Thread: troupe, from student to pro...

Hello,

as some have you read here, or on my LJ/tribe, we are making an effort to "upgrade" our troupe. untill now we had a small group of pro-dancers (about 4-6), and a large intermediate to advanced level student troupe. the pro dancers rehearseds together on an unregular basis (whenever there was a gig), the student troupe had it's rehearsals in preparation for specific gigs, but never anything really organised.

we have a huge gig coming up, that will need all my dancers, and i've decided to take that as an opportunity to get our so far very "informal" troupe sorted out, including a contract, weekly rehearsals outside of class time, buying costumes, and actively looking for gigs (festival circuit AND paid)... we have a meeting about all this wednesday where we will discuss the contract, rehearsal shedule, costuming issues etc.

now, for the student level gigs we did last year, i had about 30 studens, i think about 25 them are coming back to class this year. about 5 of those are lower intermediate and know this, so i havent even invited them to the troupe meeting and i'm hoping they understand. i've also not invited students who have not been studying with me for very long, or who are coming back after have taken a long (baby) break and i dont know their current level. I've reassured everyone that i will also still be doing "student" gigs, with those that want to, just as always, so not being in the troupe does not mean they never get to dance...

But i also have a few (intermediate to advanced) students, who have been dancing for years, who are good student level dancers, but for a variety of reasons (technique, posture, lack of polish, etc) very much NOT ready for this pro gig, or any other pro gig in the near future. They are very welcome to join the troupe and the rehearsals, but i cannot possibly book them into any paid gig. festival gigs would be fine.

hmm, writing this down already helped me a lot. I'm just really really really dreading having to tell them/having "the talk", i dont want to hurt them, i dont want them to give up, they often have worked very hard. Untill now i have NEVER had to tell a student "no, you cant perform". How the hell do you do that without hurting them. I guess this is one of the reasons i was holding back on this whole troupe thing. I liked us fine just the way we were functioning, professionalising (which is also being very exciting, i'm so looking forward to rehearsing and performing and creating new group numbers) is opening cans of worms i'm not sure i'm ready to deal with, including also dealing with age and size issues... but that's another post.

so i guess i'm realising the contra's for being a pro troupe. any advice or commiserations?

No advice, but I've got tons of commiseration!

I've thought about these issues myself. For now, I've chosen to stick with a 'repertory group' that has a no-cut policy. Everyone's in, though making people sign up for two weekly classes ensures that it's only the more committed students.

We've only been offered one pro gig, and if that hadn't fallen through, I would have asked the members to audition for the gig. It's only fair to a paying client, IMO, to be selective. That would cover technique/choreo/lack of practice issues, but age and size -- ugh. Double ugh.

:sticks head in sand and pretends these issues don't exist:

Originally Posted by Lauren_

:sticks head in sand and pretends these issues don't exist:

yep, that's where i've been so far, and i'm really dreading looking up...

This is really tricky stuff. I think Lauren's solution of sticking one's head in the sand is quite appealing . . .

My closest experience with this situation is a class I call "coaching and choreography." It's a tiny class. We work on technique that I wish to introduce or drill because it's needed, but we mainly work on technique issues brought up by the students themselves. We also learn a brief choreo that is designed for a particular performance.

Like your situation, Lauren, nobody is cut from this choreo, and it does require a few extra rehearsals outside class. Is everyone's skill level reasonably equal? No, even though they've all been taking lessons for roughly the same amount of time. Would I take this group on even the BD festival circuit? No, although we have done a few low-key dance party/hafla things and enjoyed it very much.

I think if I was to start a high-level group, perfectly adequate for paid gigs, I would do it by audition only. It evens the playing field and takes some of the subjective-ness out of the process. By all means, give the notices to the most advanced classes; by the same token, don't give notices to classes where the overall dance skills are not up to par.

Keep no secrets. Don't justify your reasoning for your audition/selection procedures. However, if someone auditions and doesn't make it, she might ask why; you need to be ready with concrete answers, so it's best to have some type of audition evaluation on which you make honest, brief notes about technique, musicality, showmanship, etc., remembering that not all the dancers who audition will have highly developed soloist skills, but might do well in a group.

Can you tell I've been thinking about this? I am considering starting a company of very good dancers who want to dance with other very good dancers to rehearse for and perform at a particular dance event or two.

