the rambling post... I need caffeine!

I used to go to the Rakkasah weeklongs every year, which taught a little bit of everything by a wide variety of teachers. That can be good if you're looking to sample a taste of many different things, like a buffet, and it can open your eyes to stuff you might not otherwise have thought to try. It was probably the right thing for me at that point in time.

But my needs have changed since then. I now have very specific goals for things I want to focus on, and I will go only to workshops that fit those goals. I'll make the occasional exception to support a friend who is sponsoring something, but for the most part if a workshop doesn't suit the direction I want to take myself, I don't go.

I also agree with those who recommended private lessons. These are particularly helpful when you have something specific that you're polishing and you want another pair of eyes to look at what you're doing and help you tighten it up. My best experiences with private lessons have occurred when I've gone into them well-prepared, with clear goals for what i wanted to do, and communicated those in advance to the instructor. Obviously, it's also important to choose a coach/instructor who has the right skills/background to provide what I'm looking for.

Originally Posted by aazura

I went to Yasmina Ramzy's workshop yestersay and really enjoyed the Mohammad Ali Street choroegraphy she taught, though I don't see myself actually using it, or even using elements from it -- it's just too IN YOUR FACE and the GP would NEVER understand it unless it were in a theatrical show and the program explained it well. Still, it was nice to do something so different for a change. But was it worth the price of the workshop?? Right now, for me personally I think yes, but only because I haven't been to many workshops lately I needed something to rev me up and get me motivated again. In all likelihood, probably any workshop from a skilled and motivated teacher could have done that for me though.

I didn't know you were there - I need to figure out who you are now! I was the person who took three times to get the drum finale part and still didn't catch it. :-)
I sorta wish she had taught one of our Oum Kolthoum choreos instead but I have to admit that Bitgammen song is catchy. I loved doing the choreography - it's so rare that we get to really get down and dirty in belly dance - it was nice to have permission. But I will never do spread-legged shimmies in public!

I took more notes on the Yasmina workshops than I ever have before. Hopefully that will mean that it will sink in. I'll have to incorporate some stuff into my practice. A lot of the things she said were like Eureka moments for me where things that I had heard before or knew generally about - she made it crystal clear.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'm not attending a regular class due to my schedule, so I attend as many workshops as I can, and work with instructional videos.

But I don't feel like I'm getting all I should out of them. A few hours with this instructor, a few hours with that one. I come away with a few moves or tidbits from each one, but it's not adding up to a cohesive dance education! And I'm not getting the feedback/correction I think I need.

I'm thinking I'll do better if I select a few instructors and take from them every chance I get -- even if I have to travel -- rather than it being such a random assortment. What do you think?

And Andrea2 just told me yesterday that one dance student she knows videotapes herself after each workshop (or each day of a weeklong) to record what she learned that day. I think that's an awesome idea!

Any other ideas for piecing together a dance education without a regular instructor? I wish I could do weeklongs, but I can't be away from my son that long.

Totally know what you mean, Lauren! I've found the best instruction comes from private lessons versus workshop instructors. If an instructor you admire comes to town, maybe it'd be worth your while to request a private lesson while they're there?

For workshops, I just take a lot of notes where possible, and stick a voice recorder in the waist of my pants to make my own notes afterwards.

[QUOTE=Nepenthe;48376]I didn't know you were there - I need to figure out who you are now! I was the person who took three times to get the drum finale part and still didn't catch it. :-)
I sorta wish she had taught one of our Oum Kolthoum choreos instead but I have to admit that Bitgammen song is catchy. I loved doing the choreography - it's so rare that we get to really get down and dirty in belly dance - it was nice to have permission. But I will never do spread-legged shimmies in public!
[QUOTE]

Ok, I remember you! I was the one in a turquoise crop top and black pants (hmmm... I think we all wore black pants, didn't we?). I was to your left, I think.

Yeah, enjoyed the choro very much. Loved the attitude in it! The song is still in my head this morning!And yes, it's fun to have "permission" to be a little raunchy sometimes . Though I agree, the spread eagle shimmies were a little much.

" A few hours with this instructor, a few hours with that one. I come away with a few moves or tidbits from each one, but it's not adding up to a cohesive dance education! "

That's what i did when i left my old dance school, and started on my own

"I'm thinking I'll do better if I select a few instructors and take from them every chance I get -- even if I have to travel -- rather than it being such a random assortment. "

that's what i've been trying to do the last two years, (i've been stalking aziza (waves)), i've started going to germany for Leyla's teacher training, so i'm taking lots of workshops with just those two, and i'm finding it much easier to really work on specific areas of my dance that way.
what i really want now is someone to take private classes from, but alas there is noone around really..


i've become much more picky, but then when i find something i really want to do, i'm willing to travel further and spend more money..