Here is the strategy I have developed thus far:

Auditions are in two parts in one day (probably will have 2-3 separate dates for auditions): part one is brief solo to show individual technical skills, etc; part two is learning a couple of short combos as a group. Prior to beginning the dancing, auditionees (is that a word???) will have to sit through a brief description of why the group exists, the expectations for the group, etc. This info will be available in advance of the auditions, too.

Within a week or so of the audition, auditionees will receive in the mail a letter offering a position within the group or, sadly, a letter of thanks for auditioning, but lacking the offer of a position. Those receiving an offer will sign and return an agreement that spells out in quite a bit of detail the expectations for rehearsals and performances, costuming requirements, costs, etc.

The group I'm considering is not made up of my own students, necessarily; I will be holding open auditions, which is a bit different from only using one's own student base.

Deborah

As usual, I find myself nodding my head constantly while reading Deborah's post!

So the whole school could be notified that a troupe is being formed and that everyone in level (whatever) and above is welcome to audition. No secrets, and lower levels have something to work toward.

I love the 2-part audition. AFA appearance being an issue, what if the audition scoring criteria included a certain number of points for appearance topics -- and what if the scoring rubric was made available beforehand so people could choose whether they're willing to be evaluated in that way at this time?

Honestly, the GP is going to be evaluating you by a much more stringent set of criteria for physical appearance than your instructor would ever dream of. These issues are SO difficult, because we love the fact that our classes and, hopefully, our haflas offer loads of acceptance and help build women up. None of us wants to be part of tearing them back down by saying they're not good enough/attractive enough to go pro.

But there's such a huge dividing line between the community (haflas, workshop shows, classes, some showcases) which generally IS warm & supportive IME, and the entertainment industry, which is so NOT.

Members of the GP, even at unpaid gigs like festivals, sometimes have no qualms about calling out the most insulting statements DURING a show. I feel an obligation not to mislead my dancers, not to keep them in a bubble, not to take them into a situation where they might get hurt VERY badly. But I'm not always sure how to balance that with providing the warm, nurturing environment I wan to provide.

Personally, I'm just now feeling like I can pursue GP work again, after losing 20 pounds. And even at that, being a bit older, I'm not going to put myself out there willy nilly. 60th birthday parties, classy restaurants, yes. 21st birthday parties, hot spot restaurants that draw a mostly youthful trendy crowd -- no.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

As usual, I find myself nodding my head constantly while reading Deborah's post!

So the whole school could be notified that a troupe is being formed and that everyone in level (whatever) and above is welcome to audition. No secrets, and lower levels have something to work toward.

I love the 2-part audition. AFA appearance being an issue, what if the audition scoring criteria included a certain number of points for appearance-related issues -- and what if the scoring rubric was made available beforehand so people could choose whether they're willing to be evaluated in that way at this time?

<Deborah nods head vigorously>

Absolutely make the criteria available beforehand! It allows folks to self-evaluate and allows them to choose whether they wish to be evaluated in a particular way for a particular trait or skill, just as you posted, Lauren.

Deborah

euh, well, the reason i havent gone the audition route: these are so far all my own students/teachers/dancers... many of them have been for YEARS.

and for this term, and the upcoming gigs, i'm not opening up the troupe to any that arent, as we have so little time and need to work based on choreo's they allready now, and i need people where i know how far i can take them during the course of the next two months. we are not starting a new troupe, we are trying to take an existing one, just one (or make that three) steps further. so, really i KNOW what they can do and i know before hand who'd make the cut and who wouldnt... so, putting them through the stress of having to "audition", i dont know, seems kind of pointless to me at this point? also, because i still want to have a place for those people that are ok for hafla's, festivals, etc, but maybe not for paid gigs.

the idea i'm toying with now is to have a troupe "a" and a troupe "b", and for this upcoming BIG gig, some of the best dancers of troupe "b" will be asked to perform with us.

how does that sound?

wow, this is hard.

That sounds reasonable. There's still going to be some awkwardness & unpleasantness over who is an A and who is a B and why, but I'm afraid that kind of unpleasantness can't be completely avoided in starting a pro troupe.

You're right, I think Deb & I both started thinking more about what WE would be doing (starting a troupe) than where you are (converting one). I can see your point about auditions being redundant.

It sounds like a big mess that I'm glad I don't have to deal with...g.:

but if your only going to have the best of troupe b perform and not the rest of troupe b expect a lot of fall out. I suggest if they are good enough for the pro troupe. hold an audition an just let those best become part of the pro troupe. I think that less feelings will be hurt by this process instead of saying your good enough for troupe b but not good enough for pro troupe.(did that make sense?) uhg! Then you have to deal with those who want pro troupe but only for this performance? Why not good enough for all the time with the pro troupe?

Another way that might help out is size. Say you only want a troupe of such and such size and openings are limted to size....

Its a sticky situation... I do not envy you... expect to loose students over this.. I've watched it happen in the best of tribal troupes that have the same issues and have been established for a long long time... That is why they went to the formal audition route for any and all troupes.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

euh, well, the reason i havent gone the audition route: these are so far all my own students/teachers/dancers... many of them have been for YEARS.

The idea i'm toying with now is to have a troupe "a" and a troupe "b", and for this upcoming BIG gig, some of the best dancers of troupe "b" will be asked to perform with us.

how does that sound?

wow, this is hard.

Actually, I have had experience with such a troupe and found it to be fine (at least it was for me).

Troupe A: most members had been together for at least a decade; some for 20 years or more! No one was taking regular classes with the director (or anyone else), although some got coaching from her; however, all had been students at the time the troupe was formed.

Troupe B: although not necessarily designed to be, it became, in effect, a "feeder" troupe. All new folks started here, even the most experienced dancers.

There were no auditions; it was by invitation.

I started with Troupe B when it was first formed. Most of the dancers were students of the director, but I was not.

We had separate rehearsals with different choreos; the only time the two troupes were on the stage together was the big "bow" at the end. We always had at least two rehearsals where the troupes came together to get the staging right for entrances and exits.

As time went on, some members of B were asked to join A for special numbers within a performance, but othewise were still members of B. Then some members of B were "moved up" permanently.

I think something like the above might work for you, Artemisia. Your "pro" group already exists and you can pick and choose whom you think would do best in the "pro" choreo from the intermediate/advanced group whenever you want/need to increase the number of people for a particular "pro" performance, but they would otherwise remain in the int/advanced group.

Are you planning an arrangement for the upcoming BIG show where you have some large group pieces for "everyone" and some small group pieces with the "pro" level dancers?

Whatever you decide, it'll be tough; but it's also your name and reputation on the line, so you need to do what's best for your business, while still acting like a human being and treating your students as if they are, too.

Deborah

I'm afraid I have nothing useful to add to this except to give Artemisia a big cyber-hug on a very tricky issue. And to say thank you for starting the thread. I'm thinking of starting a high-level pro troupe amongst my own students and this thread is sooooo interesting and useful - it's giving me loads of food for thought.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

hmm, writing this down already helped me a lot. I'm just really really really dreading having to tell them/having "the talk", i dont want to hurt them, i dont want them to give up, they often have worked very hard. Untill now i have NEVER had to tell a student "no, you cant perform". How the hell do you do that without hurting them.

It sounds like you have worked it out a bit. But I really don't understand your comment above - honestly I think any student who *expects* to be asked to perform in a show is off track. I'm trying to image doing that with my teacher, and just can't - how would they get the idea that they were automatically participating in a show? I don't get it.

I think honesty is the best policy. If some students arent being asked to perform, just tell them why. Tell the dancers what they need to work on and improve. Its nothing personal, its just business, so put on your business hat. If its a pro troupe, then you need to keep a business focus. Explain to them what being Pro entails. Like Lauren said, its not the warm fuzzy world of the ME crowd, its the harsh reality of the Entertainment industry. Different rules apply.

Sure, some feelings might get hurt, but the same thing happens when people get passed over for promotions in an office situation. Like Deborah said, you need to do whats best for your business. You might lose students, the ones who feel "entitled" to be pro when in fact they aren't good enough - but being honest and giving them something to improve and work on should mitigate that.

Its hard, yes, but you can do it. The harder thing would be having students perform who are not ready, and having clients complain. Thats much worse, IMO.

Our dance company members start out as apprentices and grow towards full members. We use a contract to make sure that everyone agrees, at least when they start, as to what the common goals and responsibilities are. As time goes along things become more complicated, of course; choreographies get more demanding, performances become more numerous, company standards get higher, some dancers surge ahead in skill, upsetting the existing balance of power and relationships. Some with strong talents and love for dance may become bitter ex-members because they couldn't have the niche they felt they deserved... this is not for the faint of heart. You really need to WANT to have a dance company to make it worth the time and heart ache. You'll never get it 'right' - but you may do some fine work.