Lauren:

First -- everyone has given you good input, so my little bit isn't so much as to the "how to get more" as to the why are you attending.

Like you, my class schedule/performing schedule plus my day job and home life, leave little time to take regular classes (which would, anyway, require an approximate 2 hour round trip). Although this summer has been a disaster for trying to get to reasonably close-by workshops, I usually try to go to as many as possible. However, I'm not looking for critique, or for performance opportunities, and often, not even looking for continuing education prospects -- what I'm looking for is two fold:

1. I want inspiration -- that little spark that gets my creative juices going either "again" or in a new direction. That can come from the most unlikely of seminars!

2. I want community -- I love all my students, but few of them share the passion I have for the dance, and even with those few, I need outside-my-own-group contact. I want to discuss what the dance scene is like in other parts of the state or country or even the world. I want to see other dancers' interpretations of a specific style. I want to see and hear about experiences, about problems, etc. (ah -- sounds like a Bhuz fix, doesn't it!,r:; ),

At this point in my dance life (and I'm quite a bit older than you remember.w.: ), those things, rather than learning something new or retaining choreographies or combos, are what keep me registering and going to seminars. The new styles, historical/cultural information, new combos, critique, etc. -- that's icing on the cake for me.

Kat, you're not that far away from me, are you? Maybe we could meet in the middle sometime for a hotel slumber party -- videofest -- Bhuz Live session.

I'm not big on taking workshops unless it is from someone who is dancing the style I want to incorporate or dance. I just don't take workshops for the sake of taking a workshops, it has to have the substance I'm looking for. If it says choreo in it. I don't take it. When I look for workshops I will tend to take it from the same Instructor consistently to help get that coheisiveness of that particular style.

I read in the book, Advice for dancers, that many dancers especially late starters like me fail because they do not focus on one particular style or technique. They do a little of this a little of that and end up in a jumble trying to fuse them together when they haven't even learned enough to fuse them coheisively. You need to master one before learning another. I believe that goes for stylization of a particular dance or performer.

I look at a particular dancer, study their history watch their videos and go to them for private study. In October I am planning on taking privates from a new Instructor for me who lives 175 miles away. Cause of distance we will be booking triple sessions in one day. Kinda like a mini workshop soley focused on me and my needs. Its a better bang for the buck...g.: She is an Egyptian dancer, is level 2 SSSD certified and it is in line with my current training, and will allow me to incorporate Suhaila technique to my current Egyptian training becuase that is what she is good at.

I say find an Instructor even if you have to travel. book a mini private workshop and stay consistent with that instructor. Once a month two or three hours privates are well worth it when distance is the problem.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Kat, you're not that far away from me, are you? Maybe we could meet in the middle sometime for a hotel slumber party -- videofest -- Bhuz Live session.

Probably about an hour or so to midpoint for both of us. I think you're in Illinois in the St. Louis area and I'm in the Lafayette (Purdue University) area. How's that for "about" directions?..l;,

Sounds like a plan -- and I think there are other bhuzzards in the general area between, too, so we could make it a real multi-room, might need a suite, slumber party!

That would be AWESOME!

Great advice Souzan.
Tammy

I agree working with the same instructor over an extended period is best. I no longer bother attending bitsa festivals with an hour here a couple of hours there (unless I want to check out some thing/one that has piqued my curiousity). My minimum is 2 solid days with one person.

At the other end, I don't process much more than about 12 days input a year.

During the workshop, I make sure I get a good cardiovascular warmup before the instructor arrives (too late once they arrive to find out they don't need one themselves!) - this not only gets the body prepared but "study have shown" you remember more if your body has a proper warmup.

Drink lots of water.

Cool down.

Within 30 minutes get 40g of protein and some carbs into you - otherwise it can take over 48 hours for your muscles to recover and you need them the next morning for the next session.

Go over the work as often as you can as soon as you can. At the Winter Warmup we work in the breaks, lunchtime, after class and where possible before going to sleep. We follow up by keeping in touch (we are from all over Australia and New Zealand) for the few weeks afterwards. Helps it stick.

Personally, I dance until it is in my muscle memory then take notes after. I also video others in the "group" during breaks and purchase the "official" video - which includes stuff by the teacher.

Lauren, just wanted to say this is a great topic and I'm learning a lot! I'm glad you brought it up, it's something that's been on my mind too. :)

Thanks, Joanne, I'm glad I started it too! I'm really pleased with what everyone's posted, this has been a great thread for me.